ClipperFan

Vladimir, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. I have been fascinated with Clipper Ships in general for many, many years. With "GLORY of the SEAS" alone, it's been over a dozen. I've read and reread most if not all of the wonderful descriptions of these magnificent vessels from Lars Bruzelius's generous website. Most of them are from the rather loquacious Duncan MacLean's Boston Daily Atlas writings. It constantly amazes me how he always seems to straight faced claim that each Clipper he reviews is best in class. However his details are priceless. It's also why I know for a fact that most, if not all (with the single exception of the "Great Republic") of the contemporary models of Donald McKay's magnificent Clipper Ships are inaccurate, especially when it comes to the Bow. Some day I intend to share my findings to correct these oversights. One the other hand, while I became quite adept as a youth at building plastic models. They were all done with careful hand brushing but no airbrush work. My one attempt, decades ago to construct a solid wooden Hull Swift "Ferret" ended up so disappointing that I put the project away...

Vladimir, since Rob is modeling his craft in her later years, grime and all, including larger extended rear Wheelhouse, my request would be that your model be of her as first launched with smaller Wheelhouse but all shiny and new? If so, it appears all of her turned rail stanchions and railing both around her Stern and carriage house appear to be painted white. The later scene, as so gloriously painted by Samuel Walters shows the railing to be white but all stanchions to be varnished natural wood. As for all her Houses, again it sounds like the recessed areas were pearl, relieved with white, which to me means the raised areas. The Colonial pearl shade I found makes it look like this was probably a very elegant look. Duncan MacLean describes her sides as being smooth as polished glass. That would be quite lovely to see and a dramatic contrast to the later version Rob is constructing. Of course, this is all left to your personal choice, I'm just letting you know my request. Also, as far as masting, rigging or sails, might I suggest you take those choices one step at a time? One of the most impressive aspects of this massive vessel was her very lofty spars. When you see her docked in San Francisco, you hardly notice her lovely Hull for the towering masts. Another fact which blew me away is I was recently reading about the world's oldest commissioned Warship USS Constitution and was somewhat shocked to discover that "Old Ironsides" described as a Super Frigate back in 1797 when she was launched, has a much shorter keel than "GLORY of the SEAS!" The keel for USS Constitution is 204' while that of Glory was 240'. Imagine if somehow History could have seen Donald McKay's final masterpiece somehow saved and restored.... these two magnificent sea faring vessels side by side would have been quite a sight to see. Ironically the 1800s Frigate would have been dwarfed by the substantially larger 1900s Merchant vessel!

Vladimir, all I do to ease your concerns about authenticity is rely on the published details, as few there are from contemporary descriptions and paintings of "GLORY of the SEAS." Duncan MacLean while employed by the Boston Daily Atlas apparently was more of what we today refer to as a publicist. I doubt he arrived at all his very detailed descriptions of the many Clipper Ships he described by actually measuring them out. It's far more likely he was given highly detailed specs by the Shipyards themselves. Likewise he also gave great details about how these great vessels were decorated, even to describing interior fittings as well as selections of paint colors. When she was launched in 1869, her paint scheme was described in MacLeans announcement. Exterior from top down to where she as clad in yellow metal, she was black. From all visual sources even the moldings appear to be uniformly black. As an aside, just due to the intense activity of a working ship, I suspect, but have no proof, her topmost molding might have been left natural varnnished and polished wood. As for gold leaf embellishment, whenever I looked at her 1869 scene on the ways, I always figured that all 3 rail moldings would originally have been 24kt gold leaf. That would include both upper & lower Naval Hood moldings as well as the single ropeline molding of the arched Cutwater. This lovely, expensive embellishment would of course terminate at the base of the Naval Hoods. That's my impression of how her impressive Bow would have been originally decorated. From a design aesthetic it just looks more complete that way. As for her Grecian Goddess 'Athene' figurehead, which has been referred to as the epitome of such carvings, again, this is entirely subjective but besides being painted overall white, I believe she was also gold leaf embellished. She has a modest crown at the tip of her forehead, a fairly impressive necklace and two bracelets. Besides that, if you look very closely you'll see her gown also has thin double lines near the very bottom. It has been known that such items on other Clippers were highlighted with gold leaf trim. There was also quite elaborate & impressive gold leaf embossed carving that went clearly around the Stern up and over her great lettering. A small amount of it is barely visible on her Stern Quarter. Her Bowsprit and probably the inner portion of her Jibboom inside the cap was most likely black, with the outboard portion of the Flying Jibboom being varnished, polished natural wood. Her interior recessed areas were pearl, relieved with white, which to me means the raised bulkheads. Her waterways were blue but it doesn't say if that was light or dark blue. Contrasting to pearl, it makes sense it would be more towards the lighter side.

