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Dan Vadas

Gone, but not forgotten
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  1. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from yvesvidal in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    I think I've worked out why it's taken Stephan a couple of years to get a little bit past this stage - the wheels  . One wheel took me 12 hours to make - 17 more to go. At this stage I'm only making one large and one small wheel, as I need to check a few measurements before continuing on with the brake assemblies, and my laser-cut frames and wheels are still on the way from Poland.
     
    The parts for one of the driving wheels. Nearly every part needed to be laminated to 1mm thick card. I'd ordered 10 sheets of 0.5mm and 10 of 1mm card from GPM two weeks ago, it arrived yesterday (pretty good for them). This card is MUCH easier to cut than the far denser card I'd bought from Officeworks :

    One wheel finished :


    You may notice that I'd scraped the gluing surface of one of the red discs. Most of the red parts have a coating on them, probably clear lacquer, which doesn't glue very well.
     
    Danny
  2. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from yvesvidal in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    The rear bogie is much more complex. There's about a week of work involved in this. Once again a lot of rivets. I used the laser-cut ones for this, as cutting about 200 1mm diameter rivets was not an option. I pre-painted them before cutting them off the sheet. They were supplied in black, a thin coat of grey spray primer was applied first followed by artist's acrylics vermillion straight from the tube which was a very good match :


     
    Aligning each part was critical to the outcome. I used 2mm and 3mm tubing wherever I could to ensure that :

     
    The parts for the brake/suspension assembly frames :

     
    Fitting the brake/suspension frames to the main bogie frame :



     
    The completed rear bogie :



     
    Danny
  3. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from Captain Slog in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    Major slackness on my part, as far as updating this log goes and not in the amount I've accomplished. Sorry about that, I hope the following couple of posts make up for that  .
     
    The front bogie, which only has a pair of wheels attached. Not a lot of pics unfortunately, but the last one shows the completed unit ready for fitting to the main frame (when I finish that) :




     
    More in the next post, Danny.
  4. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from FriedClams in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    I think I've worked out why it's taken Stephan a couple of years to get a little bit past this stage - the wheels  . One wheel took me 12 hours to make - 17 more to go. At this stage I'm only making one large and one small wheel, as I need to check a few measurements before continuing on with the brake assemblies, and my laser-cut frames and wheels are still on the way from Poland.
     
    The parts for one of the driving wheels. Nearly every part needed to be laminated to 1mm thick card. I'd ordered 10 sheets of 0.5mm and 10 of 1mm card from GPM two weeks ago, it arrived yesterday (pretty good for them). This card is MUCH easier to cut than the far denser card I'd bought from Officeworks :

    One wheel finished :


    You may notice that I'd scraped the gluing surface of one of the red discs. Most of the red parts have a coating on them, probably clear lacquer, which doesn't glue very well.
     
    Danny
  5. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from FriedClams in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    The rear bogie is much more complex. There's about a week of work involved in this. Once again a lot of rivets. I used the laser-cut ones for this, as cutting about 200 1mm diameter rivets was not an option. I pre-painted them before cutting them off the sheet. They were supplied in black, a thin coat of grey spray primer was applied first followed by artist's acrylics vermillion straight from the tube which was a very good match :


     
    Aligning each part was critical to the outcome. I used 2mm and 3mm tubing wherever I could to ensure that :

     
    The parts for the brake/suspension assembly frames :

     
    Fitting the brake/suspension frames to the main bogie frame :



     
    The completed rear bogie :



     
    Danny
  6. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from reklein in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    I think I've worked out why it's taken Stephan a couple of years to get a little bit past this stage - the wheels  . One wheel took me 12 hours to make - 17 more to go. At this stage I'm only making one large and one small wheel, as I need to check a few measurements before continuing on with the brake assemblies, and my laser-cut frames and wheels are still on the way from Poland.
     
    The parts for one of the driving wheels. Nearly every part needed to be laminated to 1mm thick card. I'd ordered 10 sheets of 0.5mm and 10 of 1mm card from GPM two weeks ago, it arrived yesterday (pretty good for them). This card is MUCH easier to cut than the far denser card I'd bought from Officeworks :

    One wheel finished :


    You may notice that I'd scraped the gluing surface of one of the red discs. Most of the red parts have a coating on them, probably clear lacquer, which doesn't glue very well.
     
