Benjamin S

Hi again, it's been a minute since l posted so l figured it was about time to give you an update so you didn't think l had abandoned her.

l haven't gotten tooo much done... but l did get some done, most notably l have traced out a bunch of stuff, and have actually cut out and started refining the keel.

l think it's fair to say l have run into conundrum 2... the keel. The problem- it's still a wee warped. The solution...l don't know. l do have pics tho (the 3 keel pieces)

As you can see it's still a little warped, though thankfully nothing too major. My foreseeable options are  A: deal with it now before glueing together. Or B: wait until I'm installing the bulkheads and straighten it out then. It looks to me like it's a small enough bent that l could fix it later when l fare the bulkheads...but should l do it now?

On another note the joints are going to need a little wedging and sanding, so l am going to need to sort that out, and hopefully get the "reference" line straight.

Anyway l will keep chipping away at this, let me know if you have any suggestions for how/ in what order to do these  

Benjamin

Ok, so I looked up a few different ways to straighten plywood, and one method I found was to wet the "inside" of the curve (in my last post that would be the right side), then apply some weight while it dries. So, that's what I did.

Afterward, I left it to dry overnight, and when I checked it the next morning, the curve had significantly lessened (this was the better of the two). l will straighten the keel out again using a jig when it's time to add the bulkheads.

The paper also came with several tracing tools, which I tested in different sizes.

Ultimately, I ended up using the second smallest one. I've only done piece 2 of the keel so far (the bulkhead you see was a test run), and it turned out pretty easy since there were lots of straight lines. I just used a ruler for most of it, and it went pretty well.

Technically, I also worked on piece 1 of the keel, but I only realized after I finished tracing that I had the graphite paper upside down haha. . The first of many mistakes l will make here. But lesson learned, l will be sure to triple check l have the right side facing down from now on lol.

Benjamin

I have a question for all of you. I was taking a look at my 3/32" plywood and realized it’s pretty warped both lengthwise and widthwise.

This got me thinking: what if, instead of flattening it out after I cut out the bulkheads and keel, I cut the plywood into 5" strips first (like so),

and straighten it out now before everything has been cut out? I think it might save me some time later on.

Let me know if you think this is a good idea.

Thanks,
Benjamin

So, not much going on right now. I went ahead and got some tracing and graphite paper, and I’ve started sketching everything out. My plan so far is to tape everything down with painter's tape to ensure there’s no movement while I trace.

When working on the keel, I also plan to mark the rabbet, bearding line, etc.

i've only done a couple of them now, but i'm hoping to finish tracing by the end of today.

Benjamin

Hello Hamilton, glad to hear i'm not alone with the awkwardly packaged goods lol. I'm a big fan of your Bluenose and l'd love to have you along for the ride. 

Benjamin 

Anyway... l think the first order of business is to transfer the plans to some paper l can use as templates for the keel and bulkheads. l have heard of a few methods used...carbon/graphite paper and photocopying being the most common. l do have access to a photocopier but l have heard they can distort images (tho l do not know if that applies to all printers). So i'm thinking of going with carbon paper tho l would have to buy some as l am out at the moment.  Let me know if there are any other methods you think l should consider using.

Thanks,

Benjmain

Hello again, everyone! The plans have arrived!

I have a question for all of you. I know many of you have ordered from Model Expo before, but I’m starting to question their shipping methods.

When I first ordered the plans a couple of weeks ago, they arrived, but they were missing the first three pages. I reached out to Model Expo, and they were good about it and said they would send free replacements (which they did).

However, my issue is with the packaging of the replacement plans. The original package was sent in a sturdy cardboard tube and the plans were rolled neatly (like so)

But the replacement plans arrived like this:

It seems they were just tossed into a box. While I know it’s not a huge deal, there are now creases, including a large one going down the middle. It’s not the biggest issue for me personally, but it’s more about the principle—when I needed a replacement for an order they messed up, I feel like they should have used better/normal packaging, right?

Am I being unreasonable, or does this seem like a valid concern?

Hello all, and welcome to what will be a scratch build POB of the Model Shipways Bluenose in 1:64 scale, joining the ranks of builds here on MSW.

After taking a break to focus on finishing high school, I’m excited to get back into this and use the shipyard again. As a Canadian, I’ve always been a big fan of the Bluenose, and I’m really looking forward to building her for the first time. This is also the first time I’ve purchased plans from Model Shipways, and I’m excited to skip the printing process—this will definitely speed things up. Thankfully there are build logs here chock full of helpful info for one building Bluenose, especially a beautiful scratch build done by Hamilton which l will certainly be referencing often.

My goal with this build is not so much historical accuracy as it is to introduce myself to posting on MSW as well as using proper materials (where my budget allows), which should improve both the quality and speed of building this vessel. I’ve been planking hulls with coffee stirrers for far too long, haha! I’ll no doubt have a lot of questions along the way, and I’d really appreciate any guidance or constructive criticism as I figure this out.

