ClipperFan
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Rob, when looking at your proposed new spar I immediately see a scale problem, which I hope my observations can help you identify and correct. The flattening of the top part of the Bowsprit on Glory is about 18" (3/16ths") from the top of the main bulwark Rail, then Band 1 is about 1' (1/8th") of that distance. Your new spar doesn't allow for that, so where you've sketched your first band is too close scale wise. From your measurements, we know that 7 bands are 3' (3/8ths") apart, center to center, it looks like the distance from the center of band 7 to inside the Cap is 18". The Cap itself also appears to be 18" since it seems to match the distance from band 7. That would make your Bowsprit a minimum of 3 3/16ths" to comfortably include a mounting point for the Cap. You might want to sketch out the entire Bowsprit on paper, leaving extra length to accomodate the entrance into the Bow. I hope this helps. -
Rob, great catch to see that relatively slim detail. Initially I was so impressed with the overall look that I completely missed it. In the future, if you'd like me to 'backstop' your calculations (you or Vlad) I would gladly give you the most accurate calculations I can generate. As carpenters always say "measure twice, cut once." Of course, this is in no way my attempt to interfere in any way on either of your plans but only to offer my assistance.
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Rob, when the two combined are complete, the upper Jibboom will fit neatly into the 18" monkeyrail with the cut down area joining the top evenly. As the Jibboom sits now on your model, it is just slightly below the joint of the monkeyrail. When your Bowsprit is scaled to 34" this should move your Jibboom up properly to match with the top of the monkeyrail, as seen in this 1911 Seattle Bow close up.
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Rob, Vladimir according to Duncan MacLean's description from 1869 the Bowsprit's dimensions were 24' inside of the Cap and 34" wide. While the Jibboom isn't described by width, I measured the dimensions of the 1911 Seattle Bow close up, I got 7/8ths" for the Bowsprit & 1/2" for the upper Jibboom. Dividing 4/8ths (1/2) by 7/8ths or simply 4 ÷ 7 =.57 x 34" = 19". In 1:96 scale, 34" = apprx 10/16ths" & 19" = about 7/16ths". Here's my sketch of the Bow at 1:96th scale 1/8ths" = 1'.
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Vladimir, the gap between your Bowsprit and Naval Hood profile below hopefully should be closed by the time all your rigging is done. We see this space in numerous pictures of Glory after her long Jibboom is cut off. If you look at the scenes of Glory when she's fully rigged, there's almost no space between the Bowsprit and Naval Hoods, as it was cinched tight for seaworthiness.
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Vladimir I'm honored that you value my input so much. Just to set the record straight, I am continually in awe of the natural skills you and Rob display in crafting these glorious Clipper Ship models. As for my abilities, maybe someday I'll consider attempting one of my own and boy howdy will you know an amateur at work when, if you see one! What astonishes me about your work Vlad is that, not knowing this is a miniature replica, there are some close ups that make it seem like you're actually staring at a real ship under construction! I agree fully with Rob's observation too, you have managed quite nicely to follow the challenging complexity of Glory's Hull which even Duncan MacLean described as transitioning smoothly from concave to convex. Again, especially as I see both of your impressive ships come to fruition, it becomes ever more clear to me that Donald McKay did indeed meld lines of his famous Extreme Clippers "Stag Hound" and "Flying Fish" with the largest, flattest cargo carrying capacity imaginable combined with an incredibly lofty and powerful sail plan. As for your lovely Cutty Sark model, is that 1:96th scale?
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Rob, the Bowsprit, Jibboom combination are just beautiful while being faithfully accurate to the original herself. Probably one of the most exciting developments in our examination of Glory's true dimensions was when Michael Mjelde shared that crystal clear close up of her Bow and Figurehead. You, I and others were able to precisely count very specific measurements that have allowed accuracy that simply wasn't imaginable before. To see it recreated in miniature in such meticulous detail is constantly thrilling. As much as she impresses in these photos, your model must be even more stunning in person.
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Rob, as I just said a moment ago, it's rapidly becoming more and more of a challenge for me, who usually doesn't lack for words to continue to express my sheer amazement at the progress you demonstrate. This Glory is just so beautiful. It so closely resembles the scene of Glory at the Seattle dock that it's just uncanny. As you continue to develop her lovely, very sharp Clipper form it really justifies my suspicion that what Donald McKay achieved was an enormous cargo carry capacity vessel melded with the very sharp Clipper entrance and exit of the Extreme Clipper "Flying Fish."
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Rob, it becomes a challenge how to continually acknowledge your ongoing achievements with your miniature ship. I am just so thoroughly amazed at how much your entirely scratch built vessel so accurately resembles Glory herself. By the way, Michael Mejelde sent a very brief reply to my latest share of your series comparison to scenes of Glory herself, he said "I am impressed." High praise indeed from the author of now 3 books on "GLORY of the SEAS!"