    Danny
  7. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from Captain Slog in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    I think I've worked out why it's taken Stephan a couple of years to get a little bit past this stage - the wheels  . One wheel took me 12 hours to make - 17 more to go. At this stage I'm only making one large and one small wheel, as I need to check a few measurements before continuing on with the brake assemblies, and my laser-cut frames and wheels are still on the way from Poland.
     
    The parts for one of the driving wheels. Nearly every part needed to be laminated to 1mm thick card. I'd ordered 10 sheets of 0.5mm and 10 of 1mm card from GPM two weeks ago, it arrived yesterday (pretty good for them). This card is MUCH easier to cut than the far denser card I'd bought from Officeworks :

    One wheel finished :


    You may notice that I'd scraped the gluing surface of one of the red discs. Most of the red parts have a coating on them, probably clear lacquer, which doesn't glue very well.
     
    Danny
  8. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from thibaultron in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    I think I've worked out why it's taken Stephan a couple of years to get a little bit past this stage - the wheels  . One wheel took me 12 hours to make - 17 more to go. At this stage I'm only making one large and one small wheel, as I need to check a few measurements before continuing on with the brake assemblies, and my laser-cut frames and wheels are still on the way from Poland.
     
    The parts for one of the driving wheels. Nearly every part needed to be laminated to 1mm thick card. I'd ordered 10 sheets of 0.5mm and 10 of 1mm card from GPM two weeks ago, it arrived yesterday (pretty good for them). This card is MUCH easier to cut than the far denser card I'd bought from Officeworks :

    One wheel finished :


    You may notice that I'd scraped the gluing surface of one of the red discs. Most of the red parts have a coating on them, probably clear lacquer, which doesn't glue very well.
     
    Danny
  9. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from Captain Slog in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    The rear bogie is much more complex. There's about a week of work involved in this. Once again a lot of rivets. I used the laser-cut ones for this, as cutting about 200 1mm diameter rivets was not an option. I pre-painted them before cutting them off the sheet. They were supplied in black, a thin coat of grey spray primer was applied first followed by artist's acrylics vermillion straight from the tube which was a very good match :


     
    Aligning each part was critical to the outcome. I used 2mm and 3mm tubing wherever I could to ensure that :

     
    The parts for the brake/suspension assembly frames :

     
    Fitting the brake/suspension frames to the main bogie frame :



     
    The completed rear bogie :



     
    Danny
  10. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from thibaultron in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    Major slackness on my part, as far as updating this log goes and not in the amount I've accomplished. Sorry about that, I hope the following couple of posts make up for that  .
     
    The front bogie, which only has a pair of wheels attached. Not a lot of pics unfortunately, but the last one shows the completed unit ready for fitting to the main frame (when I finish that) :




     
    More in the next post, Danny.
  11. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from egkb in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    Major slackness on my part, as far as updating this log goes and not in the amount I've accomplished. Sorry about that, I hope the following couple of posts make up for that  .
     
    The front bogie, which only has a pair of wheels attached. Not a lot of pics unfortunately, but the last one shows the completed unit ready for fitting to the main frame (when I finish that) :




     
    More in the next post, Danny.
  12. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from thibaultron in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    The rear bogie is much more complex. There's about a week of work involved in this. Once again a lot of rivets. I used the laser-cut ones for this, as cutting about 200 1mm diameter rivets was not an option. I pre-painted them before cutting them off the sheet. They were supplied in black, a thin coat of grey spray primer was applied first followed by artist's acrylics vermillion straight from the tube which was a very good match :


     
    Aligning each part was critical to the outcome. I used 2mm and 3mm tubing wherever I could to ensure that :

     
    The parts for the brake/suspension assembly frames :

     
    Fitting the brake/suspension frames to the main bogie frame :



     
    The completed rear bogie :



     
    Danny
  13. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from egkb in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    I think I've worked out why it's taken Stephan a couple of years to get a little bit past this stage - the wheels  . One wheel took me 12 hours to make - 17 more to go. At this stage I'm only making one large and one small wheel, as I need to check a few measurements before continuing on with the brake assemblies, and my laser-cut frames and wheels are still on the way from Poland.
     
    The parts for one of the driving wheels. Nearly every part needed to be laminated to 1mm thick card. I'd ordered 10 sheets of 0.5mm and 10 of 1mm card from GPM two weeks ago, it arrived yesterday (pretty good for them). This card is MUCH easier to cut than the far denser card I'd bought from Officeworks :

    One wheel finished :


    You may notice that I'd scraped the gluing surface of one of the red discs. Most of the red parts have a coating on them, probably clear lacquer, which doesn't glue very well.
     
