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Jaager

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  1. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Custom Paint Colors   
    Roger,
     
    I am a a heretic about something like this and I think that his whole exact color thing has too quick sand a foundation to warrant becoming OCD about it.
    First off, unless seen in person, any color captured on film, tape or electrons is going to be different.  Even if you had the exact RGB number - every computer screen is going to do its own interpretation of it.
    Close enough is good enough.
     
    If you have a color chip or equivalent  I would use a color wheel  to get most of the formula.
    https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/artistscolorwheel.aspx
    Now that I know what they really are I would use artist's oil  (40ml tubes)  and mix my own 
    One of the companies may have a ready made that is close or only needs more black or white or ....
    A little linseed oil and mineral spirits and you are set.
  2. Like
    Jaager reacted to Bob Cleek in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    While quality model kits, as Roger describes them, serve to inspire and educate beginning builders and those who, for whatever reason, want a model a particular kit yields, "going over to the dark side" of scratch modeling is the inevitable outcome of one's developing modeling confidence, if not skill. 
     
    You don't need to be a Passaro or Tosti to build from scratch. As Roger sagely notes, there is an unlimited supply of plans for just about any type of boat and they can often be had for "beer money," if not for free. Freeing one's self from bondage to the kit manufacturers opens the entire world of nautical subjects to the modeler who is thereby no longer bound to building models of ships that have been built hundreds, if not thousands, of times before. Chapelle famously addressed this over fifty years ago (I think,): Nautical Research Guild - Article - Ship Models that Should Not be Built (thenrg.org)  and Nautical Research Guild - Article - Ship Models that Ought to be Built (thenrg.org).  
     
    I think the question that should be asked by serious modelers more often than it seems to be is, "If, by some strange twist of fate, my model were to come to light two or three hundred years from now, would studying it tell people in that far distant future anything they didn't already know?" We don't have to build to the amazing levels of technical quality to which only a few are able to achieve, either. Some of the most academically valuable models we have today were actually quite crude, but they are all we have to see what ships of their times looked like. We are all capable of building "museum quality" models, if we just give them enough time!
     
     
     
    Mataró – the oldest Museum Ship Model | Professional Model Making (wordpress.com)
  3. Like
    Jaager reacted to Roger Pellett in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    A somewhat cynical view of finishes:
     
    Kits are expensive:   You are paying for someone else's  intellectual property, which you should, but you are also paying a lot for marketing, and distribution.  Each organization between you and the manufacturer needs to be paid.
     
    To offset these marketing and distribution costs, many "Hobby Shop Grade Kits" do not use high grade materials, and many use misleading descriptions to promote sales.  For example, genuine American Black Walnut is an excellent wood for high end furniture, but not so good for ship models, and the stuff marketed as walnut by some kit manufacturers is worse.
     
    Trying to find a finish to enhance the appearance of low quality wood is a waste of time.  Although there are finishes advertised to turn any wood into a work of art, these are aimed at the DIY and Craft markets. Many of these contain fillers intended to hide defects, thereby covering up detail that we want to show.
     
    So, realizing that not everyone has unlimited resources to devote to this hobby what are the alternatives.
     
    Deal directly with a kit manufacture with a reputation for furnishing high quality materials:  By buying directly from the manufacture your money goes into the kit.  You are not paying for distribution.  Links to these quality kit manufacturers can be found here on MSW.
     
    Use a finish appropriate to the quality of the materials:  As they say "paint covers a multitude of sins."
     
    Build from scratch:  Today, information that can be used to build accurate ship models is widely available.  An hour's search on the internet will turn up dozens of public domain examples of prototypes suitable for all skill levels.  Howard Chapelle's work alone could keep an army of model builders busy for a lifetime.  Prints of his work are available from the Smithsonian at a reasonable cost (I think comparable to a couple of Starbucks Lattes).
     
    With your prints in hand, go to the lumberyard and hardware store.   Buy a couple of chisels, coping saw, a quality pine board and carve a hull.  Buy other tools as needed.  Back in the 1930's, Popular Mechanics published articles on building ship models using just this solid hull modeling technique.  I have two such models built by my father that are between 75 and 85 years old that look like they were built yesterday.
     
