Don Case
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To get the length of the pieces I just looked at the grain compared to the amount of bend. I may have been too cautious. I managed to download Batchvarov's thesis. Thanks
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OK, I've got the length about right. I knew mine were a little shallow but that's because I had to fair out the inside more than I thought. Part of the learning curve😕. I took the length from a drawing that Alan posted for me a while back. Then I was looking at a few builds and their chocks looked a lot shorter, closer to a 1 or 2:1. I'm surprised at how strong they are. I was doing a little drum sanding on one and it caught and got flung across the room like a frisbee. It survived. A sort of related question. When were chocks used and when were scarfs used? Just looking at them I don't see a lot of difference in strength. Were chocks used as a wood saving method?
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HMS Discovery 1789 by Don Case - 1:48
Don Case replied to Don Case's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1751 - 1800
I've been negligent with my log. I got all confused and just forgot. Shoot me I'm old🙂 I think I got the transoms all sorted. They look like a plank will follow the shape and I guess that's the point. Once I stopped fretting about stuff beyond what little plans I have it's smoothed out some. I've discovered(Thank you everyone) that frames are usually double(bend) so now I have to make a duplicate of each frame. I've got ten partially done since yesterday. Each one of these need six chocks inserted. I'm taking pictures of the process as it goes and then I will post my frame making system for your criticism. I'm sure it can be improved. I tried cutting out patterns and gluing them to the wood and then cutting and assembling them but I had no joy with that. Anyway here's where she sits. I still have to do a lot more fairing but it's reasonably close.
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How did the Spanish arrange them😃, no, wait, I don't want to know😵
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Cross piece?? I've noticed that station 0 got a little crowded at times. 🙂 Why would they care if the frames were facing the same direction? I decided I was going to study the Aquilon to see how things went and I got all caught up in trying to read the numbers of the sections and the scale. I still haven't sorted that out. Old English numerals, is there such a thing?
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I have been messing with these frames for two weeks and not really gaining ground until the last couple of days. I thought of asking twice but I thought that would be frowned on.
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I've done a little on the log but I don't seem to get questions answered there. If I want to be sure of an answer I put the question over here. I really haven't figured out what the log is for.
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Oh, I know that!!🙂 I'm not sure I'm building the frames right. Maybe I'll show how I do it on my log.
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Thanks to all you guys for taking the time to try and clue me in. I think I'm making progress. Unfortunately I think it means making another 34 single frames, the second half of the ones I've already done. I think these will go a little faster as I now have a pattern for each. I'll use a lot less wood too. I may have to live with single cant frames as I've already glued them in.
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I'm looking at Longridge pg 19 Fig9. It's labeled as "Normal Admiralty System". Does this mean the way models were built or the way the real ships were built? I can see now what you're talking about with a floor and the first futtock. I've looked at this figure a dozen times and never quite understood. In the text on pg18 he says each frame has two floors. Is that little chock-like thing in the figure considered a floor timber. His arrow denoting "floor" doesn't point at it. So we would have one long and one short floor timber and then the futtocks alternating single frames up to the top?
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Yeah, I just start to think I'm understanding this and then read something that puts it all in doubt again. Everyone says things slightly differently so I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around it. You wrote " (a floor + a first futtock)=24" ". I thought a futtock went on top of a floor. Back to the books😕
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English is good, one country at a time🙂 I think you're getting me on the right track. I had it stuck in my head that R&S was one single frame and some space. I thought the " The measurement can be roughly estimated as twice the fore an aft breadth of a single frame plus between 2in and 6in" was just that, an estimate of the R&S. So now I have to decide between real and Admiralty. Real means making another 35 or so frames. I think I'll do some looking at Admiralty, I was looking forward to gluing in some frames and I actually have glued in all the cant frames. HMmmm Thanks I think I just learned something.
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Rabbet
Don Case replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Thank you. I think I've got it now. -
I'm confused. I went looking in "Scantlings". The sorta average R&S is around 26" or so. The sorta average sided dimension of a frame is around 12" or so. So they are very roughly 50/50 room and space. Then I look at the "Aquilon" and its almost solid wood from stem to stern. There is very little "space". What am I missing?
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Good point, I never thought about breeching lines. Actually I had to look up what they were.
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That's really surprising but I guess even spacing of the guns was important so the crews had equal space to work in. Was it that important to have a full frame on either side of the port? I was thinking something like this might be the answer. Excuse the primitive "CAD" work😉
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I'm starting to glue in square frames on the Discovery1789. The first ones have a gun port. My R&S is 28", frames are 11" and the gun ports are 29". The drawings show that one side of the port is up against a frame but that leaves the other side kind of hanging out in "space"🙂 I've seen offset frames but this is too much to offset I think. The picture shows the frames and the piece of masking tape is about 1/8" narrower than the gun port. The R&S is speculation so I could change that a bit. How do I frame that?
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Rabbet
Don Case replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Well, I wondered about that but I was under the impression that the edge of the plank should be left square. Wouldn't the angle on the edge of the plank limit the amount of caulking the could be squeezed in there? -
On the Discovery for at least half of the ship the bottom is almost flat. The garboard plank will be almost 90° to the keel. Does this mean that the rabbet is very shallow, almost non-existent in that area?
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I've been using a tablesaw for hobbies on and off for 50 years and I never felt comfortable using one. I was looking at the saw today and it dawned on me. If I lower The blade and slide the fence over to the other side the saw becomes left handed. What a treat! Now every thing feels right. Something you righties might not think about is how lefties go through their lives making right handed stuff work. Because of that I never even gave a tablesaw a second thought. Now I just have to make sure I don't get too comfortable. After 73 years I've still got all ten fingers and I'd like to keep it that way.
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Making Knees
Don Case replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Thanks Mark, that's an interesting project. -
I've looked at many builds and I've seen one thing that seems to stand out. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. It looks to me like all of these ships are built very much the same, at least for a give time period. I look at Longridge and Dan Vadas build and all the same pieces are there. Slightly different shape maybe, but basically the same. Have you ever looked at a plan and said, "Whoa, that's different!" or do they all follow the same basic model?
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Body plan line
Don Case replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Nice even sneeze😃 -
Making Knees
Don Case replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
I would like to look at your Wanderer but how do you get there from here.
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