ClipperFan
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Rob, beautiful work. Now the more subdued vent profile enhances the size of the Helm House it's built on, instead of competing with it as it had before. I'm sorry if I embarrassed you but it felt necessary to help you correct an issue which, while not huge would have still diminished overall accuracy of your recreation. When considering a very real likelihood that your completed effort, as well as Vlad's will be included in an upcoming Nautical Research Journal article on accurizing "GLORY of the SEAS" it puts even more emphasis on remaining true to the original as faithfully as possible.- 3,560 replies
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Vladimir wow! That's what my wife and son said when I showed them the pictures of your Rear House. Just beautiful work.
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Rob, since these raised panels are on the Front House, Wheelhouse and front fascia of Rear House, it's looking more and more like this was a consistent design element on Glory. The challenge with this particular pic is that on the original, it's a very tiny element but it's definitely there. I thought you guys would appreciate knowing.
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George K, meanwhile I forgot to compliment you on your excellent coppering job on "Flying Fish" for which I apologize. I'm looking forward to the beautiful progress you're making on your ship. Dover is a great book. I really enjoyed it myself. Later I learned about Richard McKay's original publication with the different title. Being an artist myself, I enjoyed the added rare full color paintings and there's more specifics, including fascinating references in the original. Since it was widely published, decent copies are still available for 20 bucks. I thought you might appreciate knowing.
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Rob, the last thing I want is to make you feel that I'm out to "get you" or Vlad. As I've always said, it's my goal to be of assistance in maintaining scale accuracy in order to assure you both create the most accurate reproduction of Glory possible. To assist you, I've attached a small sketch of what I see in the photos. The louvers can be painted, they look like they were natural wood anyway. Meanwhile, I'll redouble my efforts to sketch more structures accurately in advance.
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Vladimir that's beautiful woodwork. You're truly creating something to be very proud of which I suspect, like Rob's replica will be a timeless heirloom for your family's for the ages. I agree about Glory's two tone door. From the photo, it looks like it's cherry wood with maple inset. Very lovely. It must have been quite impressive when she was new. An observation I have is that, like I said to Rob, while subtle, the shape of the Rear House isn't a rectangle. If you look at Stern the pic of Glory in Alaska you'll see on the Port side from above there's a slight almost unnoticeable curve as the rear of the House is narrower at the Stern than further forward. That's been done to accommodate her walkways as the ship narrows to her Stern. I'm not suggesting you change the beautiful work you've already done, as the difference on the real vessel is barely noticeable. I'm just trying to give you my best insights into Glory's true appearance. There are many, many subtle touches throughout this beautiful Ship.
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Rob, You're probably not going to like hearing this but here goes. Based upon very careful observations of the relationship between your Helm House and Vent Cupola, the profile of your Cupola is about twice as high as it should be to be scaled properly. I've included a couple close edits so you can see what I'm talking about. The top image is from the roof of the large cabin astern the Mainmast looking towards the Stern. Observe the somewhat diminutive height of the central section of the Cupola. At most, the highest it gets is about 1/2 the height of the front window of the Helm House. On the contrary, your Cupola appears to have a central window equal to the height of the front window. It's not as critical but the height difference between front and rear is more subdued on the real craft as well. It's so subtle that we had to look very closely even to identify it. If I were to estimate, my closest guess would be possibly 8" in the rear, 10" in the front with 1' center. It looks like the moderately raised center is 4' wide with two 1' wide ends. You might want to mock up a cardboard substitute and compare it to the photos. Keeping these fascinating details to scale is annoying but results will be so rewarding.
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Rob, After over a dozen years struggling to correctly envision Donald McKay's magnificent last Clipper Ship, it's so exciting to finally see her being recreated so meticulously by not one but two highly motivated and talented individuals. I am so thrilled to observe your progress!
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George K, To truly appreciate the full beauty of Richard McKay's publication, do yourself a favor and get ahold of an original 1928 GP Putnam's book "Some Famous Sailing Ships and Their Builder Donald McKay." There are 10 gloriously beautiful full color paintings, all protected by rice paper like tissue, 48 other illustrations and greater in-depth writing. Best of all, if you shop carefully, First Edition copies, even signed are really not that expensive. Believe me, I have both copies, there's a world of difference.