    Roger
     
     
     
     
     
     
  4. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from thibaultron in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    Kev,
    About which species your "Ramin" really is, now that it and its whole genus is unethical and short sited to use - it could be a lot of unrelated but similar looking species.  If your kit is a European one,  I would guess that it is an African species that has no catchy marketing name of its own.  In any case, you should not be surprised that the manufacturer might be a bit fast and loose with the truth in their advertising copy.
     
    Danish oil is not an actual name of any single material.  It is a mixture of oils  - oils that are discussed here.  What is actually is varies between manufactures who use the gimmick name..   One would hope that within a particular manufacturer's product that the formula would be consistent.
    On the serious level, there are two natural clear finish oils.
    "boiled" Linseed oil - which seems to be consistent - when polymerized it does not have an especially hard surface - but a model will not be used as a table top, so this does not really matter all that much.
    Tung oil - which is good stuff  IF you get the right stuff.   Just Tung oil as the name = it could be anything and may not actually contain Tung oil. Some name brands may be polyurethane.   100% pure Tung oil is the actual oil, but it can still be tricky.
    If it is too old, or from a generic manufacturer or you do not use a proper primer coat and leave too thick a layer, it may not "dry" (polymerize) in your lifetime.  It this situation, it is a right awful mess to clean up.
    Good quality and properly applied Tung will leave exactly the sort of finish that you are after. The more coats, the deeper it appears.  But each layer must be polymerized before you add the next.
     
    Danish oil will probably provide a more predictable finish, and one that is harder than linseed but not as hard as Tung - provided that the can is within its useby date.
      
  5. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    Kev,
    About which species your "Ramin" really is, now that it and its whole genus is unethical and short sited to use - it could be a lot of unrelated but similar looking species.  If your kit is a European one,  I would guess that it is an African species that has no catchy marketing name of its own.  In any case, you should not be surprised that the manufacturer might be a bit fast and loose with the truth in their advertising copy.
     
    Danish oil is not an actual name of any single material.  It is a mixture of oils  - oils that are discussed here.  What is actually is varies between manufactures who use the gimmick name..   One would hope that within a particular manufacturer's product that the formula would be consistent.
    On the serious level, there are two natural clear finish oils.
    "boiled" Linseed oil - which seems to be consistent - when polymerized it does not have an especially hard surface - but a model will not be used as a table top, so this does not really matter all that much.
    Tung oil - which is good stuff  IF you get the right stuff.   Just Tung oil as the name = it could be anything and may not actually contain Tung oil. Some name brands may be polyurethane.   100% pure Tung oil is the actual oil, but it can still be tricky.
    If it is too old, or from a generic manufacturer or you do not use a proper primer coat and leave too thick a layer, it may not "dry" (polymerize) in your lifetime.  It this situation, it is a right awful mess to clean up.
    Good quality and properly applied Tung will leave exactly the sort of finish that you are after. The more coats, the deeper it appears.  But each layer must be polymerized before you add the next.
     
    Danish oil will probably provide a more predictable finish, and one that is harder than linseed but not as hard as Tung - provided that the can is within its useby date.
      
  6. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from thibaultron in Degradation of lead and Britannia fittings   
    John,
     
    I would think that a clear coat of the organic solvent sort would buy you time, but if the "white glue" is PVA, that has the potential to be a disaster.  The final product in lead disease is lead acetate -I believe.
    I am not sure how much if any acetate is in bookbinders PVA,  but all other woodworkers PVA has as much acetic acid as 5% vinegar.  My guess is that a PVA coat would accelerate the disintegration of a lead casting.  
    The clear coat using lacquer et al. has the disadvantage of not being glass and thus allowing gases to migrate across it.  A quick smell of vinegar tells you that acetic acid is partially a gas at RT.  
  7. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Bob Cleek in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    Poly urethane is a plastic.  I used it on my Walnut stained Oak kitchen floor in KY.  It looked good and held up well.  It certainly has its fans here for use on a model.  If you like a plastic look on a model on a vessel from 100+ years ago,  it is worth a look. It is simple enough to use.
     