    Danny
  14. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from hexnut in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    I think I've worked out why it's taken Stephan a couple of years to get a little bit past this stage - the wheels  . One wheel took me 12 hours to make - 17 more to go. At this stage I'm only making one large and one small wheel, as I need to check a few measurements before continuing on with the brake assemblies, and my laser-cut frames and wheels are still on the way from Poland.
     
    The parts for one of the driving wheels. Nearly every part needed to be laminated to 1mm thick card. I'd ordered 10 sheets of 0.5mm and 10 of 1mm card from GPM two weeks ago, it arrived yesterday (pretty good for them). This card is MUCH easier to cut than the far denser card I'd bought from Officeworks :

    One wheel finished :


    You may notice that I'd scraped the gluing surface of one of the red discs. Most of the red parts have a coating on them, probably clear lacquer, which doesn't glue very well.
     
    Danny
  15. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from yvesvidal in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    Welcome all  . Yep, quite a few Jan. There are only 180 part numbers, but a LOT of these are multiples of up to 12 or 15 individual parts. From memory they quoted about 2,000 on the website. And don't forget the 5,000 or so rivets  . Also all the wire "plumbing" etc.
     
    Thanks for that link to the German build log. The translation is terrible but understandable. Odd, considering that German to English isn't some obscure language swap. At least he's documented all the small problems he had with the laser-cut parts matching to the printed ones - perhaps some modification has been done by Modelik in the 4 years that he started building it. Jeez, he's slow  . At the rate I'm building I'll catch up with him in about 2 or 3 weeks, less if the laser-cut parts turn up in the next couple of days  . I only made my first cut 5 days ago, and bear in mind that I've had to laminate all those parts needed so far.
     
    Here are the pics of the right side frame (I'm holding off on the other side for now). There are 6 assemblies to each frame - a red outer skin, a grey middle one and a red inner one. Each printed piece is laminated to 0.65mm card. The two sets of 3 are joined in roughly the middle, as even A3 size sheets are too short to make them in one length :

     
    I used a pair of 3mm drills to align the axle holes and prevent slippage while gluing the three sections together :


     
    Now is a good time to add all the "bolt heads". I didn't use the laser-cut ones I'd bought for these, as a bit of experimentation showed it would take a lot of work to repaint the black laser-cut ones. The kit supplies all the 250 bolt heads needed (in red) so I cut them out and glued them on. This wasn't as difficult as it looks, once I worked out a fairly quick way of cutting them and colouring the edges :



     
    Danny
  16. Wow!
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from robert952 in QUICK-FIND INDEXES to BUILD LOGS FOR KITS   
    Quick-Find Indexes to Build Logs from Kits
     
     
    Up to 1500 May 2024.pdf1501-1750 May 2024.pdf
     
    1751-1800 May 2024.pdf1801-1850 May 2024.pdf
     
    1851-1900 May 2024.pdf1901-Present May 2024.pdf
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    The Links above take you to a number of "Quick Find" Indexes to the Build Logs for vessels made from Kits on this Site. They are alphabetically entered by Ship Name and Builder, as well as showing the Kit Manufacturer and whether the model has reached completion. NOTE - these Indexes do not contain those models that are Scratch-built with the exception of "Ships in Bottles", "Radio Control Models" and "Restorations".
     
    The Indexes are grouped in the various Building Types we have on this site - Wooden Ships, Small Craft, Plastic Models, Card, Radio Control, etc so you can easily find the type of build you are looking for.
     
    They are in PDF files, so you will need to have a PDF Reader installed in your computer to open them. These are available as free Downloads from various sources on-line, such as Adobe Reader:  https://get.adobe.com/uk/reader/
     
    When you click on the Link to open your Index of choice you will be asked to Download the file. Select a Folder to download to (optional - the Default is your "Downloads" folder). Any time you open that file from this page it will overwrite the previous file, and paste the new one in.
     
    The Indexes will be updated as new Build Logs are started, usually within a few days of them appearing, so it's advisable to update your Indexes periodically. You can view the downloaded Indexes from your computer without having to download them every time, but new ones may have been added since then.
     
    In the Index Click on the blue Ship's Name for the Build Log you want to view and it will open the Log. If you want to return to this page there is a Link at the top of the Index marked "Return to Model Ship World" that will bring you back here.
     