Tony Hunt my estimation is that Rob won't cut in anything. Rather he'll glue all deck furniture directly onto the deck itself. Since he's chosen her later period, as seen in Michael Mjelde's first book 'Glory of the Seas' it will be a very busy and full deck once he's done. Rob's will continue to be a fascinating and impressive build. I can't wait!

Rob, of course I completely agree with Vladimir about the impressive quality of you deck work. Fantastic! I am curious about your procedure. Are these each long slats that you glued down and then press fit your 'formers' to hold in place? I'd love to hear more about this process. Of course it can wait until your return from North Dakota. Have a safe and pleasant trip.

Rob, just the very fact that they're even included will put your replica ahead of pretty much every other model ever made so far.

Vladimir you may already know this, if so my apologies in advance. At 1:72nd scale, this docking port would be 1/2" long by .36th of an inch tall, which the closest I can get is 3/8ths of an inch. If you look at the most recent 1869 Glory at fitting out and eyeball the distance from the rear of the Foremast shrouds to the fore of the Mainmast shrouds, to me at least it looks like it's 2/3rds distance from the Foremast shrouds & 1/3rd from the Mainmast shrouds.

Vladimir, your framing looks spot on! I don't know if you're going to welcome this nit-pickey detail or curse me instead. The 1869 "Glory of the Seas" on the Ways is clear enough to count her strakes. For the Starboard side, I count exactly 4 strakes to make up the side of that loading port. As each strake was 6 1/2" wide, the height was exactly 26". My best guesstimate for width is 3' as the port is definitely wider than it is tall. From her 1869 Fitting Out scene we can see that the loading port appears to be 2/3rds closer to the Mainmast and seems to align with the rear wall of the large house just behind the Foremast.

Vladimir since your vessel is 1:72nd scale, she must be 4" shy of 4'. At that large scale, it's even more critical to be as precise as possible, since mistakes become magnified. From the pics you've shared, it looks like you're doing an impressive job, fairing her out. I remember when reading Ed T's "Young America" build, how he made frequent references to getting the angle of each bulwark accurate in reference to the others or else planks wouldn't sit just right and unsightly bulges would be the result. It was fascinating reading. So it looks like your approach is in very, very good company, my friend!

Gregory, on behalf of Rob's group, you're welcome!

Greg, since "GLORY of the SEAS" had a published keel of 240' a length between perpendiculars of 250' and from Stern Taffrail to Bow Knightheads an overall length of 265' then add in a Bowsprit of 24' outboard & combined 31' additional inner & outer Jib for an additional 55' she was a huge vessel. "Medium Clipper" refers to her classification as to her Hull's potential speed in the water mainly related to the underwater pitch at "Half Hull". In Glory's case she was the flattest of any of McKay's Clippers with a Half Hull of a mere 8 & 1/2". Compare that to McKay's first Extreme Clipper "Staghound" which had a Half Hull of 40". In fact some maritime authors I've read say McKay's first Clipper was his only "Extreme" one. His second effort, the record shattering Extreme Clipper "Flying Cloud" had a flatter Hull, with a Half Hull of 30". Gradually McKay kept making his Half Hulls flatter as he searched for the ultimate balance between swift underwater Hulls and increased carrying capacity. So I guess Clippers were categorized three ways: Extreme Clipper, Clipper and lastly Medium Clipper. Of course a lot of this is subjective but there never was a classification of "Large Clipper" though McKay built some of the largest in the world. What I see in the brilliance of McKay's last "Medium Clipper" was he created a magnificent vessel with sharp very fine Clipper Hull entrances and exits while having very substantial carrying capacity too.