    Should you be more traditionally oriented, a simple, low cost, forgiving material is shellac.  More coats more depth.  Too shiny, Scotch Brite, steel wool, or bronze wool will dull it.
    A low cost way is
    Lee Valley shellac flakes 1/4 lb  -  choice of 3 shades for how warm and aged you are going for.
    a can of denatured alcohol
    for light 10% is enough (10 g in 100 ml)  the medium can probably be 20% , and the dark maybe 30%. 
    Rag or brush to apply.
    If you double or triple bag the dry flakes and put them in a freezer they should store for years.  just make sure that they are RT before you open the stored flakes.
    It comes pre-mixed (avoid the silly aerosol version)  just be aware that the shelf life is limited.
     
    A rule that learned in organic chem is that a reaction rate doubles for every 10 degree C temp rise.   Going from 20 C  to  -10 /20 C   is a 4-8-16 times longer half life for a compound prone to oxidation.
     
  8. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Gregory in Wanted - Full runs of MODEL SHIPWRIGHT/SHIPS IN SCALE magazines   
    Aceman,
    I apologize  if this steals any of Kurt's thunder, but it is identical to the printed version, except that it is ephemeral electron based.  A hard copy can even be printed, but that would not be the quality of the original.
     
    You should really consider subscribing to the NRJ electronic version if not both hard copy and digital.
  9. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Wanted - Full runs of MODEL SHIPWRIGHT/SHIPS IN SCALE magazines   
    Aceman,
    I apologize  if this steals any of Kurt's thunder, but it is identical to the printed version, except that it is ephemeral electron based.  A hard copy can even be printed, but that would not be the quality of the original.
     
    You should really consider subscribing to the NRJ electronic version if not both hard copy and digital.
  10. Like
    Jaager reacted to Justin P. in Wanted - Full runs of MODEL SHIPWRIGHT/SHIPS IN SCALE magazines   
    Is that the same Norman Swales who has also done a lot of illustrative and figure work for the games industry?  You might try a different company, or possibly one his co-authors/contributors.   There seem to be quite a few (if its the same person.   Unique name...
  11. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Wanted - Full runs of MODEL SHIPWRIGHT/SHIPS IN SCALE magazines   
    Kurt,
    Yes, I am completely aware that Model Shipwrighy is under copyright  protection.  The situation is that I have no need or reason to break that protection.  I just think it is an injustice.
    It seems that insults do not work to get them to show up and defend themselves.  I am not going to do it, I am just part of the Peanut Gallery in this.  It is a waste, but it is not my job to fit it.
     
    One of my fantasies - From a Proceedings article - i.e. "It is better to seek forgiveness than to ask for permission." .  Blatantly break the copyright in order to smoke someone out at the company, who can negotiate a solution that frees up the content.  They are sitting on a pot load of re-drawn lines plans by Norman Swales and ignore inquires about purchasing full size copies or how to contact Swales about the same.  Are they really a government agency or labor union in disguise?   
  12. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Wanted - Full runs of MODEL SHIPWRIGHT/SHIPS IN SCALE magazines   
    As a totally opinion based comment:
    I find that the quality and subject matter and choice of sybjects  in SIS are such that the NRG provided CD are totally adequate as a way to access their information.
     
    Model Shipwright is a whole nuther thing.  I have the complete run up until the original publisher went bankrupt.  I cannot imagine anyone who is still involved with this and who has the first 100 or so issues letting them go. 
    I cannot come up with any explanation other than sheer incompetency  and stark imbecility to explain why the current copyright owner has not republished in an electronic format or farmed that out.  Such selfish hording should void any legal protection against piracy.  It would not be as though they were losing sales of anything.
  13. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Covering up CA   
    I think that the cold hard solution is to remove the malformed rigging sections and replace with new.  This time use either shellac or bookbinders PVA  (pH neutral) instead of CA.
    A willingness to scrap subpar work and start over is a useful mindset and habit - especially for scratch build.   The short redo time will save a much longer time of feeling regret every time you look at the model.
  14. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Justin P. in Covering up CA   
    I think that the cold hard solution is to remove the malformed rigging sections and replace with new.  This time use either shellac or bookbinders PVA  (pH neutral) instead of CA.
    A willingness to scrap subpar work and start over is a useful mindset and habit - especially for scratch build.   The short redo time will save a much longer time of feeling regret every time you look at the model.
  15. Like
    Jaager reacted to Bob Cleek in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    It would seem that the Peanut6's question, which he titled an "education request," invited a comparison of pros and cons of the various options. As something of a "professional" yacht finisher myself once upon a time, I'm glad to hear that glbarlow's cabinet refinishers used something other than shellac or "satin" varnish, neither of which were the best option for the hard use kitchen cabinets endure. "Satin" varnish is best avoided altogether. It lacks UV filters and will degrade quickly in direct sunlight. It's often also difficult to keep the flattening agent evenly in suspension while applying it, resulting in an uneven flat/gloss level on the surface and the flattening paste (dust, essentially) obscures the wood below it. Clear "satin" finishes are made to mimic a real hand-rubbed finish and they do that poorly, at best. Shellac as a final finish on just about anything that will be handled is just wrong, other than on heirloom quality fine furniture, and then only when applied as "French polish," in which each shellac coat is hand-rubbed with oil, resulting in a finish that is a combination of oil and shellac.
     