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Rob, Vladimir, here's one of the nicer pics which again confirms "GLORY of the SEAS" had a sleek, beautiful hull despite being a very large vessel. What really impresses me about this image (from an ad for the refrigerator insulating material) is how gracefully her large Grecian Goddess 'Athene' projects from her Clipper bow. It's hard to tell from such a tiny, blurry image but enlarged, if you look closely into the shadows below the Bowsprit, her head and upper torso can just barely be made out. Even marred by two stories of factory structures and a large ungainly metal exhaust stack, McKay's venerable, last "Medium" Clipper Ship's lasting beauty is still there. Lastly, I've shared a picture of an original door from Glory shared by Arina "theAuthor'sDaughter" which her dad Michael Mjelde owns. Very clearly this artifact reveals that the pattern of the doors in the Rear Carriage House are practically identical.
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Vladimir, that is elegantly beautiful. Now I'm going to share some "eagle eyed" detail on the side of this Rear Carriage House that will either drive you nuts or challenge you to a deeper level of fine detail, even if it's just representing this sculptured look by painting. I originally figured since it was only 3' tall, the 45' sides would be plain. That's until I stumbled on a small rear corner section that's only visible from the Stern shot Mike shared with us just recently. Tucked in neatly just next to the Port side rear ladder to the upper deck, just barely visible is the most elegant little rectangle on the corner of the Carriage House panel. I've edited and enlarged the area as best as possible to make it more visible. That tells me that if builders included this decorative accent on the rear section and it's clearly all over the Helm House as well, then the 45' sides also had these embellishments along the sides too. I'm not telling anyone the have to add these lovely accents to their models, just felt you'd appreciate knowing that they really were there.
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Rob, the "weaker sex" indeed. That's a ton of malarkey. Anyone who's seen their wife go through childbirth knows the truth. Women are tough as nails. If men had to bear children... I fear the human race would have gone extinct and you know there would be Abortion Clinics on every corner like Starbucks! 😉 But I digress. I'm glad for your wife that her cure has been made for her. Meanwhile, since nobody's interested in the 3 folks in this pic, I edited them out to focus entirely on the skylight.
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Vladimir, I already shared these on Rob's blog. I took additional pictures and felt these might be a little sharper. The Bow scene has just a little more of the ship which I edited to get the image more balanced. This is actually more true to how Mike sent them to me. I noticed a little child standing between the Captain and his wife on the Rear House deck which I never noticed before.
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Vladimir so often I sound like Rob's echo. I agree, fantastic work on that tough to work but beautiful walnut.
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Rob, I hope your wife didn't suffer too much from the extraction. That can be tough. It's quite fortunate that your dentistry skills will supply her the partial denture. Besides saving your family money, it will get her teeth restored more quickly. We're having to save up thousands for my poor wife Peggy in order to cover similar replacements. Meanwhile she just recently had to have a tooth re repaired that had been previously treated. Her jew's so out of alignment that it's hard for her to chew. Since my cancer surgery recovery was her whole focus, she's been hiding from me how badly she's been suffering. Now that I know, I'm pushing to speed up her timeline to get the work done. I told her we'll figure out how to pay for it. In comparison, I've got to believe that constructing skylights will be a piece of cake....
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Rob, I agree with your observation about the two skylights. From the one clear image we got, it's remarkable how the same structural treatment has been repeated in smaller scale for these two devices. The pedestal mount, most likely blue, as well as some darker trim around the louvered base. The pedestal theme is continued under the roof as well. There's an indent, probably a foot for seating. The natural wood louvered areas appear to be 1' wide each, 3 next to each other with a small verticle divide followed by 3 more which would total 6' in all. Following that pattern the fore and aft sides would be 4 similar sections. My estimate is the lower section would be open for ventilation while the top would be glass enclosed. The metal bars would possibly be brass. From what I've read these sections could also be raised and propped open for additional ventilation in acceptable weather. Meanwhile, as mentioned earlier today, here's more pics Mike shared with me. He had an opportunity to take sectional close ups of the Walter's oil. Pity it wasn't in color. What I immediately noticed is that it appears, as I originally suspected, all 3 outer arch bands for both her Naval Hoods and carved Cutwaters were indeed gilded. Apparently the turned stanchions for both Poop deck and Rear House were natural wood while the rails themselves were white. You can also see that one of the figures on the Rear House deck is obviously a woman in a dress, most likely the Captain's wife standing besides him. It's an interesting personal touch. Finally the Antonio Jacobson painting was shared with me by Mike a few months ago. He wrote that the Stern embellishment would be typical for Clippers of that era. "GLORY of the SEAS" would have had similar such decorations. I will use this as my guide to complete her Stern.
