Egilman

Yeah I was thinking about that as well. But the problem is the powders are not fixed to the surface, they just lay on top of it... Surface cohesion is the term for it nothing "attaches" the powder to the finish. touch it and it comes off for the same reason liquids lift, discolor and move it.... It would keep the hand oils off the surface though and the damage would be reduced, but it would still be there slowly ruining the finish.... And then you still have to decal over it.... more liquids....

Except the varnish lifts the powder off the surface thereby darkening the varnish to a darker grey.... I"ve yet to find a liquid sealer that doesn't to this.... It's the ticket for accurate BMF, IF you can find a sealer that works...

Hey brother Thank you, it isn't going to work unfortunately, you still have decals to put on the aluminum surface and any liquid you put on it including water is going to move the buffed on metal..... This is why even lightly brushing it with perfectly clean hands leaves finger oil marks..... You can't put anything over it... So the truth is it doesn't matter what is done first, you cannot preserve the metal finish using Uschi's metal powders....... I"m sure they have their uses for fine detail work, but for an overall finish they are out... And that is sad, cause they do such a beautiful, accurate metal finish.... EG

Well, it's why we do these type of things, try out other products.. I think we now know why this hasn't been used for BMF's on models. (at least not that I can find) The finish is toast and has to come off... The tape peeled it right down to the gloss sealed black paint... Which means that the only thing keeping this on the model is surface cohesion. The powder doesn't really stick to anything like paint does..... But I believe I know how it gets it's surface shine now not that it matters any... and why it turns dark when you try to seal it. It's never going to work for a BMF on a model.... not possible... As far as removing the finish, IPA takes it off, right down to the sealed black paint... might take a little light scrubbing, but other than the mess no sweat.... I may do a little more testing with these powders to find if there is a modeling product that will seal it without lifting it... That's why it turns dark when you seal it, the sealer lifts the powder off the surface because it is breaking the surface cohesion and suspending the powder in the sealer so it turns the original color of the powder... Dark dark grey..... but is still glossy from the sealer itself and retains some of it's shine. I don't suspect that there is a solution.... Yeah I've been saving that walkaround for a while since it is an early "C" model it's exactly what I'm representing... and the experienced pilot commentary is wonderful also... Anyway, figuring what the next course of action is here so it will be a bit before another update... I'm not giving up on her, just having a setback... EG

Yep freshly polished, they looked like a mirror.... That's not what I'm going for.... This is more along the lines of what I'm going for..... But I don't think I"m going to get it in any case... When they weren't freshly polished they took on the whitish haze of aluminum while retaining a bit of reflectivity.... which in bright sunlight would give it a bluish cast... But I"m pretty sure I'm not going to be able to do it.... I was going to mask off the fuselage and paint the wings before I polished it again... this is how far I got... That's lightly grabbing frisket masking tape just touched then pulled for repositioning.... took the finish right along with it.... Tore off the finish without any pressure at all.... so I"m going to have to figure another way... this showed a lot of promise to do an accurate metal finish...... But it's just too fragile to work with..........

Yeah all those polished aluminum fuselages have that whitish tinted blueish reflective look, that is what I'm aiming for, if I can preserve it...

Thank you Lou.... There is one pic I posted that even remotely resembles that CGI glowing spaceship and I took it deliberately to capture the sun reflection, I had a reason and in the right position that is exactly how an F-104 or any other polished bare aluminum metal airplane looked...... The rest of the pics looked darned close to the real thing... If your talking about those tiny what looks like individual panels, (they really aren't) I think that would be next to impossible to replicate. And the panels on the rear fuselage, those aren't heat discolored they are a different metal altogether.... The proof of this is in all the full color photos of these birds in Vietnam in painted camo. (including that different colored tail) you don't see the camo paint discoloring and burning off like you do on an F-100... They had a system of bypass airflow which kept the outer fuselage panels relatively cool while in flight and cool enough when on the ground so you could touch them with the engine running... they were warm yes, but not warm enough to burn..... I haven't found out yet what metal they were made of, but there were three bands, two outer narrow bands and a middle wide one. I'm pretty sure the inner band was stainless, and I believe the two outer panels are titanium..... But I haven't found out yet and not all of them had the same panel patterns... That aircraft is #13269 of the 69th fighter training squadron out of Luke AFB in '68-69 (the Fighting 69th) and is an F-104G so the tail panels wouldn't match anyway..... I have a pic of 57-0915, the sister ship to 57-0914 which is currently on display at the Lockheed Palmdale plant.... Currently in overall aircraft grey, (too expensive to keep it in bare metal) they have left the tail in it's natural finish, a steel band, a silver colored band and another steel band.... This, (along with 57-0914) was one of the two aircraft used to win the William Tell trophy by Cpt. Toffieri.... and is what I need to copy, if I can.... But to answer your question, I haven't figured that one out yet.....

