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Everything posted by John Gummersall
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Brian and Cathead, I mis-quoted earlier when I said the instructions called for mounting the bull rails on the 1st two posts. In reality the instructions just said to "mount the bull rails" - do not really say where to mount them. I got the idea of the 1st two posts from looking at diagram #2 . Actually diagram #2 is old and really needs to be updated. Diagram #2 not only shows the bull rails mounted incorrectly(red highlight), it also shows part 39A extending forward (green highlight). Looking back at earlier build logs it was discovered (and reported to Model Expo) that 39A had to be trimmed back due to interference with the smoke stack covers. Model Expo took note of the exception and updated the instructions with the following comments. Also note that parts 39A P/S will have to be cut away at the forward ends where they are in the way of the smoke stacks. They did not update the fact that that the smoke stack covers also interfered with the bull rails causing them to be mounted farther back than on the diagram. Anyway, not a big deal, but for newbie's like myself that foolishly follow the instructions/diagrams, I thought I would point this out. Bull rails do not get mounted on the 1st two posts due to interference with the smoke stack covers
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Been awhile since I last posted,,,, Holidays and other stuff seems to have diverted me from building... Anyway I have not been completely idle. Started painting the boiler deck walls with air brush. There is defiantly a learning curve with one, but learning is pretty quick. All the window/doors have been painted, but not yet attached. Air Brush is defiantly the only way to paint those. Painting the window/doors with a rattle can or brush would be a challenge. After bending the steam valve pipe air brush comes in handy painting it copper. I know the steam pipe does not go directly into the smoke stacks, but bending was a challenge to me and once I got to touch the support, I did not want to risk messing it up. There is a slight indent opposite the steam pipe to accommodate the smoke stack so I guess we can assume the steam pipe goes through the support and into the stack 🙂 Instructions call to mount the bull rails on the first two support posts in the boiler room. Problem is, even though the boiler support structure is inside the support structure, the smoke stack protrudes outside the structure. So bull rails need to be attached to the 2nd/3rd supports posts. I do not think is "builder error" and instead a design flaw, but knowing my skill, builder error may have come into play. Below you can see the smoke stack bulging out just after the first support beam, Also still need to get out the alcohol and do a little glue cleanup. Earlier I glued the two front sections and two back sections of the boiler deck. I was planning on just gluing the two sections together when I attached them to the hull. But after thinking about it, why not just have the one deck piece and glue the entire deck onto the hull. I glued a few extra strips of wood over the joints to add a little more strength. That may have been overkill. And finally boiler deck was glued onto the hull with some additional (shall we say) "persuasion" to have it conform to the hull curve.
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Brian, As I indicated in my post..... I broke a lot of practice wood before I figured out bending around a solid pipe would help... "Dumb you get early smart you get late"
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It has been awhile since I last posted... Lots of non-model building activities had grabbed my attention. I should be back at it for awhile. 🙂 Even though the main deck is not quite completed I wanted to try my hand at bending the four boiler deck walls. The sharp angles of those curves to me just seemed like a great opportunity to break the walls in the bending process. Especially since they want you to increase the slots in the wood to make it even thinner... and do it dry instead of wetting the wood. Anyway, knowing I would be breaking a lot of wood I wanted to practice those bends with some spare wood. I highly suggest you do that if you can. After breaking a number of test pieces trying to get the curve correct, I found a way that for me that worked well for someone of my limited skill level. For the larger forward curves I did soak the walls but instead of initially bending them in the supplied jig I bent them around a 1 1/2" PVC pipe. The problem with wetting the wood and using the supplied jig is that the wood wavers between the three jig curved sections. If there were maybe 5 curved sections in the jig instead of just 3 then wetting the wood probably would not be an issue. Wetting and bending around a pipe seems to have solved this issue. Once dry the final bend is pretty close to the required bend. Just a little off. At that point only rub a little water (so not to cause the walls to warp) on the wall and then put it into the intended jig. Since the jig is only putting in the final bend it works great and no danger of breaking the wall section End result is a curve that works and easily accepts parts 84A (top and bottom) to secure the curve And dry fitting to the boiler deck - should be ready for adding the battens and painting The aft bends are a little more difficult but the principal is the same. For these bends I used a 5/8" down rod to bend the wall around. That turned out OK but the bend was a little too sever. If you choose this method to bend you walls I might suggest trying a 3/4" or 1" dowel (or pvc pipe). Even so, after drying, re-wetting, and putting into the intended jig, the outcome is the same. A pretty good bend for the back wall. No matter how you choose to bend your walls,,,, practice, practice, practice on spare wood before actually bend the walls. It will save you a lot of tears.
