ClipperFan
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Rob, Vladimir, When I replied to Mike's latest encouraging reply to my review of Glory's draft marks, I recognized some simple arithmetic mistakes in my prior post, most likely due to being tired. Correct numbers get even more dramatic in support of a 6'4" to 6'6" inner bulkhead height. Here's why. A 38 & 1/2" result is 3' 2 & 1/2" not 3' 8 & 1/2" as I mistakenly posted. That would result in an outer main rail height smaller than Glory's naval hoods. Every photo clearly shows the opposite is correct. In my message to Mike, I actually used the smallest 16" monkeyrail height found on a McKay Clipper. That would result in 40 & 1/2" or 3' 4 & 1/2" still smaller than her naval hood height. So I told Mike in order for that to be accurate, Rob's 3'6" calculation of the naval hood height would have had to be incorrect. However, when a ruler was laid on the photo and those measurements reviewed, Rob's numbers were confirmed precisely. Not only that, a 44 & 1/2" main rail height was also confirmed. That means her exterior bulkhead still appears to be 3' 8 & 1/2". In order for that to be the case, a minimum height of 6'4" for internal bulwark height has to also be true. That's if her monkeyrail height is 16" not 18". It's more of a challenge to calculate that, due to severe damage to that area of her bow. In conclusion, I'm unconcerned with one height or another, as long as we get it right. -
Rob, to keep these different dimensions clear and separate, I now refer to internal bulkhead and opposite external measurements. Here's my challenge with a 6' maximum internal bulkhead height from deck to monkeyrail molding. Since most but not all of McKay's monkeyrail heights were 18" that of necessity has to be subtracted from a total height of 72" resulting in 54" height for the main rail or 4'6". Where it becomes difficult is for the external measurement. Since the lower molding is mounted to the 1' waterways which in turn rest on 3 & 1/2" thick decks, we have to subtract 15 & 1/2" from that, resulting in an exterior dimension of 38 1/2" (3'8" just barely taller than the 3'6" naval hoods at the bow). There's an instance where McKay used a 16" monkeyrail, which would then make that height 3'10". I'm not including the quarterdeck cap rail, which is only seen at the bow and terminates a short distance before the foremast. It's hard to see, since the picture is so dark but the resulting measurement from the lowest molding to upper molding below her monkeyrail confirmed a distance of 3' 8 & 1/2". I'll try to get a lighter picture tomorrow.
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Rob & Vladimir, In his most recent email, Michael Mjelde reminded me that on page 235 of his book, the last sentence reads that Duncan MacLean said Glory's bulkheads were about 6' from the deck. My reply was that it was my impression that the word "about" left the bulwark height open to some interpretation. I told him I would reexamine the photo of her 90" figurehead and use it to compare to other components in that image. The clear ruler I used, laid over a 14" × 17" ledger enlargement gave a result of 3 & 1/4" for total height of the Goddess 'Athene' figurehead, from base of her extended left toe to tip of her diminutive crown. 7/16ths" = 1' at least as best as I can calculate. Using that measurement, I confirmed Rob's calculation that her Naval Hood at the widest is indeed 3'6". I then calculated her outer Main Rail Bulkhead height, which came in at 3' 8 1/2". While it's clearly damaged, measuring from the lowest (Sheer Rail?) Molding to the tip of the Quarterdeck Cap Rail resulted in exactly 6'. I've attached the images I shared with Mike. Without attempting to be too contradictory, I shared all of my research with Mike, including precise measurements. By the way, in more than one occasion, usually in regards to combined Keel backbone depth, I've totalled all precise dimensions he's given and they don't match his own estimates. I will let you know Mike's reaction when I get it.
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Rob & Vladimir, In his latest email to us, Michael Mjelde reminded us that draft marks on Glory's bow and stern would settle her accurate bulwark dimensions. I laid a ruler as close as possible to those markers to do some comparisons. The stern appears to end up with 1 & 1/4s" = 4'. If Rob & my calculations are right, the outer depth of the main deck bulwark should be 3' 8 & 1/2" (5' internally with 15 & 1/2" offset due to the exterior moldings being mounted to 1' high waterways resting on 3 & 1/2" thick decks.) As the ruler appears to show, the dimensions almost match. Since the stern is closer to the camera then the location of the rudder, this measurement appears to be confirmed. Meanwhile I counted 1" = 7' on the reading of the bow. Rob said the end of Naval Hood is 3' 6" high. While I don't have a photo yet, it measures 6" on the ruler, confirming Rob's dimension precisely. It's beginning to look that we can be very confident that Glory had a 5' main bulwark height surmounted by an 18" monkeyrail, bringing her internal height to 6' 6" with an external dimension of 3' 8 & 1/2" topped by an 18" monkeyrail, for 5' 2 & 1/2". At the bow there's a 1' quarterdeck cap rail too.
