ClipperFan
-
Posts
1,961 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Events
Everything posted by ClipperFan
-
Rob, I've been debating whether I should point this out to you. In light of Ron's most recent critique, I figure I might as well go ahead and let you know my most recent observation. Unfortunately it's noticeable and is a pretty big departure from Glory's actual appearance. While the actual vessel has Carriage House spindles that cant slightly inward, or are vertical, the ones on your beautiful house do the opposite, they cant outwards, which gives an odd appearance. The very familiar pic of the Ship's boy which has a really clear view of the stanchions also shows that they tilt slightly inwards. My sketch of the front facade (which still needs corrections to the outer ends) shows how the eleven stanchions were originally arranged. Note that the two outermost pairs tilt inwards just a little more than the others and they're closest together. Interestingly the spacing isn't consistently the same either. As best as I can tell the distance between the two outermost stanchions is 1.5', then the distance between the next three is 2.75, finally the space between the inner three is 2.5'. I realize it would be a real bear to undo these railings, because it's a really clean installation but I felt you'd at least appreciate an honest evaluation from a friend.
- 3,560 replies
-
- 1
-
-
- clipper
- hull model
- (and 2 more)
-
Rob, Perhaps you haven't noticed what I've repeatedly said about your model in particular. Even with the barely noticeable lower naval hood and howes hole placement, I still feel your particular model is the most faithful replica in existence today. Believe me, you have nothing to apologize for.
-
Rob, No surprise, I'm in 100% agreement with you. From painstaking recreation of Glory's Wheelhouse, including comparing moulded spaces to windows, I've concluded that this original structure was most likely 15 feet square, not the original 12 foot x 10 foot dimensions I first calculated and which is how I represented it on my large sketch. Then there's the matter of Glory's figurehead, which now is just a little too far out, as is her naval hood and cutwater. In all fairness, to be honest before this sketch can be submitted, those mistakes should be corrected. The most painful will be erasing and repositioning all her bow components, especially her figurehead which I'm very happy with as she sits now. However, correcting this slight position will revise everything. I'm not ready to tackle that now but I'll keep you informed.
-
Rob, This fascinating conversation highlights what has been an underlying challenge all along. In effect, trying to recreate two dimensions in order to get accurate measurements from three dimensional images. You're right, that I missed following the bands all the way to the very bottom and it now appears her forehead is just a little closer to band #3 then being midway between the two.
-
Rob, I agree that #3 band's bottom edge appears to touch the rear of 'Athene's' hair bun. My reference is to the tip of the crown on her forehead. Drawing a verticle from that point I find it's half way between bands #3 & #4. It also appears to me like the rear edge of band #3 aligns with the tip of the Naval Hood below. This looks intentionally designed and it's how my sketch of Glory's bow was precisely crafted. Regardless, I think the bigger win in all of this was that Ron didn't find any fault with the rest of your Glory model.
-
Rob, It must be a matter of observation. I could swear 'Athene's' forehead and crown rest about half way between band #3 & #4. No matter, if the only item OZ Shipwright Ron Haug can find fault with is a slight discrepancy in her Naval Hoods that means to me that the rest of your Hull is acceptable to him, which in a back handed way is high praise indeed!
-
Rob, What's immediately noticeable is that the base of your Naval Hood is deeper than the bulkhead height above it. Since the external depth of the main bulkhead above is 4 feet and the Naval Hoods are 3 & 1/2 feet they're 6" narrower than the height above. Again, I apologize for not pointing it out but I didn't want to be nit-picking your work. It's still beautiful, even with this minor mistake and until someone does a more precise job, it's the best representation of Glory's bow I've ever seen. My dilemma is in trying to help you identify inaccuracies without seeming to hound either one of you.
-
Rob, Having made those observations about a Modeler's slight errors, I still want to emphasize that your bow treatment, slight inaccuracies included is still the most accurate and beautiful of any model I've ever seen. Especially your Goddess 'Athene' figurehead. She's a marvel to behold in miniature. You have a lot to be proud of.
- 3,560 replies
-
- 1
-
-
- clipper
- hull model
- (and 2 more)
-
Rob This is in my observation, just beautiful, clean consistent work. I love how neat and organized your build looks as she progresses along. About Mike's latest email. I finally was able to view Ron's critique and his observations about the Naval Hoods and Cutwaters are correct. I would also add from my initial observance at the time that the Naval Hoods too were a little short in comparison to Glory herself. Maybe I should have spoken up. At the time I was reluctant to do so, out of a concern of sounding too picky. It's a bit of a tightrope walk, especially since I'm keenly aware that I don't do any modeling myself at this time. My goal has always been to aid you and Vladimir to construct the most accurate versions of Glory possible.
-
Rob, I haven't been able to open up the image Mike attached to his email yet. I can say this though. Our research in regards to Glory's bow, naval hoods, cutwater and figurehead dimensions was meticulously accurate. That's because working with known dimensions, the Bowsprit being 24' inboard of her cap and her figurehead being exactly 90", you and I were able to precisely calculate exact distances of these interrelated devices. Glory's Goddess 'Athene's crown aligns perfectly in the center of Bands #3 & #4 above on her Bowsprit. Since the band #1 is 18" outboard and the rest of the bands are exactly 3' apart, we can calculate that her figurehead projects 9' outwards. The tip of her Naval Hoods terminates at band #3, 18" shy of 'Athene's crown, making her Naval Hoods project 7 & 1/2' outwards. I'd have to see an exact Starboard broadside of your model to see if it exactly matches this crystal clear photo but besides that, I have never seen a more faithful reproduction of Glory than yours.