Ok, another set of shots with two layers of metal... We had a bright sunny morning today so I figured that I would take it outside and see what it looks like in real natural light.... She looks the part for sure.. But, in figuring out how to seal it I screwed it up a bit, (very very easy to do, finger oils just ruin the finish even accidentally) So I've resealed it cause I can't currently handle it in BMF, it destroys the finish... As you can see, it goes back to being dark.... So the way forward is to paint off the wings, then when they are finished mask them off and redo the metal coat... all the while doing more testing on a clear finish that won't destroy the polished metal look... Otherwise this has been a huge waste of time... EG

Nice Job my friend.... You almost have a flight..... (need one more)

Hi Mark, it's got two on it now, I'm going to do a third but I'm going to paint off the wings first.... there is no way to handle it when the metal finish is buffed on... so right now it is in sealer so I can handle it... Now would be the time...

Thanks Brother, I'm still figuring out how I want to get this one finished, I"ve put another sealing coat over the current finish and am going to buff in another coat of metal... But I think I'm going to paint off the wings first before I powder buff it out again...... It's a beautiful surface finish, but very very easily damaged also.... Finding a permanent finish sealer for it is going to be an issue here...

Hi Ken, Thanks... There is no paint except the underlying base coat which has been sealed... the rest of it is metal powder rubbed into the surface in successive layers over their own sealing coats... When I first tried this on the intakes, I got it wrong and had to strip them and do it over.. The metal finish came off as a very very thin sheet of metal, thinner than leafing sheets after the paint let go.... When you apply it, your actually buffing metal into the finish...

Thanks Guys... That is the point of these powders, put a metal finish on a pre-painted subject... that actually looks like metal..... It's amazing in the effect it has.... It does have some issues though and I'm still figuring out the right technique of applying and preserving it...

Both if you really want them...

But at the rate he's building, he will be done before we are served, then where will be be?

That dash reminds me of the last winnebago I was in....

Hi everyone, Sorry I didn't get back faster, but I've been without the site for at least the last 12 hours..... just won't connect for some reason... I dunno I guess I'm not the only one either..... Anyway, I'll be posting some pics in a bit and addressing your comments my friends... EG

Well here is an update.... Polished metal, tell me what you think and be honest.... I'm not completely happy with it... It does look the part I think... but I would have done somethings a bit different now that I have this experience.... Tell me what you think.... EG

Last I left you all wondering if the sealing coat orange peeled.... Well I'm here to tell ya it didn't..... Very very relieved. the reason I get so worried is I had gone this far into a model once and had a sealing coat of clear over a gloss pain just ruin the whole thing.... I'm sure many of you have been there before, but when I get there I get a little anxious.... It has to be done and ruin can be the result... You learn to live with it... If that's the worst thing that ever happens to me, I'm good with it.... First coat of metal, don't expect it to be bright and shiny, there are still two steps to go yet...... Tail first.... Middle section.... Nose section..... And some overall shots.... I think the intakes came out ok, no major ripples or strange lines, not perfect mind you but more than good enough.... Now we varnish it and allow that to completely cure and we then go for the real polished effect.... More later... EG

It won't be that shiny brother... besides I won't be hitting it with any spotlights..... Anyway, first metal coat is on, of course it is dark, and not there yet. It needs another sealing and metal application to be ready for showing. Pics coming in a bit....

That is a thought, they do look good in black.....

I've got faith brother... I just don't completely trust rattlecans.... {chuckle} I'm now in the hand finishing portion so it will be ok... Update coming...

Thanks Chris, it's the most confounding thing I've ever had to deal with, and it happens right in the middle of my posting wheelhouse..... Frustrating... well I hope it goes away quickly...

Nice work, movin right along.... {chuckle}

Between the hours of 1:00pm and 6:00pm Pacific Standard Time, the site forum is inaccessible. It times out when trying to load... I can get to the NRG website and any where else I usually travel, just NOT the forum. I tried re-booting, I've tried Firefox and Chrome It doesn't matter... I contacted the ISP to see if they were doing anything, (I'm paying for unlimited bandwidth) And they say no, they aren't doing anything that would take sites offline or limit access, it is a site issue.... So I'm asking, is there something going on in the background you guys are reconfiguring that has the potential to cause the site to go offline during those hours? Three days in a row at exactly the same times... EG