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Rick, I appreciate your clearing that up for me. I never quite understood how those devices interacted and now I do, thanks to you and the excellent work of Mr Crothers. Now I need to review MacLean's description to see if he mentioned the dimension of the clamp.
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Rick, Beautiful painting. Thanks for sharing this with us. I have a question. Which component is the ship's clamp? I'm familiar with the description but not its location. It looks that this Artist pays particular attention to details. It appears that the stanchions are natural wood while the rail itself is painted white. Fascinating image.
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Here's another shade of Pearl White with an authentic 1850s Chippendale Mirror painted in old style blue.
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From Duncan MacLean's description of Clipper Lightning: "inside she is pearl color, relieved with white and her waterways are lead color." Since Lightning was built for the James Baines line of Australian Black Ball Clippers, it's likely this may have been specified by him. Flying Fish on the other hand was described more typically: "she is sheathed with yellow metal up to 18 1/2 feet forward and to 19 feet aft; above that she is black outside-a color peculiar to clippers and the clergy." (you kind of get the feeling MacLean was getting bored with black hulls) "Inside her bulwarks, etc are painted pearl color and the waterways blue." Sovereign of the Seas has only the briefest of descriptions: "Inside she is paInted buff-color, and looks well about the decks." There's no mention of a different color for the waterways or anything being relieved by white. However, his description of the Clipper Westward Ho! is more detailed and from inference we can determine Sovereign was painted the same way: "She is sheathed with yellow metal up to 20 feet and is painted black above it. Inside she is buff color relieved with white and the waterways are blue."
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Rob, that my friend is amazing! That looks practically identical to the ones on the ship herself. I edited and enhanced an area of Glory's main deck where you can see the section of her poop rail with the iron bar extension as well as the rear House upper turned rail. An odd feature I noticed, as seen in the upper left corner is that the curve of the house rail projects out, it doesn't rest on an end post like you normally expect it would. Finally, it's occurred to me that in order to keep a consistent height of the poop deck rail, the turned rails will most likely vary in length with the canted ones being slightly longer than more verticle posts, whether they cant inwards or outwards won't matter.
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Rick & Rob, This is one sample of pearl I found: Sherwin-Williams SW-6028 Cultured Pearl in matte finish. It's challenging to find authentic 1860s colors. I know from reading many Duncan MacLean ship descriptions that he was particular about his descriptions of the paints they were finished in. If a color was gray, he would specify it. Pearl wasn't gray for sure. Rick's correct that most of McKay's waterways were blue. The only other shade I read about was gunmetal gray, which if I remember correctly was on the lower decks of Clipper "Lightning." Rick, to post images from my Samsung Galaxy S8, I save images in my Gallery, to upload, click on "add files" next to paper clip image below where you post, then choose "My Files" in your phone. That opens to "Categories" where you'll find "Images." Choosing that will bring you to your saved image albums. "Downloads" are pictures saved from the web and "Camera" are ones you took pictures of. The album you select will have open circles next to each image. Click the ones you want to share and a checkmark appears, click "Done" in lower center and you'll see "preview" back on this site. If satisfied "submit reply" will complete the process.
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Rob, if I remember, I'll find one of the round toothpicks at are at most diner cashiers. They're also very thin but pure wood, more in keeping with a wooden replica. They're surprisingly durable too. By the way, this is in no way meant to make light of the spindles you've already done. They're amazing. It's just that the ones on Glory are still much thinner in comparison. By the way, Mike surprised me the other day. An article I dug up in The Marine Quarterly revealed a fact that he admitted he wasn't aware of. Charles Robert Patterson had actually seen "Glory of the Seas" in 1899 when she was hauling coal. Perhaps a more exciting development. Mike says he has a print of Glory in 1913 which was used for the coarkboard ad.
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Rob, my wife uses these hard, white plastic toothpicks, which are teenie-tiny, as can be seen here resting next to a ruler. Inadvertently a human hair can also be seen winding itself around the pick. The pick is round but has two areas which are just slightly molded. Trimmed to size, possibly delicately sculpted and painted. Just another possibility for raw material.
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Rob, of all images which reveal her true beauty, my personal favorite is the one you've chosen.
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Rob, my wife Peggy is amazed at the delicate work you're doing! Installed, these will look incredible. I have an idea for an easier way to cant them. Carve little holes in the mounting base. That way you can gradually adjust each one, like they appeared on the real ship. Even the rear house has a slightly elevated platform that the posts mount into.
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Rob, considering they loaded 70 tons of refrigeration machinery, not even counting all the added piping and insulation into a near 45 year old vessel, she was one tough, ruggedly constructed vessel. That was July 2013. To think her underwater Hull was so sadly neglected that less than a Decade later she was so riddled with barnacles that she couldn't be saved? What a loss....