    A "satin" or "hand-rubbed" look finish is accomplished using a hard top quality clear gloss finish which is hand rubbed with pumice and rottenstone until the desired level of gloss or "satin" is attained. No coatings chemist has yet to produce a brushed or sprayed finish "out of the can" that equals a real hand-rubbed finish. The real hand-rubbed finish is like no other in both appearance and feel. It's clarity and smoothness is unlike anything else. When the nature of a hull lends itself to hand-rubbing, either to depict either a painted or bright (clear) finished surface at "scale viewing distance," a real hand-rubbed finish is unequaled for that application. 
     
    If it makes the polyurethane fans feel any better, Hamburg-made Steinway pianos have been finished with a sprayed polyester finish for the last 30 years or so and have a deep high-gloss finish. New York Steinway pianos, an entirely different model with different tonal qualities, are finished with hand-rubbed lacquer and have a deep satin finish. Nobody knows fine finishes better than the Steinway company and even they find it useful to use two different coatings for different reasons to finish their pianos. You can be sure, though, that Steinway isn't using shellac or "wipe on poly" on any of its pianos!
     
    For those wood finishing wonks, here's an interesting article on how Steinways are refinished: The Art of Refinishing a Piano | Steinway and Sons Piano Refinishing (chuppspianos.com)
     
     
  16. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from thibaultron in Covering up CA   
    I think that the cold hard solution is to remove the malformed rigging sections and replace with new.  This time use either shellac or bookbinders PVA  (pH neutral) instead of CA.
    A willingness to scrap subpar work and start over is a useful mindset and habit - especially for scratch build.   The short redo time will save a much longer time of feeling regret every time you look at the model.
  17. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from EricWilliamMarshall in "material" of the ships fitting, or what color do I paint it?   
    Kearnold,
     
    If this is not 'one-off' model and you intend to build others, you might consider using this as an opportunity to dip your toe into the scratch build world.  Replace the wooden component castings with dublicates that you fabricate using actual scale appropriate wood.  You should research the actual scantlings of the parts to be built.  The castings may be over scale to begin with. 
    If you can make friends with a near by modeler who has the proper tools, The choice of wood species available to you is much greater than that available to those who fabricate hulls.  The parts that you need can come from the same stock as those turning pens since it is all small.   The choices available as 4x4 and 8x4 lumber are much fewer in number.
  18. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from wefalck in Covering up CA   
    I think that the cold hard solution is to remove the malformed rigging sections and replace with new.  This time use either shellac or bookbinders PVA  (pH neutral) instead of CA.
    A willingness to scrap subpar work and start over is a useful mindset and habit - especially for scratch build.   The short redo time will save a much longer time of feeling regret every time you look at the model.
  19. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Covering up CA   
    I think that the cold hard solution is to remove the malformed rigging sections and replace with new.  This time use either shellac or bookbinders PVA  (pH neutral) instead of CA.
    A willingness to scrap subpar work and start over is a useful mindset and habit - especially for scratch build.   The short redo time will save a much longer time of feeling regret every time you look at the model.
  20. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from BenD in Beginner marking tools   
    Boy! Is this something that is prone to get into a love me, love my tools sort of zone.
     
    I will just show my most often go-to basic tools for this
     
    First is a 6 inch steel ruler - Imperial and metric.  The ships I model  are Imperial based, but metric is easier to subdivide a distance with.
    a 3 inch machinist's square
    a technical lead pen  with soft lead 2mm insert  and a piece of 220 grit sandpaper to keep a ~60 degree wedge instead of a circular point.
     