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Brian, Thanks for you comments on the alignment, but I think I have it..... or at least the alignment with the main deck and the boiler deck. I learned the alignment lesson the hard way on the King of the Mississippi. That was one of my earlier models and I did not think about alignment until it was too late. Paid the price for that lesson. As for the cleats.... thanks for beating some sense into me... I had cleaned them up before mounting them, but I agree, they need to be painted. I should be able to paint them in place.
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With all the main floor parts prepared and painted, started the assembly. When I came to part 37B (the part above the main door way, it seemed to be a bit (1/16") off. Probably due to lack of builder skill, but I am going to rack it up as variations in the wood. Thus two 1/32" scrap pieces were added to each side of the piece. Seemed to fit better at that point. Will add some paint and glue into place. Also note I left the cleats unpainted. To me, I just like the look of metal cleats.... Not realistic, and I may paint them later on,,,, but for now, I need to think about that. 🙂 Assembly continues As mentioned earlier, boiler system not glued in at this time. I wanted to dry fit the boiler room floor (main floor ceiling) just to verify the exact location of the boilers When preparing the boiler room floor (parts 49 A/B & 50 A/B) it talks about turning them over and gluing some small strips of wood along bottom (main floor ceiling) to strengthen the seams. It also makes note to place them where they will not be seen or interfere with any of the main floor structures. Rather then doing that I choose to place the strips on the other side where I know they will not be seen and will not interfere with any structures. Hope I am not shooting myself in the foot here, but it seems like a good thing to do. Time will tell. Finally, laying the boiler room floor pieces in place I can exactly place the boiler in order to correctly accept the smoke stack covers. Picture is not completely accurate as it seems the boiler moved between lining it up and taking the picture, but you get the idea. To me, with my lack of skill, (and variations on wood), there is no way that boiler would have lined up correctly if I just glued it in place where it was indicated on the plans. It would have had to have been off by a little bit. This way the stacks will line up and if the boiler is 1/32" or 1/16" out of place it will not be noticeable.
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Brian, Yes I used the 1.6mm and the 1.2mm rivets from Model Motercars. Below is the exact description Item SKU Rivet - 1.2 mm Head Diameter - Brass - RT12 Rivet - 1.6 mm Head Diameter - Brass - RT16 1.6mm rivets are great for the larger ones, but I might suggest the 1.0mm or maybe even smaller for the smaller rivets. As you can see on my model, the 1.2mm rivets kind of overwhelms the parts they attach to. I think smaller would be better for those. As for the heads of the rivets, I cut off most of the shaft but left a little stub to insert into a drilled hole. In order to do that you need a .5mm drill bit. If you have one, then drill a small hole and with a touch of CA glue the rivet easily sticks into the hole. If you do not have a .5mm bit then you would have to cut off the head and attach with CA. John
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Brian, Thanks for your comments,,,, as for the "added walls for the front of the machine room", I kind got the idea (or stole the idea) from your log. You built a really neat wall structure of cargo crates to help cover the opening. They look great and add a nice touch to the model.
