ClipperFan
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Rob, I have learned over the years that the most likely toughest critic of your creative process.... is you yourself. As a fellow artist, I understand and respect that attitude. Being our own toughest critics means we are relentlessly pursuing perfection in ourselves. The trick, I'm admittedly still learning is to also accept and even celebrate our triumphs. I would say your composite masts are such a triumph. They are really beautiful already. How you can improve on them is beyond me. It will be fascinating to see the red bands contrasting the beautifully varnished wood with white internal contrasts.- 3,560 replies
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Rob, here's Duncan MacLean's highly detailed description of McKay's first Extreme Clipper "Stag Hound" which summarizes she was nine feet through the 'back bone.' Since it's unlikely the author took all of these measurements personally, it's more likely he received them from the Shipyard directly. To simplify it, I've just listed structures and their dimensions: New Clipper "Stag Hound" Boston Daily Atlas, Dec 21, 1850 Keel depth: 46" (3'10") Floor Timbers on Keel: molded 14"-16" 3 Depths Midship Keelsons: 42" (3'6") Hold Stanchions: 10" square, kneed to beams above and Keelson below, so that their lower arms form almost a rider along the top of the Keelson. Including their depth and the molding of the floor timbers, she is nine feet through "the back bone." 46"+14"-16"+42"+10"= 112" -114" or 9'4"-9'6" Since masts can't be stepped to hold stanchions, we can subtract them out ending with 8'6" to 8'8" upon which masts would be mounted. Most likely 8'8" for fore and main masts and 8'6" for the mizzen. Using this same methodical approach, we can accurately estimate the "back bone" of "GLORY of the SEAS." New Clipper "Glory of the Seas" Boston Daily Atlas 1869 Keel molded: 24" Depth of Shoe: 5" Floor Timbers molded: 20" 3 Midship Keelsons: 16" square 3 Tiers of Thick Work on the Bilge: 15" 24"+5"+20"+48"+45"= 142" Making "GLORY of the SEAS" 11'10" through the "back bone". That's very similar to "Sovereign of the Seas" which was described as being eleven feet through "the back bone" and which wasn't nearly as full a design as Glory, which had the flattest floor of any McKay Clipper Ship.. Since 29" is the Keel and Shoe, that means there's 9'5" depth which the masts are stepped to. I'm confident this dimension will assist Rob and Vladimir in making sure their mast heights are soundly accurate.
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George K, nice job on the companion. It always amazes me how tight tolerances are on these vessels. Exiting this structure you have to careful not to run into the doors in front of the Rear House.
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Banyan, one of the traits I most admire about Rob is his self deprecating style. He's matter of factly describing quite a complicated modeling technique which I can barely but not quite comprehend. This is further proof that Rob is a consummate professional in his miniature replicating technique despite minimizing of his obvious considerable talents.
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Rob, when you account for the lower height of Glory's three masts, you'll want to use a deeper "backbone" depth than the 7' in the 1970s crossection illustration. McKay's Clipper "Sovereign of the Seas" had a depth of 11 feet. Using the method elaborated in "Stag Hound" for Glory, I arrived at a similar figure. When I have a chance, I'll elaborate on how I arrived at that conclusion. Suffice it to say, you wouldn't want to short change the height of your masts by 4 feet.
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Rob, I will post it as soon as I can. I'm double checking dimensions of the Starboard walkway which appear to be between 4 to 5 feet wide. That's important because the Alaskan photo clearly reveals that these walkways remain consistent as the Rear Carriage House bends about 1/2 way of its 45 foot length to accomodate narrowing of the Hull. It's an important discovery, since even the "Flying Fish" model doesn't replicate this sensible feature.
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Vladimir, the discovery I'm referring to is the vessel's width, which accommodates consistent walkways on either side of her rear house. In addition, the Wheelhouse, now established to be 15' across, looks smaller in the photo, reflecting a wider Stern than previously thought. Since we didn't get this particular image until both of your projects were well under way, nobody can be faulted for this oversight. It does however highlight how new discoveries help us to revise our thinking about McKay's vessels. This all points to an even more robust Stern Poop deck than previously thought before. Surprisingly it's still all very graceful when plotted out, as you'll see in my next sketch.
