Rgpracer

2 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 Ray, is the hull itself is alright? I don't think it's ready to be allocated to the bin, not just yet. At this point it doesn't eat much, if you've decided you don't want to mess with it, place everything in a box and hang on to it. Who knows, at some time in the future you might discover a neighborhood kid that has a hankering to make model ships and this ole gal could be the ticket to their dreams. 

Yes sir, believe the hull to be in good shape.  I will build a box to set it in and shelf it, along with mast and all that came from it....who knows, after I gain some experience, it might be something I take a second look at.

Thanks Sir.

Ray

1 hour ago, davyboy said:

Hi Ray,you might also consider Chuck Passaros' (Syren Ship Model co) Revenue Cutter HMS Cheerful It's at 1:48 th scale. A fairly easy POB scratch build. He sells the plans and basic kit timber and also mini kits for all other items if you cant make your own. All building instructions can be downloaded from the Syren site This was my second model after building a kit previously.

 

There are a number of build logs of it in the Scratch build post 1801 section of the forum. The Syren ad is in the RH column on the home page. If or when you do decide to repair your wreck  please ditch those dreadful deadeyes,if scaled up they'd be the size of cartwheels.

Kind regards,

 

Dave 

Dave, didn't even think or realize that the deadeyes are not scale.  In dismantling some of this ship, I've seen some pretty bad looking modeling from the original builder.  He didn't wrap rope, he glued them in place....the deadeyes and the iron that wraps them and fastened to the ships side was crap-ily done, many many things done poorly.

I'm considering removing all hardware, canons, anything salvagable like deadeyes buckles and such and scrapping the ship.

It is always harder to make something outta a mess that someone else has started, race cars, wood projects, even wood model ships.

Thanks again.

Ray

2 hours ago, amateur said:

My guess would be Corel : as far as I know only Corel uses those ugly metal gunport-frames

 

[edit] just checked, tha mantua version also has these ugly things…..

 

Jan

Jan.......I don't like them at all, but for now, stuck with them.

2 hours ago, Gregory said:

For future reference, if you know the measurements for the full size ship, you can divide that by the same dimension of the model and get an approximation..

 

Or Divide the full size dimension by the scale and see what you get.

 

A length I see for Victory is 186 feet on the gun deck..  Divide by 98 and you get 1.897  feet or about 22.7 inches.

So if your victory model is close to 23 inches on the gun deck, I would consider it close to 1:98..

Close enough that it is unlikely to be another common scale, such as 1:72 or 

 

 

Perfect, thanks sir.

Thanks to everyone.

Thanks guys

1 hour ago, Keith Black said:

Ray, steering wheel is incorrect, the correct term is 'ship's wheel'.  I hope you start a restoration log where we can keep track of you progress. 

Thanks Keith.....please bear with me.

Another note......if I wanted to start with a simpler single mast wood ship, to get used to rigging, to get into building, to learn about "ships wheels", what ship would you recomend?

7 hours ago, Brian Hanington said:

Msgt Ray, as a true beginner (despite my advanced years), I really appreciate how daunting this hobby can seem. The books mentioned above are wonderful, yet I’ve found them to be very expensive and hard to get here in Canada (I’m also in Ottawa). I have truly benefitted from Frank Mastini’s “Ship Modeling Simplified.” Photo of cover and one illustration included. I hope I’m not transgressing any copyright issues by showing an example, but I do want you to see how simple the drawings are to understand. They help me immensely in just learning what everything is called, and I’m ex-Navy! I've just checked on amazon.ca and they can have one to you on Wednesday for about $28.00.  Consider it.  Happy building! 

Ship Modelling Simplified.pdf 117.19 kB · 6 downloads Mastini illustration example.pdf 90.33 kB · 5 downloads

Thanks for your service Chief.  I will look into this.  I have taken a lot of this ship apart, and now feel that it truly might not be salvageable.  The original builder jury rigged a bunch of it, a lot is broke or missing, hard to get into the middle of someone else's mess.  This might be over my head.

I am going to ask the fine people of this awesome forum what single mast ship would be a great "beginner" ship to start with.

I really like the ships like Victory, gun ships.....there has to be a good larger scale ship that I could "break my teeth on".