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Stairs are complete. The extra longer risers nicely closes the gap between them and the tread. At long last all the compartment components for the main floor are complete and ready for installation. Below are the walls for the aft compartment. Horizonal strips (1/8" x 1/8") were added at the top of the wall (per instructions) to provide a better gluing surface for the boiler deck. In addition I added some vertical strips to provide a little vertical support in the event I am feeling strong and attempt to press down a little too hard when gluing the boiler deck to the main deck walls :-). One additional feature I added was two partial walls at the front end of the aft compartments. The are circled in black. Instructions say to leave that open, but to me that is really a big opening. On the finished model, one looking into the model from the side could easily see the gapping wide open compartment and rough inside walls. The two walls do not completely fill the gap so it looks more like a small opening into the aft compartments. Turn the pieces over and we have the finished walls. Again the two extra partial walls are circled in black. Below are the foreword compartment walls. Still need to attach the 4 cleats to parts 37A. Other than that, I am ready to mount the walls. Speaking of the cleats, I am not sure if the author is a comedian or I just do not have the correct skills, but in regards to mounting the cleats, the instructions say "A professional modeler would likely drill and pin the cleats" IF that is the case, then I am defiantly not a professional modeler. I have some small drill bits (.3mm) but no way would I even think of drilling and pining these cleats. Below shows the one of the small cleats (on the tip of my finger) to be added to part 37A. In my case CA glue will have to do.
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I agree with others..... Your planking is really good. Ship looks great so far.
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Brian, Thanks for the tip on mounting the rudders. I was planning on mounting them now as I thought they would be "more or less" out of the way. But I did not think of potential clearance issues with the paddlewheel down the line. I like your idea of holding off until I see what sort of clearance fun I have with the paddlewheel. As far as the stairs are concerned, I seem to have stumbled on a solution. It seems the risers and runners are about 1/8" by something really thin (maybe 1/64"). I had some extra 1/16" x 5/32 strips and if I remake the risers with these strips the steps seem to work out. As you can see the 1/16" x 5/32 strips are about 1/32" wider then the original risers (and a little thicker. By just replacing the risers the steps seem to fit. The extra height fills the front gap and the extra thickness fill the gap in the bap. In the below picture the top two steps seem a little short, but I have a slight outward warp in the walls at the top of the stairs. When I bring them in, all will (or should) look like the third step. We will see what happens after the new risers are painted and put into place. As long as we are talking about a little fudging,,,, there is supposed to be a 1/16" x 1/8" capstrip all around the edge of the boiler deck. Instructions talk a lot about how to bend the strips around the forward and stern corners. The two stern corners seem especially "fun" as those corners are really sharp. Purest will roll their eyes on this, but to me it makes a lot for sense to bend two 1/32" x 1/8" strips instead of one 1/16" x 1/8" strip. After soaking them, they bend ready easy and at my skill level will save me a lot of headaches. I can see me breaking a lot of 1/16" x 1/8" strips trying to make those stern bends. Below shows the strips drying around the four boiler deck sections. The two stern sections are in the foreground and the two bow sections are in the background. At this point you can easily see the two 1/32" x 1/8" strips laying back to back. But later on after the deck is planked and these strips are glued into place and sanded, the seems in between them will not be noticeable.