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Rob, Vladimir back to more salient issues. This amazing and clear Stern image of Glory docked in Alaska gives us an even better opportunity than ever before to accurize Glory's dimensions from the Poop deck to the Stern quarters. Knowing accurate measurements of the rear Carriage House we can calculate the width of the walkways alongside. Utilizing a 15' width for the Wheelhouse we can also estimate quite accurately the width of the Stern, which has proven to be a genuine representation of McKay's "curvilinear" Stern section. I'm working on an accurate scale sketch of this section. It's too late to revise either of your models but it will help us all recognize the authentic appearance of a McKay Clipper for future reference.
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Well, I guess we've just about "wrung" this topic out now.....
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Rob, then again, it could just be a "spare bell".... you know, just in case one's lost or gets broken..... 😉
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Rob, I agree, it's just uncanny how much the one peculiar image resembles a bell. It would be a major league inconvenience to mount a bell in such a place! 🙂
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Rob, I agree but you have to also admit it sure has the shape of a bell
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Rob, Whew, that's a relief about the book. I felt so bad when you said they were all sold out. It's an amazing Pictorial of the Packard. If you enlarge the Boy's House picture looking forward, there's a distinct half shape of a ship's bell behind the foremast. It would be an awkward place to put one but I can't figure out what else it could be.
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Rob, then again, if the forecastle stanchions are 30" high, they could be about double the height of the lower forecastle bulkhead. That's if we figure those bulkheads are slightly beyond the sailor on his knees. By the way, did you ever get the book "Story of a Ship, the Benjamin F Packard" that I had sent to you? It should have arrived around the 11th. Don't worry about the cost, consider it a gift. I just want to make sure it arrived safely.
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Rob, no critique intended, I was merely saying what I was observing after you directed me to that area of this amazing picture. Another fascination I have with this image is the apparent height of the Forecastle. The only logical way I can reconcile this much higher bulkhead is if the main deck had remained more level instead of following the molded level. Confusing to me at least.
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Rob, very perceptive of you to find those. When I enlarged that image, I also saw the distinct shape of a ship's bell apparently mounted to the rear of the Foremast just above the long House behind it. To me, that's sort of an awkward position for one but it sure looks like a bell to me. I can see the metal stanchions you refer to, but it looks like two sets of wires rigged across them. One runs across the top and another runs just slightly above midway. More confusing still, is that the wires appear to run completely across the forecastle rear with no break for ladders. Speaking of which, I see lower Bulwarks on the Port side, with three equal sets of long rectangular moldings and a bearded sailor crouching down just to the right of them but no visible ladders. Do you think it's possible the crew might have moved them to work on the deck?
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Rob, the forecastle rail is a nice touch. One I've never seen before on a McKay Clipper but which makes total sense from a safety factor. It looks like it's a wooden cross bar attached to iron stanchions. By the way, do you think maybe the center of this rail might be where the ship's bell might have been located?
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Rob, being on the East Coast, it seems damn near impossible but some day, when she's fully rigged, I would love to see your Museum piece in person. I am sure she will be quite imposing.
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Rob, this is really demonstrating how every spare inch of space was utilized on sailing Merchant vessels. Again, I believe this is shaping up to being your best most intricate modeling effort yet. This is getting more and more exciting daily.
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Rob, thanks for sharing your creative process.
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Rob, I hear you. You will have put an incredible amount of time and effort into your project by then. I don't even know if I would want to part with such a beautiful model by then. If you did though. I'm sure the logistics could be worked out.
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Rob, mark my words. By the time you complete her lofty masts, powerful spars and intricate rigging like the 1877 scene of her at the San Francisco Wharf, she will indeed be a stunning Museum piece for the ages. Can't you just imagine her sitting serenely in front of the sole remaining "GLORY of the SEAS" nameboard? It could start a whole new generation rediscovering McKay's final magnificent Clipper!
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Rob, these overall scenes are my favorites. You can really get a sense of how not one inch of space was wasted on these sailing merchant vessels. My guess is that a Chicken Coop would have been mounted on the forward hatch before the Foremast. This is just so exciting to see develop, it's like your creating a museum piece heirloom for the ages!
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Rob, this is continuing to shape up as your most fascinating build to date! I love the intricate interactions of the turned stanchions on the cat walk compared to the ones on the Carriage House and Poop Deck. Just beautiful work. Even the tarps on the ship's boats look amazingly realistic, especially the simulated tie downs.
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Rob, great catch on those house wall structures on the long house roof. Another answer we can see is that in both images, there are open window shutters on hinges on that same building. From the Boy's House forward, it appears like one has a broken hinge, as it hangs awkwardly. From the opposite scene, another silhouette of a open shutter appears to be open just fine. As far as solid vs built masts, maybe during tight financial times, they used solids and when affordable, converted to original built masts.
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