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Rob, if it's not the other aft skylight, do you think it might be part of the original gangway entrance to the rear of the Rear House?
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Rob, in an email I just received, which has some beautiful pictures attached (one's my favorite Walter's oil, the other I edited from a pdf which shows important skylight details, more to follow) Mike confirmed that the skylights on the Rear House layout in "Clipper Ship Captain" pg 175 are indeed 6' × 4' (which means as printed the scale is 1/4" = 2'). He also mentioned that he has a layout in the works for the Afterhouse Cabin which will include two Vestibules, one adjacent to the Chief Mate's Cabin and the other to the Second Mate's Cabin both which exited onto the Dining Salon and also onto the After Deck. That's got to be the two new doors to the Helm House extension to have access to the after deck. I've always been curious too about how they treated the position of the ship's wheel once the extension was added. Or since the helmsman was always basing their position on the ship's compass in the binnacle just in front of them, did this even matter?
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Rob, I'm running out of ways to say superlative work. I'm going to have to refer to a Thesaurus! Absolutely beautiful work.
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The way I explain how my observation differs from Mike's is a trained artist's eye. Shadows define shapes. Light shows raised areas whereas shadows reveal recessed ones. Using that knowledge you can clearly see that where Mike has called out pillars are actually surrounded by recessed areas on both sides. Another interesting feature, again revealed by shadow observation is that the structures surrounding the windows are actually rounded and not rectangular like modern window sashes are. The way you can tell is that shadows on round objects are softer, more diffuse while those on flat surfaces are sharper, more crisply edged. That's how I was able to sketch in greater detail than Mike for the surfaces that I could observe. When I get a chance, I will revise my sketch to correct it according to Mike's excellent example.
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Rob, Vladimir, Here's Mike's Rear House front fascia sketch in a slightly larger scale. One significant difference between my observations and Mike's is where he saw pillars in '78 I currently see mainly insets. Another interesting observation is that in Mike's completed sketch there are 9 distinct pillars, evenly distributed which is very elegant.
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Vladimir, Mike continues to amaze me with rare, never before seen images of Glory. I have one additional front fascia sketch by Mike that I need to convert from Adobe pdf which can't be shared to jpg files which can. Meanwhile Mike has now generously offered to share any pic from his 2 books that we request. Let me know if you have any particular preferences. Please specify either book #1 or #2 and what facing page it's on. That's precisely how I managed to get one of the most consequential images we've seen so far. The one of Glory at the Seattle dockside in 1911 was in Michael's first book but not the full image he shared. Very often publishers edit photos in order to fit specific locations. In my spare time, I'm going to compile my own list.
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Rob, Mike continues to amaze me with his treasure trove of rare images. This unfortunately also reveals how little respect the new owners had for a historic vessel. If they had only invested in proper Muntz metal refreshment, she would still be with us today.
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Rob, Vladimir, as promised, Mike shared some additional pics of the front fascia of Glory's Rear Carriage House. I mentioned before that I made some errors in my reconstruction sketch. Without the ability to see better into the shadows, my upper level just below the roof was conjectural. Mike's drawing as far as that section is concerned is more accurate as he had better knowledge. Meanwhile, I also didn't account for space to incorporate the two outer fancy brackets under the roof overhang. Had I done that, there would only have been one outer rectangle instead of two. Again Mike's sketch is right. Where it looks like Mike has interpreted the fascia wrong is where he has projecting pillars, mine has recesses. That's where I feel my sketch is more accurate.
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Rob, Vladimir, I don't know about you guys but I always get so jazzed when Mike sends me more rare detailed pics of "GLORY of the SEAS!" As we've been discussing her Rear Carriage House a few of these images will be familiar but some again are ones I've never seen before. The fascia of the Carriage House is lighter so that the pedestals at the top and arches are clearly visible now. The beautiful painting is one I've never seen before. Mike has also offered to send me any image from either of his 2 books should I want. I'm going to look closely to see if there are ones that will help us in our modeling endeavors.
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