    Old time woodworkers seem to prefer a knife mark  and a violin makers knife like this 3mm 
    I did not learn about a knife mark  until I was too set in my ways.
     
  21. Like
    Jaager reacted to mtaylor in Beginner marking tools   
    If you'll go to the article database here (https://thenrg.org/resource/articles) there's two relevant topics... The first is "Plans and Research" and the second is "Materials and Tools".  Unless you're like many of us, myself included) and are a toolholic, only buy tools as you need them and as you progress on your modeling.
  22. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from thibaultron in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    Poly urethane is a plastic.  I used it on my Walnut stained Oak kitchen floor in KY.  It looked good and held up well.  It certainly has its fans here for use on a model.  If you like a plastic look on a model on a vessel from 100+ years ago,  it is worth a look. It is simple enough to use.
     
    Should you be more traditionally oriented, a simple, low cost, forgiving material is shellac.  More coats more depth.  Too shiny, Scotch Brite, steel wool, or bronze wool will dull it.
    A low cost way is
    Lee Valley shellac flakes 1/4 lb  -  choice of 3 shades for how warm and aged you are going for.
    a can of denatured alcohol
    for light 10% is enough (10 g in 100 ml)  the medium can probably be 20% , and the dark maybe 30%. 
    Rag or brush to apply.
    If you double or triple bag the dry flakes and put them in a freezer they should store for years.  just make sure that they are RT before you open the stored flakes.
    It comes pre-mixed (avoid the silly aerosol version)  just be aware that the shelf life is limited.
     
    A rule that learned in organic chem is that a reaction rate doubles for every 10 degree C temp rise.   Going from 20 C  to  -10 /20 C   is a 4-8-16 times longer half life for a compound prone to oxidation.
     
  23. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    Poly urethane is a plastic.  I used it on my Walnut stained Oak kitchen floor in KY.  It looked good and held up well.  It certainly has its fans here for use on a model.  If you like a plastic look on a model on a vessel from 100+ years ago,  it is worth a look. It is simple enough to use.
     
    Should you be more traditionally oriented, a simple, low cost, forgiving material is shellac.  More coats more depth.  Too shiny, Scotch Brite, steel wool, or bronze wool will dull it.
    A low cost way is
    Lee Valley shellac flakes 1/4 lb  -  choice of 3 shades for how warm and aged you are going for.
    a can of denatured alcohol
    for light 10% is enough (10 g in 100 ml)  the medium can probably be 20% , and the dark maybe 30%. 
    Rag or brush to apply.
    If you double or triple bag the dry flakes and put them in a freezer they should store for years.  just make sure that they are RT before you open the stored flakes.
    It comes pre-mixed (avoid the silly aerosol version)  just be aware that the shelf life is limited.
     
    A rule that learned in organic chem is that a reaction rate doubles for every 10 degree C temp rise.   Going from 20 C  to  -10 /20 C   is a 4-8-16 times longer half life for a compound prone to oxidation.
     
  24. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from thibaultron in "material" of the ships fitting, or what color do I paint it?   
    Kearnold,
     
    If this is not 'one-off' model and you intend to build others, you might consider using this as an opportunity to dip your toe into the scratch build world.  Replace the wooden component castings with dublicates that you fabricate using actual scale appropriate wood.  You should research the actual scantlings of the parts to be built.  The castings may be over scale to begin with. 
    If you can make friends with a near by modeler who has the proper tools, The choice of wood species available to you is much greater than that available to those who fabricate hulls.  The parts that you need can come from the same stock as those turning pens since it is all small.   The choices available as 4x4 and 8x4 lumber are much fewer in number.
  25. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Degradation of lead and Britannia fittings   
    John,
     
    I would think that a clear coat of the organic solvent sort would buy you time, but if the "white glue" is PVA, that has the potential to be a disaster.  The final product in lead disease is lead acetate -I believe.
    I am not sure how much if any acetate is in bookbinders PVA,  but all other woodworkers PVA has as much acetic acid as 5% vinegar.  My guess is that a PVA coat would accelerate the disintegration of a lead casting.  
    The clear coat using lacquer et al. has the disadvantage of not being glass and thus allowing gases to migrate across it.  A quick smell of vinegar tells you that acetic acid is partially a gas at RT.  
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