Rob, you do that while I go and prepare some popcorn. This is more exciting than going to a movie!

Rob, magnificent! Each time you share your progress, I get more and more blown away with how accurate to scale this miniature vessel is to Donald McKay's "GLORY of the SEAS"! I hope "theauthorsdaughter" or even Michael Mjelde himself is looking in on your jaw dropping progress. This will be unmistakable as any other Clipper Ship. Wow.... just wow.

Rob, I honestly believe by the time this project of yours is done, there will be 3 people who will know this magnificent vessel inside & out, better than any other people on the planet! By the way, am I correct in guessing that those neat oval ports are called mooring hausers? Do you think they might have been brass lined originally? They appear to have some metallic lining to them.

Actually in the pamphlet, these images are in reverse order, 1869 Glory on the Ways is Plate XV and her Fitting Out scene is Plate XVI. I found my copy on ebay years ago. The light cardboard cover is almost impossible to find intact as it's quite fragile after 62 years....

Rob, the 1877 photo is probably the finest image of this beauty "GLORY of the SEAS." The deck structures as revised will make quite an intricately detailed vessel as well. I particularly like the little walkway bridge that goes between 2 lifeboats from the rear Carriage House to the new Boy cabin. It will be a fun build to incorporate all those changes. Doubtless, the very finest modification is the extension of the originally small Wheel House to enclose the Helmsman (which I'm sure was greatly appreciated by those at the Wheel). However, if Vladimir prefers to model Glory as originally launched, I found another, possibly more defined image of Glory fitting out in Boston in 1869. Actually, there are a least 5 freeing ports that I can count, plus 4 oval ports visible in this print. It's from a 1959 American Neptune Pictorial Supplement I, published by American Neptune, Salem, Mass.

Rob, Vladimir, the best way I can describe this fascinating feature is to think of a sharp crease in dress pants. It's there but hardly noticeable too. It's tough to scale it but I will give it the old "College try." For Rob 1:96 scale, it's easier to calculate, since (1" = 8'), 1/8th" = 1'. So 3&1/2' = 3/8ths" + 1/16" so 3/8ths = 6/16ths + 1/16th" so 7/16ths" = 3&1/2' exactly. For Vladimir, 1:72 (1" = 6'). So 1/2" = 3', that's easy. Here's where it gets more interesting, math wise. Half of 1/2", 1/4" = 1 & 1/2' so 1/16" = 1/2 of 1 & 1/2' or 3/4ths of a foot, just a bit more than 1/2' needed to be precisely accurate. 1/32" translates to 3/8ths of 1'. Now just shy of the 1/2" desired! There's a scale calculator that I've seen before. It's probably easier to just reference that instead. Besides which, Vladimir might be more used to the metric scale too.