    To find a particular model quickly in the PDF Index - Click on the Edit Menu and select "Search", which will drop down a Dialog Window. You can type in the ship's name or the Builder (or even the Kit Manufacturer) and it will go to the first one in the list. Keep pressing the "Next" button to find the one you want and then Click on the blue Ship's Name to open the Build Log. This feature is particularly useful in the larger Indexes which have many pages. The pages have a Scroll Bar on the right which you can also use, or if your Mouse has a wheel you can turn that to also go down quickly. Pressing the "Page Down" key on your keyboard also goes down a page at a time.
     
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
     
     
     
     
  17. Like
    Dan Vadas reacted to Ronald-V in QUICK-FIND INDEXES to BUILD LOGS FOR KITS   
    Tnx it's okay now!
  18. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from BETAQDAVE in QUICK-FIND INDEXES to BUILD LOGS FOR KITS   
    Not you, problem fixed  .
     
    Danny
  19. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from yvesvidal in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    This assembly is the smoke box. A lot of laminating was needed, no doubt the laser-cut sheets (which are still in transit) would have had the middle supports included but I forged ahead with several layers of card. This assembly therefore took me three days to make, I'm quite happy with the results :

     
    A bevel needed to be cut for the "roof" section :

     
    The "roof" didn't fit very well - it was too short in one direction and too long in the other according to the glue markings despite the accuracy of the rest of the box. Apparently it's a problem with the kit design, as another builder (Stephan) found the same thing with his. I'd read his build log where he pointed out the mistake, so I was extra careful to align the box in case he hadn't, but came up with the same error. Hopefully there aren't too many more errors down the track, this one was quite easy to fix.
    I used the black laser-cut bolt heads this time instead of cutting my own :



    The tabs on the sides will be covered by the main frames later on. The two that extend out are used to align the box with the inside of the frames.
     
    Danny
  20. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from yvesvidal in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    The 12 main springs. These consist of 7 leaves each, all are back-to-back laminated :


     
    A doubled binding strap encircles each one :



     
    Last things are the support arms and "nuts". I made a jig for ease of assembly of the nuts which saved a lot of time, holding the things was a bit difficult without it :



     
    Danny
  21. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from FriedClams in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    This assembly is the smoke box. A lot of laminating was needed, no doubt the laser-cut sheets (which are still in transit) would have had the middle supports included but I forged ahead with several layers of card. This assembly therefore took me three days to make, I'm quite happy with the results :

     
    A bevel needed to be cut for the "roof" section :

     
    The "roof" didn't fit very well - it was too short in one direction and too long in the other according to the glue markings despite the accuracy of the rest of the box. Apparently it's a problem with the kit design, as another builder (Stephan) found the same thing with his. I'd read his build log where he pointed out the mistake, so I was extra careful to align the box in case he hadn't, but came up with the same error. Hopefully there aren't too many more errors down the track, this one was quite easy to fix.
    I used the black laser-cut bolt heads this time instead of cutting my own :



    The tabs on the sides will be covered by the main frames later on. The two that extend out are used to align the box with the inside of the frames.
     
    Danny
  22. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from FriedClams in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    The 12 main springs. These consist of 7 leaves each, all are back-to-back laminated :


     
    A doubled binding strap encircles each one :



     
    Last things are the support arms and "nuts". I made a jig for ease of assembly of the nuts which saved a lot of time, holding the things was a bit difficult without it :



     
    Danny
  23. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from Moab in Peterbuilt Semi-Trailer by Dan Vadas - CARD - FINISHED   
    Hi all,
     
    Another "quickie" - a free download of a Peterbuilt Semi-Trailer, which is virtually the same as a Kenworth. My Admiral's late son drove a white Kenworth, so I'm building this one for her in memory of him.
     
    I found this as a free download on the same site as the Fender guitar. The detailing leaves a lot to be desired, but it isn't turning out too bad. I'm enhancing it a little bit (don't I always  ).
     
    I started with the trailer. The logo on it was from a company that doesn't exist in Australia, so I found a Coca Cola sign on the web, copied it to Paint, re-sized and re-coloured the red to match the trailer and printed it out :



     
    I've added  acrylic "glass" to all the windows which were simply printed on :



     
    Where I'm up to on the cab. Fuel tanks, air filters, mirrors and exhausts are still to come, along with some small details. Then it's a "simple" matter of a mere 18 wheels  :





     
    Danny
  24. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from yvesvidal in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    Hi all,
     
    After waiting a ridiculous 12 weeks my Card model locomotive has finally arrived   . Yayyyyyyy  . No blame can be attached to the Publisher, as they sent the kit within 2 days of receipt of the order - either the ship carrying it needed more rowers, or (more likely) it's been sitting in Australian Customs for most of that time. The worst part was that I could only track the package as far as the Polish dockyard, then it disappeared until it showed up on my doorstep. Ah well, I had a few things to keep me occupied while I waited  .
     