At the moment, I’m waiting for the plans to arrive, but once they do, I’ll kick off the build and get started.

Best Regards,

Benjamin

Great job, just found your build, pulling up a seat and looking forward to seeing it move along.

2 hours ago, mtaylor said:

But it would be fun to mount them around the house with the barrels out the windows.    I'll get my coat....  

ah yes, my weaponized house will soon be complete.

3 minutes ago, allanyed said:

If that is the case, the plans appear to be scaled at 1" = 100"    A 1" long gun would be just short of a 8' 5" barrel.  I am PM'g you 3D drawings of 9 and 18 pounder guns in that length that you can use to get these 3D printed in black resin.   Let me know if you need contact information on a printer or you can give them to a printer close to your home to discuss.   These will be FULL size drawings so you need to tell your printer you want them scaled down to 1:100.

Allan

thanks, that would be bad if I got them all at full size cannons.

5 hours ago, grsjax said:

Depends on the alloy you choose.  Some can be melted on a stove.

that's true, but my parents might not be happy if I burn the house down.

35 minutes ago, Lieste said:

Those two stern chase ports (at least) should be unfilled, or use the guns from the aftmost broadside QD port. Guns would not be supplied to both in general, especially when so cramped - both couldn't recoil without contact and/or serious risk to guns crew.

I also question the number of QD/FC ordnance in general - my notes indicate only 10 6pdrs as built (all on QD?), 16 24pdr carronades as refitted following her first cruise, and 20 total once refitted in 1810 with her final 32pdr carronade establishment (though 4 of them are then the 12pdr guns, with another 2 of these also on the upper deck (main battery deck))

I agree with you on those last two they seem pretty haserdise, so yea I might not add them.

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hi Benjamin,

 

At fifteen years old you may very well be our youngest ship modeler at MSW.  Congratulations!

 

I realize might becoming a jigsaw puzzle of sorts for you.  Just take a step or two at a time and it will all come together.

Let us know what size you decide to go with and I will send you the appropriate 3D drawings if I have them for the sizes you need. 

 

It may be easy to confirm the scale if you can let us know what the size of the paper plan is?  If it is 1:70 scale I am guessing they are about 36" X 24"

 

Allan 

 

thank you...the plans appear to be 25" by 17 1/2". To get that size I basiclly looked at mesurements on the plans and kept making them bigger intel a 3in long thing on the plans was 3 in then I glued like 16 pages together. The type of cannon I like the most are the like the ones on the plans, so the size of cannon I will  go with is 25mm long as it will also should be to size with the plans.

5 minutes ago, Lieste said:

Yes, but if you have two patterns of ordnance, both 8.5ft long  -  then a 24pdr will look short and squat if compared to a rather narrower and more elegant 6pdr would. The proportions of a shorter gun in each bore look more like the heavier guns than to the longest pattern of the smaller size. If you are scaling from an existing 3d model (though you indicate you may not be doing this), then scaling a heavier pattern to a smaller size might give a better result than using a too-long gun of the correct bore.

The 12pdr short US pattern of the 1790s is rather closer to the proportion of a 32pdr Armstrong than a 12pdr Armstrong (iron, naval) of any pattern actually built would be, once reduced in proportion of 4.623:6.41(the bore of the 12pdr:32pdr)

ok I think I understand,  so when you say 3d model do you mean like a finished model somebody made or a 3d rendering of a model?

1 hour ago, uss frolick said:

I you're doing Essex in 1/4 inch scale, then Blue Jacket makes a perfect 32-pounder carronade and slide carriage in that scale. It is their largest carronade, but it is not specifically called a 1/4 inch gun. Both are made from a pewter alloy.

 

its on this page:

 

https://www.bluejacketinc.com/buckets-cannons-old-style-dahlgren-parrott-brooke-falconets-carronades-cannon-carriages-2/

 

 

 

 

I actually do not know what the scale is but I am using the AEROPICCOLA plans but they do not say the scale on them.

36 minutes ago, Lieste said:

The 12pdr specified for Constitution in the 1790s were 6ft 8.7" (Breech ring to muzzle face, for a gross length of 18.2 calibres (common to the other patterns (including the 24pdr (8.5ft) noted for this era, except the 18pdr, which was 18.9 (8ft)). This latter is the same length as the shortest 18pdr British naval pattern, a and the 12pdr is a very little shorter than the 32pdr British (18.5 cals, 9.5ft), and not as long as the other British patterns (which in Frigate pattern smaller bore guns reach a little over 20 calibres, and much longer in the longest patterns of small guns).

I'd scale from the British 32pdr to meet the length/width rather than use a 12pdr gun, unless you want to go to the trouble of looking up the US moulding pattern and drafting the right model.
When scaling for overall length allow 2 calibres for the breech face and button on top of the noted length.

I am sorry but I am confused. so correct me if i'm wrong but pdr means the weight of the projectetil that is being shot right ?