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Vladimir, it's remarkable how you have reproduced Glory's very graceful Stern and Counter so beautifully. Between you and Rob, I do believe we have two of the most impressive "GLORY of the SEAS" Clippers ever built so far. That includes the one sitting in the Kennedy Library and examples I've seen in Mystic Seaport's collection of sailing Ship models.
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Snug Harbor Johnny WOW! You are a genuine Renaissance Man! That is quite a list of accomplishments. If you don't mind clarifying some points on your first prize award winning 16" mirror. Is the small circle you're holding in your hand the prize or a component of the telescope. I see an identical pattern in the center of the very thick circular object on the table, which by educated guess is the 16" mirror. Are the white swirls part of the mirror or do they get cleaned off later? That telescope looks massive and potentially heavy, it must have been a bear to transport. Were you able to take pictures through it?" Finally you mentioned that you modified a harpsichord kit which you handcrafted. I have to believe you probably designed and sewed the entire 17th Century costume yourself too. Oddly enough, as soon as I saw the pic of you at the harpsichord, I immediately thought of impish 'Trelane' from "The Squire of Gothos!" Except you had the more challenging job. He could just snap his fingers to make his fantasies real.
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Not that this compares in any way to hand laying 2,000 copper plates but I can remember as a youth wanting an authentic turn of the century water tower for our HO train layout. None of the plastic offerings looked genuine enough. So we scratch built one. For the tin roof we improvised ordinary aluminum foil, dull side out and cut them into scale shapes. That was a tedious, time consuming project. Afterwards we used ordinary tea to stain the entire contraption and imitate rusty weathering. As I recall it came out looking better than we'd hoped but yeah, I wouldn't want to anticipate hand lay a 1,000 or more tiles either.
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Vladimir, beautiful work on her Stern and Counter. This is where Michael Mjelde's highly detailed images have given us such in depth knowledge of all the subtleties of McKay's construction. You are doing a great job in capturing it too!
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Vladimir, no problem. It was just a thought. Anyway if you're considering modeling Glory as first launched, this gives you an idea of what shade her Muntz plates would have been when new.
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Rob, I see 3 telescopes. A smaller one mounted next to a larger next to it. My guess is you use the smaller first to locate a planet and then view it better with the larger one. But the 3 projecting out of the roof looks huge. Did you build all 3?
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Rob, Snug Harbor Johnny, your brief reminiscence of crafting telescope mirrors has me curious. Were these for Nautical uses or astronomy? I always suspected Rob was an Engineer at heart, since he's constantly designing all these clever time saving devices for his Ship modeling needs. Crafting those highly polished mirrors to exacting specs must have been quite challenging and fascinating at the same time.
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Vladimir old buddy, old pal. Not to throw a "monkey wrench" into your plans to invest in relatively expensive Amati copper tiles but I thought you might just appreciate seeing a less costly alternative. Granted, this real brass foil would have to be modified ala Rob's technique but think of the amazingly similar results to new Muntz metal. Of course, this would have to be dulled down but it's dramatically different than copper. Besides, I'm pretty sure that the replications of the Amati tiles are in reverse.
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Rob, I'm blown away with what you said. All I can say in reply is.... thanks. I have no other words.....
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Rob, you're probably right. My enthusiasm for the project got the better of me. I don't know of anyone on a par with EdT, then again I have to admit I'm unfamiliar with Banyan's works. Still what you produce does speak for itself too.
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Vladimir you did indeed "make some serious dust." Awesome results worthy of "GLORY of the SEAS" herself! When she was first launched, Duncan MacLean commented that she sides were polished as smooth as glass. Your miniature vessel replicates that look impressively.
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Rob, as usual this rudder with its unusually strong post is Museum quality perfection. That was a great catch and once again will add to the uniqueness of this incredibly durable vessel.
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Rob, Vladimir et all I just received this reply from Michael Mjelede, in response to my update about our year long journey of discovery about the impressively beautiful authentic lines of McKay's last Clipper. Verbatim, this is what he wrote: "Thanks for sending. I will 'digest' all that you, Rob and Vladimir have accomplished this week and get back to you. I think that it is outstanding what you collectively have done."
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Rob, unless this rudder post is longer than 6 1/2', it won't impede into even a 25' coppering line. When I extended the post to a scale 6 1/2' it should just about touch the yellow metal line but not pierce it, as far as I can tell. By the way, I shared your discovery on Vladimir's site so he can take the necessary steps to correct the oversight. Which brings up another interesting question. Nowhere do I see the traditional hinges so typical of these sailing ships. Do you suspect they're just hidden or is it possible that McKay used a more advanced system of hinges?
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Vladimir, Rob just made an amazing discovery which will require you to adjust your rudder cut out significantly. It turns out the rudder post extends 6 1/2' from where it exists the Stern (this is the length I calculated by comparing this device to the 4' main bulwarks added to the 2' drop which is formed by the transverse structure which shows up as a shadow in the same scene. Rob has circled the picture where he discovered it.
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