Rob, Vladimir, I went back a few pages and found more references to the shadow line that we've now confidently identified as the horizontal post timber. It's barely noticeable unless you know what to look for. In the sad scene where Glory is beached at Endolyne, take a close look at her Stern and again, below the sheerline is that line shadow which now can be seen to extend beyond just the Stern to her rear quarter as well. In fact, it's actually more visible on her rear quarter. Vladimir's uncanny ability to spot this same feature just by cast shadows confirms this very hard to catch feature has been there since the day Glory was launched. The 1869 Fitting Out scene also shows that, as I first suspected, while the wrought Iron chain plates do mount onto a 2nd shelf, for lack of the proper nautical term, they do indeed then bend below that device and mount directly to the Hull itself. Since Glory's verticle Timbers were all evenly spaced 28" center to center, it makes sense that there would be a need for a consistent horizontal structure to mount all of these critical chain plates to. Again, while it's just a thin line in McKay's Twin Packet sketch, if you count 5 lines down from the top of the Stern, there it is and it does stretch clear across the entire Hull and appears to terminate at the section which probably would be the Naval Hood on these actual vessels. For some odd reason, McKay jealously guarded this section of his Bow. It was a very successful tactic too, as practically none of our present day lines or models of McKay's magnificent Clippers accurately incorporate Naval Hoods or Cutwaters. They just show the bare Stem. That includes "Flying Cloud" "Sovereign of the Seas" and "Flying Fish." Even "Lightning" sketched by McKay himself oddly leaves this entire Bow area blank! It's a "pet peeve" of mine which I intend to set the record straight one day. Enough of my rant on sloppy, inaccurate models and plans. Back to "GLORY of the SEAS" again, looking carefully at the relation of this shadow to her Main rail height just above, now knowing for a fact that the outer height of that main rail bulwark is exactly 4', including all moldings, the post timber does look slightly shallower, which leads me to believe it's 3'6" below, which not coincidentally aligns perfectly with the bottom of the Naval Hood, as Rob previously calculated. I'm not saying anyone has to incorporate this fascinating detail in their model but if they could it would be just one more tribute to the very complicated construction technique of Donald McKay's Shipyard.

Rob, you mentioned earlier how you weren't fully satisfied with how your Stern was turning out. From the last view shown here, I would say you're doing a damn good job! I only brought up the post timber issue in order to be of assistance if you felt something was missing, not to be critical or cause concerns. As I've said confidently before, your "GLORY of the SEAS" is shaping up to be the best 1:96 scale replica ever created. I'm confident Vladimir will follow suit with his 1:72nd scale version too!

Rob, now THIS is a genuine CLIPPER SHIP worthy of the royal name "GLORY of the SEAS!" WOW!!! I am simply blown away by these glorious images. Excellent work!!!!

Rob, sadly, this is actually the best model I've seen on the Internet too. Perhaps there just wasn't sufficient access to images of "GLORY of the SEAS" as Michael Mjelde so generously shared with us. From the standpoint of craftsmanship, this is a beautiful & impressive creation. She's just in no way accurate to the genuine, lovely hullform of McKay's last Clipper. Now you see why I say without exaggeration that you & Vladimir are creating the most exhaustively accurate miniature of this marvelous ship ever done!

Rob, I couldn't remember the name of those iron bars. Chain plates is exactly right. My apologies for the confusion. Still, when I do my plans of "GLORY of the SEAS" I will incorporate this line as it is historically shown on the Twin Packets, which illustration is credited to McKay himself. It makes sense that it also would align with the base of the Naval Hood too, though as Vladimir first discovered, it's visible along the rear Starboard Quarter in her 1869 Fitting Out scene.

Rob, as my earlier post mentioned, I was incorrect about the mounting of the iron bars, they actually mount to another protruding shelf. Bumpkins are clearly visible in Glory's fitting out scene. It would be not surprise that these devices would be cut off. It's really such a damn shame how shabbily poor old Glory was treated in her later years. If they had just maintained her yellow metal cladding, she most likely would have been proudly resting in company with "Old Ironsides" today....

Rob, when I went to share this image of Glory's Hull it came as a surprise that the iron bars I was referring to actually don't mount directly into the Hull but into another projecting mounting board, which completely demolishes what I was thinking. My turn to eat some humble crow. Yum!

Rob, from this illustration, it looks like the horizontal "post timber" is the structural member I'm referring to. If, as McKay's other illustration shows, this feature covers the entire Hull, it would be a logical mounting point for the iron bars which anchor all Shrouds and back stays which are crucial in supporting all three of Glory's massive masts.