6-pounder, Royal Navy cannon barrel - George III era

[Gabek]

Hello modellers,

My friend and fellow Manitoban, @Knocklouder , asked if I could print up some 6-pounder cannons for his HMS Pegasis (Amati, 1:64).  I based the following design of the 6-pounderm found in Anatomy of the Ship: The 24-Gun Frigate Pandora.  I did not include a gunlock in this design - just a simple touch hole.  The emblem on the cannon is George III but I think it could pass for the very similar George II - particularly at smaller scales. 

 

This file was created in 1:64, but can be scaled up or down as needed.  Attached are the .STL and the .cbddlp files for anyone who wants to print it off themselves.  The .cbddlp is pre-supported.  I used Anycubic ABS+ on an Elegoo Mars printer and had very good results - I can supply the print parameters on request.

 

 

Hope this helps,

Gabe

6-pounder cannon.cbddlp 6-pounder cannon.stl

[allanyed]

Hi Gabe

Thank you for posting this.

Both the Pegasus 1776 and Pegasus 1779 would likely have had Armstrong-Frederick guns, both of which had George III emblems so what you show is appropriate for that era.  It is good to see the astragal ring around the button.  No aftermarket or kit cannon that I have seen to date show this rather distinctive feature on either the Armstrong (1725-1759) or Armstrong Frederick (1760-1791) so your drawing could be very useful to a lot of folks.

Allan

Edited August 29, 2023 by allanyed

[Lieste]

Not especially convinced by the shape of the tulip, swell of the muzzle, or the muzzle rings and astragals.

As a *rough* approximation the swell should be half a calibre from the muzzle and occupy half the length from muzzle face to the greatest diameter, continuing into the tulip the arc of the swell and tulip should be tangent at their meeting. The Tulip form should be a larger radius curve smoothly transitioning from the middle of the neck of the chase (where the astragal is) to be tangent to the swell.

Details about the number and shape of mouldings between the muzzle face and swell vary according to the pattern, but the smooth flow of curves seems pretty universal, even as their proportions change.

[Gabek]

3 hours ago, Lieste said:

Not especially convinced by the shape of the tulip, swell of the muzzle, or the muzzle rings and astragals.

As a *rough* approximation the swell should be half a calibre from the muzzle and occupy half the length from muzzle face to the greatest diameter, continuing into the tulip the arc of the swell and tulip should be tangent at their meeting. The Tulip form should be a larger radius curve smoothly transitioning from the middle of the neck of the chase (where the astragal is) to be tangent to the swell.

Details about the number and shape of mouldings between the muzzle face and swell vary according to the pattern, but the smooth flow of curves seems pretty universal, even as their proportions change.

I based this model on diagrams that were supplied to me, which I quite obviously didn't even follow all that faithfully. Yes, I can see the hideous mistakes, particularly at the muzzle.  My apologies for sharing something so inadequate.  I won't bore you with some of the mitigating circumstances that contributed to this failure.  Thank you for your corrections. Please disregard my work.

[Jack-in-the-Blue]

1 hour ago, Gabek said:

Please disregard my work.

 

No, I don't think I'll disregard your work, my friend. It looks a lot more correct than incorrect to me, and hugely better than the kit supplied items that I'm currently looking at. Thank you so much for your generosity in sharing the files. 

[Knocklouder]

I don't  know much about cannons,  but these come with  a touch hole and a little  King emblem  on them and really look good to me . Even Marvin  likes them. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Knocklouder
Yep typos 😒

[thibaultron]

Not a wasted effort at all! Good job!

[scrubbyj427]

I’m definitely going to keep these in mind for down the road.

[Gabek]

In answer to @Lieste 's rebuke of my first attempt at a cannon barrel, I have corrected the muzzle to what I hope is a more acceptable shape.  I admit that I had incorrectly shaped the muzle.  The lines you see in the muzzle would not be printed - they are simply artefact lines from revolving the complex shape of the muzzle.  You see the same lines on the pommelion.  These would not be printed as you see them. 

Please let me know if these are acceptable.   Attached to this is the .stl file for you to download.  I will post a ready-to-print, supported model once people are satisfied that I have a correct cannon barrel.

Kind regards,

Gabe 

6-pounder cannon - amended muzzle.stl

[scrubbyj427]

Looks really good. Nice work Gabe.

[Lieste]

Yes, that captures the character of the gun. This design is very common - the precise balance of reinforce vs chase and the number and style of the astragals and listels will vary over the period of black powder artillery, but for a very long time almost all nations produced guns that broadly have this form. I believe that this is "gun".

[Morgan]

Very nice Gabe.  12 & 24 pounders next please 😜

 

Gary

[thibaultron]

I'm working on a full set of the Fredricks, as well as several other types, in conjunction with Allanyed. I have the long 24 pounder finished for his carriage project. If anyone needs the short one right away, I could generate that one. Otherwise I will finish the Fredrick set after the Blomefields.

 

This is a graphic of the file

 

Here is the STL

 

Armstrong Fredricks 24 Pounder Long 3253_13mm.stl

 

I wrote a thread about setting up for printing cannons in 3D, to help those who wish to try it for themselves.

 

 

 

 

[Gabek]

8 hours ago, Morgan said:

Very nice Gabe.  12 & 24 pounders next please 😜

 

Gary

Thanks, Gary

And they're on my list!  Stay tuned.

Regards,

Gabe
 

[allanyed]

Hi  Gabe

Thank you for sharing this.  Will you be adding the trough around the vent?   Do you or does any member know the vent diameter?   