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

Benjamin,

I PM'd you 32 pounder carronade drawings and as you now know, they are totally inappropriate except for the times mentioned above.  If you are going to go with long guns, I can email you 3D drawings of long guns at your scale that are more appropriate in pattern.  They will be Armstrong Frederick pattern, but at your scale will certainly be closer in looks than having all Carronades like those built at Carron.

It matters a lot if YOU want the model to look like the ship did.  If you don't care, so be it, it is your model after all.   PM me what calibers (shot weight such as 9 pounders, 12pounders, etc.) I will send the 3D drawings for various lengths of each which you can email to a printer.  If you need a printer in the US I can also email you a contact that has done cannon for me in the past.  I have not had any made in over a year, but I am pretty sure he is still doing this.  

 

Allan

I don't know, honestly i'm just 15, cannon sizes and 3d printing patterns are way out of my comfort zone. This is my first time making cannons to scale so I will probably go with all the same size cannons. I do like the look of long cannons of ships tho.

13 minutes ago, thibaultron said:

According the Wikipedia she carried

• Upper deck: 26 × 18-pounder guns
• Quarter Deck: 12 × 32-pounder carronades
• Forecastle: 2 × 9-pounder guns + 2 × 32-pounder carronades
• So you need a mix of cannons
• There is an Anatomy Of the Ship book on her. If you want to go for a scratch build, you might want to get it.

https://www.amazon.com/32-Gun-Frigate-Essex-Anatomy-Ship/dp/0961502169

 

thanks, how much does the different kinds of cannons matter on a model ship is it even notable?. I have only ever made them the same size (or as much as you can with a drill press)  

18 hours ago, grsjax said:

Make one and use it as a pattern for a silicone mold to cast the others using a low temperature alloy.

 

yea that could work, only problem is that I have never cast metal before. a blow torch could probably be used to melt it but I don't have one.

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

We have a number of drawings in 3D, but for the carronades I only have the 2D at this point.  I am PMing you the 2D drawings as DXF, PNG, and PDF and perhaps some member has already done them in 3D so you can get them printed.   I am assuming yours is a kit from Model Shipways at 1:76 scale.  If that is the scale, the overall barrel length should be 20mm, not 25mm for a 32 pounder.  I scaled the original drawing and sending to you on the PM.

 

For the actual 3Dprinting I have had samples done in various materials, but resin works far better than anything else that was tried.    

 

Allan

thanks for the drawings, so the only thing I have to work with are plans and they are the AEROPICCOLA plans. as far as cannons go you would know better then I this is what they look like on the plans that I have they seen to be cannons which is weird. Is it the carronades that like swivel ? and the cannons that look like cannons? if you know what I mean  so second picture is a carronade and the third is a cannon?

13 minutes ago, Gregory said:

 

We have a member, Doris who hasn't been active in a while, but has made some incredible card models.

 

Here is where she shows some detail of her cannon making.

 

Click on the arrow in the upper right of the image above to see her method.

 

Make sure you click through her logs to see some incredible work.

 

thanks I will check it out. jeez no kidding this is amazing, some people are like wizards when it comes to this stuff but out of cards!!!

it's quite amazing

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

What ship, year, nationality?  I have not paid more than $0.75 each, including freight, for perfect cannon, everyone exactly the same, done by a 3D printer that takes on small jobs like yours.   I just emailed the appropriate drawings and I had them in a week or so.
Allan 

So the ship is the fridgate USS Essex 1799 and had 40 32 pounder carronades. it would be a good idea to use a 3d printer actually one of my uncles has one maybe  i should ask him.

3 hours ago, DavidG said:

You may have a look on Amati gun barrels, they have 27mm ones pretty cheap

https://store.amatimodel.com/en/small-parts-and-accessories-for-model-making/product-metal-cannon-barrels-mm27-b416427.html

oh yea I see what you mean that is much better then what I saw, the cheapest ones on modelers central were like 1.80$ which adds up a lot when you need 42 of them

2 hours ago, Jaager said:

On a foundational level - a wood lathe is probably a very poor choice of tool for small and detailed tasks.  What it works for is about ten times larger than the job on the table.

A metal lathe is the tool.  The precision and tolerances are in line for this job.

For multiple identical copies an efficient way is to start with a pattern and use a duplicator attachment.

I knowThis is the one I bought to use with my Unimat SL1000.   The real Unimat lathe series is long out of manufacture so a generic attachment was my option:

 

I realize that this is not what you want to read.  It is way beyond your budget.   Still, to avoid the waste of following false trails,  it is better to at least have a map of the terrain at issue.

 

I have been compulsive in making sure that the lack of the proper tool not be an impediment.  It strikes me as a  bit ironic  that should I break my loop and actually take a hull to completion,  I intend to for it to be a ship after the shipwrights are finished but either on the way to the masting and rigging dock or leaving the masting dock and on the way to the armory.   My esthetics see the guns as a distraction - mostly clutter - sort of busy looking  -  my focus is on the swimming body.

yea that is a great long term solution for the future, and you can make a whole lot of things on them but yea it is as you correctly said "it is way beyond my budget"