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While waiting for layers of Poly to dry I started on the main floor stairs. Initially to me these looked pretty easy.... Especially if you know anything about building the circular stairs on the "King of the Mississippi". That was a real treat. Anyway I guess I am just have a thing for stairs as I seem to have made every mistake you can make (several times) with just the initial structure below, I put the two stringer fascia pieces (parts that hold the treads and risers) backwards, upside down, on the wrong side of the walls, walls upside down.... You just can not imagine how many time I had break then down and redo them. Fortunately pure alcohol is great for loosening wood glue. And as you can see below, with all the alcohol rubs and redo's the walls have become a little warped... I guess I will need to wet them again and press them back into shape. I would say be careful and get the parts correct the first time, but I think most people would think this is a pretty easy thing and just my fun with stairs. Completed the painting of the stairs steps and the main floor window, doors, and vents. Up until now I have only used rattle cans of paint, but I finally broke down and purchased and air brush. Not sure I could have painted these small part with a rattle can and not drown the parts in paint. Air brush did the job pretty nice and easy. Next level of fun will be attaching the risers and runners to the stringer fascia pieces. Naturally after dry fitting a few of them, I realized some of the stringer fascia pieces are just a smudge longer than the risers and runners. So looks like they will not just drop into place. Will take some adjustments to not show a tiny gap between some of the steps. So much for me thinking these stairs were going to be easy.. Began working on the rudders. Not sure why, but I decided to cover the rudders with planking. I thought it would make them look a little more realistic, but after you paint them, not sure that was necessary. After planking them I used some wood strips and covered the edges of the rudders... Again,,, why did I do this again? One thing I did do that to me made a little more sense was to apply some extra wood strips on the outside of the rudders where the rudder shafts roughly where the rudder shafts were located. It kind of looks like they are there for extra support for the rudder shafts. In reality they really are there to make a little box for the rudder shaft to be inserted. Without these walls there is very little surface to glue rudder shafts and a round dowel into a slit in the rudder just would not look right. This way a little glue into the box will make it much easier to glue the rudders into the rudder shafts in the hull, and kind of looks like it is supposed to be there. My opinion anyway,, And the rudder posts sticking out of the hull that will eventually accept the rudders.
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One thing I might add, but not really an issue... The instructions state to put in piece #57 right after the deck is laid. Then later on drill the holes for the rudder posts. As the picture shows below, with #57 in place, it is pretty difficult to get a small power drill into position in order to drill the perpendicular holes. Unless you plan to pin vise your way through the stern piece, attach a long drill bit to the very end of the drill. That way, even though the bit is barely in the drill, it should be long enough to drill through to the bottom. I suggest you drill the rudder posts before you epoxy in piece #57. Also, the instructions naturally state the holes need to be perpendicular to the hull and suggests using the supplied right angle template to help keep the drill plumb. Problem is, the hull is not vertical at this point. It is tilting upwards at the stern. So you can pretty much skip the supplied right angle template to help keep the drill plumb.
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Juhu, I did not make an attempt to match up the planking with the actual Chaperon. I just like the 1,3,5,2,4 pattern with planking so I went that. Since you are interested in being a authentic as possible, take a look at the 3D viewing of the Chaperon. It was sent to my by mbp521 (brian) and gives a real good look at the Chaperon.. 3D virtual walkthrough of the Chaperon https://www.jensmittelbach.de/steamboats/chaperon/index.html Brian, Thanks for the reminder on the fantail extensions. Since I epoxied them, I kind of forget about them.... But epoxy or not, I agree they need to be treated with care, or there will be some tears. Planking trim and sanding have been completed. Plan to stain and add a couple coats of poly. Again,,,,, the real Chaperon had painted decks,,,,, but like the planking pattern, I just like the looks of a natural planked deck 🙂 Not sure if this will end up being good or bad, but note the below closeup of the decking. Earlier in the log I mentioned the fact that I was concerned about later gluing the 1/16" x 1/4" rub rail to side of the 1/16" deck. As such I added a 1/8" strip under it to provide a better gluing surface. After the deck was planked (1/32" strips) you have to cut out the notches for the later stationaries. Below you see the notches cut out, but instead of cutting the notch through all three layers of wood, I just cut out the notch into the planking and the actual deck. The notch does not go all the way through the added 1/8" strip. You can go through the strip if you like (and probably would have been easier), but this way I figured I would have solid base for the stationary. Again, this is probably is the category of way overkill, but that is how my mind works,,,,, "Why do something easy when you can make it hard".
