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allanyed
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allanyed reacted to druxey in Planking Bow
Planking is both a science and an art. The 'scientific' part is mathematical: dividing the vertical distance to be covered in an appropriate number of strakes. The art is to adjust the run of these until they look right to the eye from all angles. Sometimes the adjustment needed is very small, in other hulls there needs to be larger tweaks. There is no one way of doing this. However, the strakes should appear to taper or widen evenly.
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allanyed got a reaction from Keith Black in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
Gregory, You may right that McKay is right and Steel got it wrong. I was just going by Folio XVI of Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture as Steel was a couple years after the period in question and he was basing information on actual practice at that time. I am sure there were other designs, I was only pointing out what Steel wrote as it was as close to the 1803 date in question as I could find. For example in the The Shipbuilder's Repository of 1788 on page 290 it gives dimensions of the square ends only, it does not make mention of a shape for the area between the ends. Maybe in that book it assumed it could be square with some chamfering or octagonal or round. If you go back to the Establishments of 1719, 1745, and 1750 , they are specific that the pillars are all square from top to bottom.
Maybe the sketch below will help regarding Steel's specific comments that the middle section is to be square. The lengths are of course going to vary by deck and location but the cross section dimensions are those given by Steel for a first rate. I added the chamfer as well.
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from Keith Black in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
Hi Gregory,
I only have what Steel wrote in the scantlings pages. It is written that the pillars were square, but I imagine the four corners in the middle 3/4's square section were chamfered. I would be very interested to see other contemporary information with additional descriptions. I would not be surprised if there were other shapes and dimensions coming out of the various yards. Seems there is very little fixed in stone in those days.
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from Keith Black in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
Thanks. I realize contemporary information may not even exist for this kind of information but trust that the work in your book was well studied and could be right on the money,
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from mtaylor in Query for Knowledge: Elm (Tree) Pumps?
Hi Rick
Goodwin describes these as being the main bilge pump on fourth rates and below. On larger rates they were used for taking water from holes in the hull or from cisterns. The Construction and Fitting of English Ships of War, page 142. I have no idea how they were employed on American ships.
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from mtaylor in Query for Knowledge: Elm (Tree) Pumps?
Whatever water was in the bilge which could be fresh from rain water mixed in with the normal sea water that was found in the bilges. Certainly not fresh drinking water.
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from mtaylor in Planking Bow
Hello Mr. Lorac
Study the planking expansion drawings in the RMG Collections site. You can download into a drawing program then measure each strake to get an idea if they are consistent in tapering. Go to the collections site (https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections) and type in "planking expansion plans". Be careful that you are looking at outboard, not inboard expansions as some drawings show one or the other and others show both on the same plan. Woolwich 1785 and Squirrel 1785 are good examples.
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from Gabek in 6-pounder, Royal Navy cannon barrel - George III era
Take a look at the drawing above that Ron posted, it should help you. We have been working on a similar project where-in we have 3D drawings of Browne (1625), Commonwealth (1650) Borgard (1716) Armstrong Frederick (1760) , and Blomefield (1791) patterns. Still have a ways to go with Armstrong (1725), additional Blomefields, Pitt, Spanish, and French patterns that are only complete in 2D at this time.
The only noticeable difference between the Armstrong and Armstrong Frederick patterns is that there is no trough on the Armstrong pattern and the cypher is for George 2 rather than George 3. Otherwise, the breech, first and second reinforce, and chase along with the astragal rings are virtually the same based on drawings found in Adrian Caruana's The History of English Sea Ordnance volume 2.
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from botra288 in Armstrong Frederick Cannon by allanyed - 1:24 scale
Thanks to fellow member Ron Thibault's work in preparing 3D drawings of the Armstrong Frederick pattern, a realistic barrel was easy to have made. Details of the George III cypher and the flash pan as well as astragal rings can be seen below.
Allan
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allanyed reacted to Morgan in Query for Knowledge: Elm (Tree) Pumps?
Hi Rick,
Elm Tree Pumps, also known as the common or brake pump were multifunctional. In a ship with chain pumps the Elm Tree Pump served to bring fresh seawater up for washing the decks and feeding the condenser on the stove. They could provide water for fire fighting on deck but they were only a lift pump and not a pressurised pump so couldn’t be directed at a fire as there was no head of water (ships had separate fire engines / pumps that could generate pressure and be directed at sails etc.)
Initially the pump casing was open directly to the sea through the ships bottom, but in the late 18th Century they were brought inboard and a system of indirect pipe work via valves and stop cocks could let sea water in to the cistern around the mainmast and the foot of the pump was now inside the ship within the cistern to lift the water.
In smaller ships without chain pumps the elm tree pump was the primary means of clearing water from the hold.