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Rob, it always struck me as odd that the iron bands on Glory's masts were red, I imagine it was a deeper shade, perhaps vermilion. Then again her pump wheels were bright red, so.... As for her bowsprit, contemporary works appear to have the inner portion painted black, including her bands. Every description I've read of her is that she was a proud vessel of matchless beauty. Meanwhile, here are a few more rare images I recently unearthed sleuthing rare publications. I found a long 5 page article on Glory's history, which included the Standard Oil photo from her starboard rear quarter, the SF dock scene and a painting. The other two are of Glory in 1912 being converted into a refrigerator factory and an internal scene of conversion itself. Finally from Refrigerator World is a brief article on the machinery installed. For a then 43 year old wooden vessel, she was one tough, durably constructed ship to bear all of this weight. I realize this last article has zero to do with modeling her in general but I felt you guys might appreciate it anyway.
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Rob, as for Glory's original paint scheme, Duncan MacLean is a bit light on his description. He states that all woodwork below the upper deck was bright and varnished. She was yellow metal plated up to 22' and above she was painted black. Inside her bulwarks were painted pearl color, relieved with white. While he makes no mention of her waterways, I would accept the firsthand description of a man who was there at her construction and actually played on her while under construction. More complex details like skylight numbers and locations can become confused but I believe colors are probably easier to remember, being more distinct. I've looked at Colonial pearl colors and they're very pretty pastel shades. Apparently McKay appreciated this shade a lot. As far back as his very first Extreme Clipper "Stag Hound" pearl is probably his most consistent color used. Likewise blue waterways were a very consistent paint scheme. I would consider painting the raised portions, bulwarks and carriage house railings white, the relief portion. Oddly enough, in the Samuel Walters painting, the turned rails surrounding her poop appear to be varnished wood with white rails while the entire carriage house rails are entirely white.
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Rob, I've been inside Mystic the recreated Seaport years ago. They are one of my favorite destinations. Mainly due to the Mystic Maritime Art Gallery which routinely features impressive original artwork of today's modern nautical art masters. As you know from my past year's interaction with your group, I am a purist when it comest to authenticity. As a result, while I have great respect for the talent of these modelers, usually their accuracy in scale leaves much to be desired. Even the historic "Glory of the Seas" model in JFK's Library, while impressive and beautiful crafted disappoints me due to its inaccuracies. I strongly suspect that our group due primarily to Mike's impressive photos and our mutual commitment to constructing meticulously accurate plans, will contribute to the most accurate miniatures ever.
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Rob, I didn't realize your first turned rails were for around the poop. Structurally they look great but in comparison to height, they're a little tall. As for the carriage house rails, you know those round toothpicks that are everywhere at restaurant cashiers? I would look into those at least as a starting point for stock to work with.
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Rob, after my simple exercise of scaling these rails down to where they're supposed to be, it gives me a greater appreciation for the challenging effort to replicate them. I see what you mean by them breaking as you try to make them skinnier and more accurate. Already yours are light years ahead of the mass produced ones. Obviously you prefer wood. I wonder though, would sculpey (the material Doris sculpts with) be an easier solution? From what I've read, it starts larger and then shrinks when heated in the oven. Just a thought, especially for the poop deck ones.
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Rob, as promised, here are my sketches of the turned rails as seen in the scene of her from the main deck. Note: the last teenie weenie two are to accurate scale. Good luck! After posting my 1st sketch, I realized I hadn't done larger versions of the turned rails that surround the pop deck. Here they are up to 3/4ths of an inch, which is huge in comparison to true scale on the left. The iron bar at the front ends is visible in the busy scene of the main deck, which also shows that those rails cant inwards significantly towards the front, straightens up towards the middle of the peop and then cants just slightly outwards as it rounds the Stern. Even the Carriage House turned rails aren't verticle, they too cant just slightly inwards. What I also find fascinating is that the front has two turned rails about 2' apart at both outer ends, with 8 more at equal distance. While the poop deck rails are too small to count, I managed to count 18 of the larger ones per side. Including the front but not yet counting the rear, I get 46.
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Rob, delicate work for this next step of your project is an understatement. At 3' height for the rear carriage house railings, they are a mere 3/8s of an inch to scale. Figuring the smaller stockier turned railings which surround the entire poop deck also come up to 3', when accounting for the 18" monkeyrail height upon which they sit, that leaves a mere 18" height for those. Again at 1:96th scale that's 3/16th of an inch! Curious as to what that actually looks like at scale, I sketched a few samples, which I'll share a little later. Tiny just doesn't even come close...
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Rob, these are absolutely beautiful. You even improved on the smaller size and grouping of the lowercase letters. Congratulations!
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Rob, where I come from, that's usually referred to as "Yankee Ingenuity." By Yankee I'm referring to as universally American, not just limited to New England States.
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Rob, when I view your incredible productivity, honestly 'lazy' is the last word that comes to my mind. I think, you, as usual are too hard on yourself. After all I don't see Michael Mjelde or his daughter knocking on anyone else's door....
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