-
Rob Thanks for the vote of confidence. One thing I'm continually learning as I mature (as if we ever do) is to ditch "false humility." It does nobody any good to be ashamed of a talent. As I'm sure you've noticed, I can be quite verbose sometimes. Which may or may not be a good thing. Anyways I'm beginning to think of this next step of our project as possibly being a 2-parter. One to incorporate all of our advance work on correcting Glory's hull and a second installment upon the completion of your entire Glory build.
-
Rob What I've always admired about your work is how neat and precise it always is. Your long house is another excellent example of that highly professional attitude you display towards your craft. Well done indeed.
-
Vladimir, Such a lovely tribute to "GLORY of the SEAS" with your recounting of her exciting launch. It's almost as if I was there myself, hearing the laughing of the gulls circling overhead, the crisp fall smell of the salt sea air and the feel of the magnificent Hull as she gained speed and finally the noble strength of the vessel as she proudly floated free in the natural habitat she was born to live in. Sadly she's long gone, lost in a funeral pyre, victim of short sighted neglect and business exploitation. Yet her indefatigable spirit lives on in the intrepid efforts of those of us inspired to resurrect her true beauty in numerous, exacting sketches and now in two wonderously unique scale replicas. Vladimir, you and Rob have done magnificent work. I am proud and honored to be associated with you both. For whatever personal reason you have for wanting to sell your amazing creation, I encourage you to have a little patience. Eventually I plan on following Michael Mjelde's advice and write an article for Nautical Research Journal about the incredible journey we have all taken in our painstaking efforts to bring Glory back to life. Mike even suggested Rob and your models be featured in this work. Such exposure should only heighten the asking value of your production. For that matter, I would also be willing to contact J Russell Jinishian, owner of the Maritime Art Gallery, Stonington, CT. Maybe he would be willing to work with you too. Years ago, he established The Mystic Maritime Art Gallery, in fact I believe he was the initial curator. I believe you deserve to be fairly compensated for such a lovely piece of artisan's work.
-
Vladimir, I believe those horizontal bars function as reinforcements for the long narrow house as well as being major supports for the sculptured roof which would mount above them.
-
Rob, your long house is a great example of how to construct a solid building. Great modeling work.
-
Rob, You're correct. My memory was faulty. I double checked the stats in the MacLean article. The long house was indeed 18' wide, not 24'. The other two dimensions 54' long × 8'3" high I remembered correctly. Oh well, two out of three ain't bad. My apologies for the confusion.
-
Vladimir, the height above deck was 3' with the rail height being 6" less. At least that was my best estimate. I think you'll feel much better once it's corrected. Some beauty shots will be much appreciated, especially if you can match those that Mike has sent us of Glory herself.
-
Vladimir, your overall shots confirm the impressive beauty of your build as well as your dedication to reproducing a very accurate representation of Glory herself. Michael Mjelde likes my proposal of writing an NRG article describing how we are carefully recreating "GLORY of the SEAS" through our introspective evaluation of the many rare, unseen photos he's shared with us. In light of this, I think having comparison shots where the models are in identical positions as the historic photos, so observers can see how accurately your work has been done.
-
Rob, Happy 37th Anniversary!!!! Definitely have an epic celebration!!!!
-
Rob, nice start. From the overview you've shared, it's clear that this was a very large structure. I'm going by memory. As far I can recall this long house was 54' long × 24' wide and 8'3" high. From the few pictures available, this structure was far more plain than the more ornate Carriage House. There were similar embellishments between the upper windows but the lower section was unadorned. The same roof treatment is apparent as the Rear House. The doors definitely appear to be all sliders.
-
Vladimir, your model is shaping up quite nicely. I agree with Rob, your coppering job is first rate! That you did anything different with the sidelong Carriage House rail stanchions isn't even noticeable. My only bone of contention is the rear Companionway is too short. I'm sure you agree. Maybe you could lop of the top, insert a section and reattach the top to make it just high enough for the rear rail to attach to it. Of course, this is just a suggestion, it's your model, not mine, so you decide what you feel most comfortable with. The rest of your Glory is top shelf. I particularly appreciate the over all scenes of her busy deck. As for the chicken coop over the main hatch. I've read that as soon as a vessel was underway, the ship's carpenter would raise structures over all the hatches to store livestock, sometimes including even cows! Rob's right that at launch the structure wouldn't be on yet. Again it depends on what you feel comfortable with as it's nobody's model but yours and it's already a beauty.
-
Rob, nicely done!
-
Rob, I don't think anyone is trying to fault you. It's more about reassuring observers that the actual vessel is correct vs a modeler's efforts to duplicate it. Besides that though, did you ever think, when you began this project over a year ago now, that anyone would be so interested that they would be questioning ladder risers?
-
Vladimir, when you noticed how tiny your figurehead was you were right. Comparing where the head of your model ends with these two images of the Athene figurehead on Glory herself shows that yours is much too small. On your model, your figure's head is still below the tips of the naval hoods above her. On the actual vessel, Glory's head of the Grecian Goddess is ahead of and slightly above those naval hoods. Observe closely, you can see her forehead aligns neatly between band #3 & #4 on the bowsprit above. Also, it's hard to tell from her missing right arm but originally she held the top of her toga in her down turned right hand which causes a loop in the formation of the figurehead herself. This is a critical section of your model, deserving extra attention as it's the lovely figurehead gracing the bow which completes Glory's beautiful look.
-
Dowmer, of course photographic evidence is correct. In the busy image of Glory's main deck undergoing conversion to being a factory vessel, it's clear that, while the highest step is just below, both rungs of Starboard steps actually attach to the upper poop deck itself. I guess a downside to having so much photographic, verifiable evidence available is that intrepid modelers like Rob and Vladimir are open to stricter scrutiny than ever before.
Our Emblem ®