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Cathead and Brian, Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I really appreciate them. As for the variation color, I think after a sanding, stain, and poly, they will look OK,,, No so worried about it any more. I really like the idea of blacking the entire 24" strip and then only have to blacken the ends. As of today (pictures below) I have completed the main deck planking, but I will try that approach on the next boiler deck. Still have to trim around the edges, but the planking of the main deck as completed. As mentioned earlier, the area's not planked are much smaller than what is called for in order to hide the none planked area if one is looking on from the side. I do like the Brian's idea of painting that area black instead of all the extra planking,,,,, but then again "dumb you get early, smart you get late". I will consider that suggestion when planking the next deck. Despite my best efforts by the time the planking got to the edges the lines were not completely straight. There was about a 1/32" difference on a small section of the starboard side (top) and a little longer section on the port (bottom) side. Rather than try and squeeze in some 1/32" square planks I decided it would be much easier to put in a 3/32" plank and then trim off the excess. On the port (bottom) side the picture got a bit skewed. In the picture that edge looks pretty curvy. It really is pretty straight. Tomorrow is trimming and sanding day... and perhaps stain too if all looks good.
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Jason, The Oseberg has been on my with list for some time now. Someday I would like to take it on. It may be awhile though as my current project is the Chaperon (Steamship) and that will take me awhile. However I am anxious to view your build. Hope you have fun with it john
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Planking ongoing,,,,, I really really wish I decided to use 20' (5") planks instead of 12" (3"). I am getting real tired of cutting, blackening, and gluing each of the 3" planks. Even though the 1/8" etched lines are very helpful with keeping the planking straight, with variations in the wood planks, it is very easy to stray with the planking and get our of line. Ask me how I know this 🙂 It is a rather large model with long decking. Play close attention to you plank lines. The black dot (marked in green) is where the little dowel attached to the bottom of the boiler ash catcher is supposed to be inserted. I assume this is to insure the boiler is located in the correct sport for the smoke stacks to fit into the holes in the boiler deck. Somehow I am imaging alignment issues when I add on the boiler deck, so I did not attach the little dowel to the ash catcher. I marked it with a pencil for general reference, but I wanted to have a little "play" as to where the boiler is located. To me, pinning down the boiler to one exact spot, with all the other variables in ship building, somehow to is asking for alignment issues. We will see if I regret this decision later on. The area in red is space under the boiler and can not bee seen. So no sense planking it. However that space is much smaller than the actual size designate by the etched lines on the deck. Test fitting the boiler with the supplied etched lines I realized if I only planked to the etched lines, when looking at the model you would see the missing planking under the boiler. This way when the boiler is in place, it will looked like the planks go all the way under the boiler. It is also painfully obvious the variations of color on the planking strips. Hopefully when I get to staining it they will more blend together... We'll see, but not much I can do about it. Instead of 1/8"x1/8" boards all around the aft cabin area, I choose to use 3/32"x3/32" boards. Probably way overkill as 1/8"x1/8" boards would probably supply ample gluing surface, but I just wanted a little extra gluing help. I just know it will be lots of fun trying to square up the walls at the corners. Hopefully the little extra gluing surface will help. The boards in black below are the normal 1/8"x1/8" boards and they do not go all the way to the designated end. Here again I did not want someone looking into that area and see the boards. Stopping short still provides plenty of gluing area at the end of the wall. The wall itself will go all the way to the designated end spot. Same issue with the main opening amidships. The boards in black are 1/8"x1/8" and they do not go all the way to the designated end. Again just to avoid them showing when looking at the finished model. Similar to the amidships section in yellow. Same over planking the designated area to avoid showing areas not planked. Not sure I had to do all the over planking, but easy do do now and do not want to risk wishing I had done it later on.
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As you say the original Chaperon had painted red decks, but I too plan to have just stain and poly my decks. After all the work, I have a hard time covering them up with paint. As for 20' decks, I really wish I had done that. Cutting, marking the edges, and gluing these 3" planks is driving me crazy. A 20' (5") plank would have been so much easier... And I guess more authentic too. I am about 1/2 way down the hull. I will post some pictures later today.