Thanks for the info, it will be priceless sir.

Happy New Year

Ray

2 hours ago, bruce d said:

Hi, nice find. May I ask how you established the model is 1/98 scale?

If it is the Mantua Victory this might be useful:

 

Mantua 911 HMS Victory Construction Plans Set | Cornwall Model Boats

 

HTH,

Bruce

Afternoon Bruce, lady on this site, tlevine suggested that to her, it is a 1:98 scale Mantua......I gave her some measurements and she ascertained from that that it was.

I don't have a clue how to figure scale or what manufacturer it is.

Thanks

Ray

4 hours ago, allanyed said:

Three sources are the 100 Gun Ship Victory Anatomy of a Ship by McKay, Longridge's Anatomy of Nelson's Ships, and RMG.  There are nine low res contemporary draws of Victory 1765 on the RMG Collections website, any or all of which can be downloaded for free or purchased in high resolution as well in 1:48.  These can be reduced at your local printer easily if you choose to receive them electronically.

 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/ Victory 1765  You can probably reach out to Mantua as well but they may not be as accurate as the other sources.

 

Allan

 

Thank you sir.

Good morning, I am trying to restore a 1:98 scale Victory.  It was a "barn find" so, I don't have plans for it.  From a member in this forum, I have learned that it might be a Mantua model, but, that is NOT verified and don't know how to confirm it.

All that said, does anyone have 1:98 scale plans that I could buy, or know where I can find any?  Here is my ship.

Can anyone identify my ship, or confirm that it is a Mantua?

Thank you and Happy New Year

1 hour ago, Jim Rogers said:

I would remove it all. The shrouds are not rigged correctly, they should be in pairs and and stacked port and starboard. The foot ropes appear to be just glued in place are not clove hitched. You can get proper size line from Syren Ship Company. You’ll learn more doing it correctly. My 2cents

Thanks Jim.....will the book by Longridge, Anatomy of Nelson's Ships help me with the proper rigging of the shrouds or can you give me a source please?

Thanks

3 hours ago, TBlack said:

Ray,

I’m going to depart from the considerable wisdom and advice given by Roger and Druxey. I had a similar problem a few years ago (see log Researching St. George) where the bowsprit and attendant rigging was a tangled mess. That area I cut away and redid from scratch. The rest of the rigging I left in place and tightened it up. My reasoning was that I didn’t want to add work if I didn’t have to. Your situation looks like the main mast and rigging needs a redo. However, it looks like you can save the lower shrouds. Hard to tell from the photo what the main top shrouds look like.

BTW, when you go to buy the Q tips be careful; they sell 2 kinds. The one to avoid is the one where the stem has break away joints. The least little pressure and they break in your hand. Most frustrating! Also, Mark’s suggestion is spot on. Longridge’s book would be helpful, and there are many build logs on this site that may supply help. In the search box (upper right) type in Victory.

Tom

 

Thanks Tom

There was considerable damage that I didn't want to just "jury" rig....my audience will be me and I will do it as right as I can.  I know there is a point of overkill and I won't go there, but, I will do it right.  With the rigging there, there was no way to clean it the way it needed cleaned.

I have spent a few hours (while watching my Chiefs loose) dismantling the rigging.  

Why is the steering wheel outside the upper deck, never seen this on any pictures?

Thanks for your input, all these people are awesome.  I will take everyone's advice, on the search input of "Victory" or "Restoration".

Here are a couple of pictures......PLEASE advise me as you see fit...

Thanks and Happy New Year Sir

45 minutes ago, TBlack said:

Msgt. Ray,

Mark makes a good point. How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? Yes, the forestay and preventer stay is rigged incorrectly, but will your audience know the difference? I stand by my previous recommendation. Do a little trimming and tightening; fix the masts. It will pass muster. Don't make perfection the enemy of the good.

As an aside: I'm thinking, Master Sergeant, fighter aircraft. Does that mean Marines?

Tom

Thanks TBlack.....Army 6 years as Gunner/Crewchief on Hueys, jumped to Airforce for another 18 as Crewchief/Flightchief.

Although my audience will be mainly me, I don't do things halfway, as a dirt Late model crewchief, I built and raced my own drag car, granddad to 10.......I just like doing things right....BUT, I understand overkill.