Allan

[thibaultron]

Update long 24 pounder STL. This is scaled to full size 3262.31mm. You can scale that to whatever scale you need. I messed up with the first file, by not scaling it properly. My cat escaped and while chasing her, I forgot where I was in a program, and messed it up. This file has been scaled and error checked using Netfabb.

 

Armstrong Fredricks 24 Pounder Long 3262_31mm.stl

[Gabek]

5 hours ago, thibaultron said:

Update long 24 pounder ….

Thanks for posting this, Ron!  

 

[Gabek]

12 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hi  Gabe

Thank you for sharing this.  Will you be adding the trough around the vent?   Do you or does any member know the vent diameter?   

Allan

I actually just guessed at the vent diameter because the drawing I referred to in AotS Diana only showed the barrel with the gunlock.  If you have diagram with the trough I can easily add it.  To be honest, I knew that this detail would be almost invisible at 1:64 so I didn't fret too much.  
- Gabe

[allanyed]

 

4 hours ago, Gabek said:

If you have diagram with the trough I can easily add it.

Take a look at the drawing above that Ron posted, it should help you.   We have been working on a similar project where-in we have 3D drawings of Browne (1625), Commonwealth (1650)  Borgard (1716)  Armstrong Frederick (1760) , and Blomefield (1791) patterns.   Still have a ways to go with Armstrong (1725), additional Blomefields, Pitt,  Spanish, and French patterns that are only complete in 2D at this time.    

 

The only noticeable difference between the Armstrong and Armstrong Frederick patterns is that there is no trough on the Armstrong pattern and the cypher is for George 2 rather than George 3.  Otherwise, the breech, first and second reinforce, and chase along with the astragal rings are virtually the same based on drawings found in Adrian Caruana's The History of English Sea Ordnance volume 2.

 

Allan

 

[thibaultron]

Here is a SketchUp drawing of the flash pan for the long 24 pounder. Feel free to use it for your 6 pounder. Scaling will be needed, but the general layout is the same. I've included a graphic of the drawing, and a picture of an actual cannon.

 

Flash Pan_003.zip

 

[allanyed]

Scaling the photo that Ron posted the hole appears to be about 1/2" to 5/8" diameter.  If anyone has something more definitive based on contemporary sources I would be grateful to know.

Allan

 

[druxey]

From guns I've seen, the touchhole is not more than ½" in diameter - perhaps 3/8" or even less.

[thibaultron]

It is 1/2" in diameter, for the 24 pounder.

[thibaultron]

[Gabek]

Hello folks, 

Based on suggetions from @thibaultron and @allanyed, I've made some more modifications to the 6-pounder.  Namely, I added the trough, reshaped the cascabel, and adjusted the breech rings.  Here are a couple of screen shots.  Once people are good with these latest changes I'll post the .stl and .cbddlp files for everyone to use.  

 

When I feel up to it I'll make a gunlock for this cannon.  

 

Regards,

Gabe

[Knocklouder]

Those look relly good!! Are you still interested in the barter system,  20 cannons for 20 pounds lol, great cannons my friend. Ok ,I will go as high as 30 lbs for 20    

[Lieste]

A single part joined at a semi-seam like that sometimes fails to print well. You may be better off with two halves - it is a problem for some slicers to have an edge which is outside to outside within the same part in a 'ring'. It can cause the bore to 'infill' rather than remain open at an edge in a 'random' point and can interfere with supports placement too.  Two separate parts placed together so the bore isn't "inside" the outer perimeter of any single part can slice better in some cases. It doesn't have to be 'literally sliced in half - excising a narrow wedge from the lower surface 'below' the trunnions might be sufficient to avoid the problem, and better hides the 'seam' between the two elements.

[Gabek]

36 minutes ago, Knocklouder said:

Those look relly good!! Are you still interested in the barter system,  20 cannons for 20 pounds lol, great cannons my friend. Ok ,I will go as high as 30 lbs for 20    

LOL!  I'll go 20 cannons for 10lbs, Bob!  

[Gabek]

25 minutes ago, Lieste said:

A single part joined at a semi-seam like that sometimes fails to print well. You may be better off with two halves - it is a problem for some slicers to have an edge which is outside to outside within the same part in a 'ring'. It can cause the bore to 'infill' rather than remain open at an edge in a 'random' point and can interfere with supports placement too.  Two separate parts placed together so the bore isn't "inside" the outer perimeter of any single part can slice better in some cases. It doesn't have to be 'literally sliced in half - excising a narrow wedge from the lower surface 'below' the trunnions might be sufficient to avoid the problem, and better hides the 'seam' between the two elements.

I'm sorry, Lieste - I don't quite follow you. 

The lines on the cascabel and the muzzle appear to be artefacts of the drawing (Fusion 360), not seams in the model.  I'm printing in resin at 0.03mm resolution and have yet to see the line and there isn't any kind of infill.  

 

In the slicer (Lychee), here's what the model looks like:

[Lieste]

A solid of rotation - depending on the modelling software often has a start and stop and sweeps the surface around until the two 'ends' meet with zero gap. This (when it exists) can cause slicers to have a bit of a freak out... sometimes.

I know that this can be a major issue with the interaction between Blender and Cura... and can be averted by making the barrel in two parts so there is a single polygon for the top, joined to a single polygon for the bottom - rather than one polygon which forms a 'just closed ring' or a ring with a hole in it. It is how the slicer interprets the geometry, rather than a problem with the geometry in the model as such.