    This kit is by Modelik from Poland. They publish a large range of (mostly) European rail kits in three scales - 1:25, 1:45 and a couple of 1:87 (I guess more of the latter may be coming soon) along with Aircraft, Ships, Armour, Vehicles and Buildings. Laser-cut parts are available for a lot of the kits. From my initial observations the kit is quite nicely detailed, although no "weathering" has been printed on. They suggest you do your own with pastels or paint if you wish, as well as super-detailing if that's your go. The cardstock it's printed on is good quality, and the instruction pictures are easy to understand and follow. Written instructions are only in Polish, so Google Translate gets a workout. Service, as previously mentioned was good although they need to use a faster ship   . Postage from Poland (as always) is a bit of a killer - it came to more than the kits themselves. I also bought two carriages to accompany the one I got earlier from Fenten's in Brisbane :


     
    On to the model. This is a 2-6-6-4 configuration, meaning that there are 2 bogie wheels at the front followed by two sets of 6 driving wheels and a 4-wheel bogie at the rear - a total of 18 wheels. Information about the loco can be found HERE. The original was a bit over 18 metres long and 4.3 metres tall, making it the largest steam locomotive built in Europe. They were built between 1931 and 1943.
     
    The model is a whopping 730mm long from buffer to buffer. Parts come in 24 A3 size sheets, with an additional 5 sheets of Templates. I'm not sure how many sheets of Laser-cut there are, as I forgot to order them with my original purchase (or perhaps they were unavailable at the time, I don't remember). This has caused a real headache, as it seems I bought the LAST kit that Modelik had available - it's no longer listed in their catalogue, and neither is the laser-cut kit. When I first opened the package there were quite a few laser-cut sheets, but it turns out that they were for the two extra carriages. I didn't actually realise my mistake until I'd laminated one complete side of the main frame (12 pieces in total) to 0.65mm card and cut the lot out. At the time I thought it very odd that these parts weren't in the laser-cut pack. Laminating the amount needed for this kit by hand would take forever, as the card I'm using is quite dense and isn't easy to cut.
     
    What to do? I went back on the Interweb and found two other sites that listed the laser-cut kit as available - Yay! I'd almost finalised the order transaction - my finger was actually hovering over the "Confirm" button when a thought hit me. The price seemed way too low. So I double-checked my order and found I'd almost bought the 1:45 scale version! Damn!!
     
    So I checked out the other site (JadarHobby), and sure enough they had a kit available - in 1:25 scale. Bewdy!! I immediately ordered it from them. They also send it via Air Freight and quote a delivery time of 2 - 5 days! We'll see.
     
    Here are some pics of the cover and some of the parts :





     
    I also bought the Decal set and about 5,000 laser-cut rivets and bolt heads :



    Last things I did was scan and save all the sheets to files and make my customary "Part Finder" Spreadsheet which helps find each part on the corresponding sheet MUCH easier. Well worth the couple of hours it took to make :

     
    Danny
  25. Like
    Dan Vadas got a reaction from thibaultron in 2-6-6-4 "Bulgar" Steam Locomotive by Dan Vadas - Modelik - 1:25 - CARD - FINISHED   
    This assembly is the smoke box. A lot of laminating was needed, no doubt the laser-cut sheets (which are still in transit) would have had the middle supports included but I forged ahead with several layers of card. This assembly therefore took me three days to make, I'm quite happy with the results :

     
    A bevel needed to be cut for the "roof" section :

     
    The "roof" didn't fit very well - it was too short in one direction and too long in the other according to the glue markings despite the accuracy of the rest of the box. Apparently it's a problem with the kit design, as another builder (Stephan) found the same thing with his. I'd read his build log where he pointed out the mistake, so I was extra careful to align the box in case he hadn't, but came up with the same error. Hopefully there aren't too many more errors down the track, this one was quite easy to fix.
    I used the black laser-cut bolt heads this time instead of cutting my own :



    The tabs on the sides will be covered by the main frames later on. The two that extend out are used to align the box with the inside of the frames.
     
    Danny
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