There was quite a few things broken and the gun deck was filthy after how ever many years sitting in the detached garage BEFORE my son rented the house in Ottawa Canada.

This WILL be a big job, but, being retired and if the grandkids don't bother me with projects, I can take my time.

Also.......I have not ever seen the steering wheel OUTSIDE the upper deck, isn't it supposed to be under?

1 hour ago, mtaylor said:

One further bit of advice.   As you work on stripping her down and sorting things out..... take lots of photos. print them out and annotate them.   All removed parts, bag and label.  If you rely on memory alone, you will forget which bit came from where.

Agree mtaylor....lol....at near 65, I don't rely on memory for nothing.

Great advice....ya know, in looking at this thing, hard to get a good starting point where to cut.

I also don't know all my terminology and what to call parts.....for example......do I cut right below the dead eyes and save as much of the net as possible.....looks like I want to cut below the block and tackle?

Thanks and sorry for dumb 101 questions.

4 minutes ago, druxey said:

If this were a valuable historic model, one would try to save as much of the original material as possible, This is not the case here, so Roger's advice is very good advice. 

Agree, but lol......looking at cutting the rigging away is a daunting task in itself.  Cut here...don't cut here....lol.

Thanks for the advice.

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

Rigging a three masted square rigged ship is a project in and of itself.  The photos that you have posted indicate that whoever built the model did a decent job building the hull.

 

I would, therefore, suggest that you strip the model down to the hull.  Carefully save masts, yards, blocks, deadeyes, etc.  Do not remove any of these items securely attached to the hull.  Clean the hull, saliva and Qtips, repair any damage and rerig.  You will need new rigging line.

 

You will also need a good reference.  Longridge’s The Anatomy of Nelson’s Ships has some good isometric drawings of rigging.

 

Roger

 

 

Thanks Roger....kinda what I'm learning towards.

My son found this HMS Victory ship (identified by tlevine as a 1:96 Mantua model) in his garage in Ottawa Canada about 6 years ago in bad disarray.  I have been researching a lot about the HMS Victory and with my plastic modeling background (since 1967(ish)) this is a super challenge for me.  I am a woodworker, welder, race car builder, former fighter jet crew chief.....like to add wood model ship builder on my resume.

I have always wanted to build one......all that said, in my research, i have tried to untangle this rat's nest and reconstruct the mast and put this back together......but, I've also considered taking it down to the deck and starting from there...,...may i get your opinion about this? I also believe that I put will make it easier to clean and detail the deck.   There are pieces missing, parts disconnected, many issues.

A few pictures to view......please let me know, try to piece it back, or take it down to the deck?

Ps......can you also tell me a good book or source on rigging this.

Thanks and Happy New Year

Msgt Ray Parker (retired)

Wichita KS

10 hours ago, allanyed said:

You can figure the scale pretty easily.   Measure the maximum breadth midships or the length on the gun deck.  It will not be exact, but should be pretty close for figuring the scale.  Beam of the Victory is 52 feet 10 inches and the length on the gun deck (rabbet to rabbet) is 186 feet (2,232 inches) .   For a scale of 1:96 the length on the gundeck would be  23 1/4", for 1:64 it would be 34 7/8", for 1:48 it would be 46 1/2" etc. 

Allan

Allan, I just went and looked at mine.....it must be 1:96 cause the closest measurement I can come up with is 23(ish)".

That will help a bunch.  

What source do people on the forum like to use?  I don't know the "ship" lingo yet, but the crew or personnel entry on the starboard side frame is missing and need that and other parts......thanks for your reply.

Merry Christmas

Ray

Although I am a new member and new to wooden ship building, I have wood working in my resume and can say that this is awesome.

I really like the detail that you have given to make this happen.  I have an HMS Victory that I am "rebuilding" and although daunting...i am learning.  I wish i knew the scale of my ship (I will post questions later) because, I have already ordered wrong size parts.

I will follow this close.

Thanks Sir and Merry Christmas.

Ray

Good morning to all.  Retired military, 64 years old and a modeler of some sort from age 10 and still going.  My latest venture is a rebuild of the HMS Victory wooden ship.  Many questions to come.

Look fwd to talking with people.

Merry Christmas to all

Ray