They are called Elm Tree Pumps as it was the bored trunk of an elm tree that was used for the pump casing.
Gary
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allanyed got a reaction from mtaylor in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
Hi Gregory,
I only have what Steel wrote in the scantlings pages. It is written that the pillars were square, but I imagine the four corners in the middle 3/4's square section were chamfered. I would be very interested to see other contemporary information with additional descriptions. I would not be surprised if there were other shapes and dimensions coming out of the various yards. Seems there is very little fixed in stone in those days.
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from mtaylor in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
Thanks. I realize contemporary information may not even exist for this kind of information but trust that the work in your book was well studied and could be right on the money,
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
Hi Gregory,
I only have what Steel wrote in the scantlings pages. It is written that the pillars were square, but I imagine the four corners in the middle 3/4's square section were chamfered. I would be very interested to see other contemporary information with additional descriptions. I would not be surprised if there were other shapes and dimensions coming out of the various yards. Seems there is very little fixed in stone in those days.
Allan
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allanyed reacted to tmj in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
Hello Grandpa!
I have that book, and it is a very 'fine' book, however. Its data, as accurate as it is, is also based upon cumulative refits, reworks, modifications, etc. that have taken place over a very long period of time. The ship that McKay based his data upon is not the same ship as it truly was back in 1805. His book is based upon the latest version(s) of that ship, after re-fits, during our more modern times.
'McKay'... I really like that name... only not so much 'John' McKay as that of 'Donald' McKay! Every time I think of Donald McKay, I start having visions of a 'Flying Cloud'! 🙂
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allanyed got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
Thanks. I realize contemporary information may not even exist for this kind of information but trust that the work in your book was well studied and could be right on the money,
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from mtaylor in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
I have only seen them in deck drawings but very few show these. Sorry I do not remember where, but from what I recall they were all single stanchions on the center line except where there might be two in the area of a hatch. In that case they were in line with the coamings and often near the corner of the coamings and head ledges. I checked a half dozen contemporary contracts and they all give dimensions of the pilar ends but not location. For a first rate there may have been two under each beam rather than one on the center line. I am curious to see some contemporary information that some member might be able to share.
NOTE: While the center section was often/usually square as mentioned above, keep in mind that this section usually had a heavy chamfer on all four corners.
Allan
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allanyed got a reaction from mtaylor in Iron Braces on Hanging Knee Deck Supports... HMS Victory
Perfect, MANY thanks Gary
Allan
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allanyed reacted to GrandpaPhil in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
I’ll take a look this evening!
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allanyed got a reaction from Gabek in 6-pounder, Royal Navy cannon barrel - George III era
Scaling the photo that Ron posted the hole appears to be about 1/2" to 5/8" diameter. If anyone has something more definitive based on contemporary sources I would be grateful to know.
Allan
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allanyed reacted to GrandpaPhil in Sovereign of the Seas 1637 by Cpt_Haddock - Sergal - 1:72 - modified
Have you thought about carving replacement carvings yourself?
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allanyed reacted to Morgan in Iron Braces on Hanging Knee Deck Supports... HMS Victory
Hi Allan,
Steel’s plate 8 - X-Section of a 74 gun ship put things nicely into context, the following table aligns with the colour code, obviously this is for the whole ship. Your dimensions from Steel can be used to extend this.
ZAZ0122
Colour
Type
No of Riders
Red
Top Rider
24
Red & Blue
Long Middle Rider
2
Blue
Middle Rider
20
Blue & Orange
Long Breadth Rider
2
Orange
Breadth Rider
22
Green
First & Third Futtock Rider
32
Purple
Second Futtock Rider
16
Rectangular yellow box below Green Riders[1]
Floor Rider
8
Totals
126
Gary
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allanyed got a reaction from Keith Black in 1:98 Wooden Stanchions for HMS Victory
Thanks Phil, As mentioned in post #12, I asked about information based on contemporary sources. Does the book you mention provide a contemporary source for the drawing showing the pillar locations?
Thanks again.
Allan
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allanyed reacted to Darius359au in HMS Victory by Darius359au - Corel - 1:98 - Cross-Section
Thanks Allan , I was trying to figure out why the wale is too high with the gun port, in the plans it's all lined up! , it's not the 1st time the kits given too many planks ,had an issue with the inner planking in the hold and the outer hull planks from keel to wale as well.
Planks are glued with white glue so might try some water on the top plank and soak it off , (ironically fixing it would make the plans work🤔🤣)
Richard
Edit - water worked👍
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allanyed reacted to druxey in 6-pounder, Royal Navy cannon barrel - George III era
From guns I've seen, the touchhole is not more than ½" in diameter - perhaps 3/8" or even less.
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