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Brian, Thanks for your comments.... As I mentioned earlier, and as you have said, it is (and will be) a very long process. I am about 1/5 of the way down the main deck. We had guest over for the Labor Day weekend so shipbuilding came to a grinding halt. For those of you who plan to plank the deck, I really recommend using 1/8"x1/32" planking. 1/32" thick plans will not throw off an measurements that might effect the model later on, and the 1/8" width "more or less" matches up with the 1/8" etching on the planks. Various wood thickness and such you will not be able to stay in the 1/8" etching lines, but they are a good guide to at least help you keep the planking straight. In my case I tried to simulate a 12' plank, so my planks were 3" in length. Planking a 34" main deck (and eventually the boiler deck) 3"x1/8" is a lesson in patience. I am going "nuts" staring at planking and trying to keep the 1,3,5,2,4 patter straight. I do not know if the Chaperon used 20' planks, but if they did, in the name of being more accurate (and not going crazy with planking), by all means use the simulated 20' planks which would come to 5" on the model. You can thank me later.
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Per instructions I epoxied part 57 to the deck and parts 51 A/B to 57. If you are not careful and get to think you know what you are doing, it is very easy to epoxy parts 51 A/B upside down (with the curved side up). Ask me how I know that 🙂 Mistake has been corrected and 51 A/B are correctly epoxied with the curved side down. After the epoxy set up the aft end of the deck was bent upward and glued to parts 51 P/S. Still need to clean up some of the glue and touch up the paint. The black epoxy will not be seen once the walls are up. As mentioned earlier, I planned to plank the main deck and the boiler deck. Below show the beginning of the very long process of planking the main deck. Even though I do not plan to plank the parts of the deck that are not shown, it will still be a very long process. Each plank simulates a 12' plank and is 1/8"x3". For the caulk lines I used the usual #2 pencil on each plank. On a 34" boat I am going to be at this for awhile. I am using a 1,3,5,2,4 pattern and plan to carve out each hole in the deck as I go along. To my simple mind, the hardest part of this 1,3,5,2,4 pattern is the bow section. As the bow curves away, I have a really hard time keeping track of the pattern. However, once the bow section is complete, the straight run down the hull should be much easier. Famous last words 🙂
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Yard Sale stuff removed, Starboard side glued down, and Yard Sale stuff piled on the Starboard side. Once dry and removed, ready for planking. Just gotta love those nasty seams in the middle. Actually, the seams in the middle not not much better. I had always planned to plank the deck, so not a big deal. I plan to plank with "1/32"x"1/8" strips. The trick will be to keep track of all those holes and transcribe them onto the planking. One thing I forgot to mention earlier when I was talking about the temporary stand the hull is attached to while building. Note in green below, the stand extends a few extra inches to "somewhat" protect those skinny extensions off the back of the hull against something sliding up against them or moving the boat and accidentally sliding it into something. Not fool proof, but hopefully will prevent some tears.
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Marcus, Brian is correct. I got them at Micromark. You need to get these clamps.... They are great when a plank needs a little extra (shall we say) "persuasion", or in a tight spot where a normal clamp will not fit.
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With hull as good as I can make it, time to mount it on it's temporary base. To me having a steady base for building is a must. This way I can push and tug on stuff as the build progresses and not have to worry about the ship moving on me. Before putting on the decking, this is a really good time to trim off 3/16" from the top of the keel to make room for the eventual 1/16" x 1/4" strips that form the rub rail and go all the way around the deck. Note trimming off only 3/16"allows for the 1/16" x 1/4" trim strip that also cover the 1/16" decking. Below decking is just laid on the hull at this time - not glued. The area in green blow is some trimming of some of the extra trim I added earlier to make the gluing of the rub rail easier. Last minute measure of the space for the eventual rub rail. Port side of the hull decking attached. A real "yard sale" of stuff used to hold down the decking 🙂
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