Benjamin sullivan

Great job, just found your build, pulling up a seat and looking forward to seeing it move along.

2 hours ago, mtaylor said:

But it would be fun to mount them around the house with the barrels out the windows.    I'll get my coat....  

ah yes, my weaponized house will soon be complete.

3 minutes ago, allanyed said:

If that is the case, the plans appear to be scaled at 1" = 100"    A 1" long gun would be just short of a 8' 5" barrel.  I am PM'g you 3D drawings of 9 and 18 pounder guns in that length that you can use to get these 3D printed in black resin.   Let me know if you need contact information on a printer or you can give them to a printer close to your home to discuss.   These will be FULL size drawings so you need to tell your printer you want them scaled down to 1:100.

Allan

thanks, that would be bad if I got them all at full size cannons.

5 hours ago, grsjax said:

Depends on the alloy you choose.  Some can be melted on a stove.

that's true, but my parents might not be happy if I burn the house down.

35 minutes ago, Lieste said:

Those two stern chase ports (at least) should be unfilled, or use the guns from the aftmost broadside QD port. Guns would not be supplied to both in general, especially when so cramped - both couldn't recoil without contact and/or serious risk to guns crew.

I also question the number of QD/FC ordnance in general - my notes indicate only 10 6pdrs as built (all on QD?), 16 24pdr carronades as refitted following her first cruise, and 20 total once refitted in 1810 with her final 32pdr carronade establishment (though 4 of them are then the 12pdr guns, with another 2 of these also on the upper deck (main battery deck))

I agree with you on those last two they seem pretty haserdise, so yea I might not add them.

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hi Benjamin,

 

At fifteen years old you may very well be our youngest ship modeler at MSW.  Congratulations!

 

I realize might becoming a jigsaw puzzle of sorts for you.  Just take a step or two at a time and it will all come together.

Let us know what size you decide to go with and I will send you the appropriate 3D drawings if I have them for the sizes you need. 

 

It may be easy to confirm the scale if you can let us know what the size of the paper plan is?  If it is 1:70 scale I am guessing they are about 36" X 24"

 

Allan 

 

thank you...the plans appear to be 25" by 17 1/2". To get that size I basiclly looked at mesurements on the plans and kept making them bigger intel a 3in long thing on the plans was 3 in then I glued like 16 pages together. The type of cannon I like the most are the like the ones on the plans, so the size of cannon I will  go with is 25mm long as it will also should be to size with the plans.

5 minutes ago, Lieste said:

Yes, but if you have two patterns of ordnance, both 8.5ft long  -  then a 24pdr will look short and squat if compared to a rather narrower and more elegant 6pdr would. The proportions of a shorter gun in each bore look more like the heavier guns than to the longest pattern of the smaller size. If you are scaling from an existing 3d model (though you indicate you may not be doing this), then scaling a heavier pattern to a smaller size might give a better result than using a too-long gun of the correct bore.

The 12pdr short US pattern of the 1790s is rather closer to the proportion of a 32pdr Armstrong than a 12pdr Armstrong (iron, naval) of any pattern actually built would be, once reduced in proportion of 4.623:6.41(the bore of the 12pdr:32pdr)

ok I think I understand,  so when you say 3d model do you mean like a finished model somebody made or a 3d rendering of a model?

1 hour ago, uss frolick said:

I you're doing Essex in 1/4 inch scale, then Blue Jacket makes a perfect 32-pounder carronade and slide carriage in that scale. It is their largest carronade, but it is not specifically called a 1/4 inch gun. Both are made from a pewter alloy.

 

its on this page:

 

https://www.bluejacketinc.com/buckets-cannons-old-style-dahlgren-parrott-brooke-falconets-carronades-cannon-carriages-2/

 

 

 

 

I actually do not know what the scale is but I am using the AEROPICCOLA plans but they do not say the scale on them.

36 minutes ago, Lieste said:

The 12pdr specified for Constitution in the 1790s were 6ft 8.7" (Breech ring to muzzle face, for a gross length of 18.2 calibres (common to the other patterns (including the 24pdr (8.5ft) noted for this era, except the 18pdr, which was 18.9 (8ft)). This latter is the same length as the shortest 18pdr British naval pattern, a and the 12pdr is a very little shorter than the 32pdr British (18.5 cals, 9.5ft), and not as long as the other British patterns (which in Frigate pattern smaller bore guns reach a little over 20 calibres, and much longer in the longest patterns of small guns).

I'd scale from the British 32pdr to meet the length/width rather than use a 12pdr gun, unless you want to go to the trouble of looking up the US moulding pattern and drafting the right model.
When scaling for overall length allow 2 calibres for the breech face and button on top of the noted length.

I am sorry but I am confused. so correct me if i'm wrong but pdr means the weight of the projectetil that is being shot right ?

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

Benjamin,

I PM'd you 32 pounder carronade drawings and as you now know, they are totally inappropriate except for the times mentioned above.  If you are going to go with long guns, I can email you 3D drawings of long guns at your scale that are more appropriate in pattern.  They will be Armstrong Frederick pattern, but at your scale will certainly be closer in looks than having all Carronades like those built at Carron.

It matters a lot if YOU want the model to look like the ship did.  If you don't care, so be it, it is your model after all.   PM me what calibers (shot weight such as 9 pounders, 12pounders, etc.) I will send the 3D drawings for various lengths of each which you can email to a printer.  If you need a printer in the US I can also email you a contact that has done cannon for me in the past.  I have not had any made in over a year, but I am pretty sure he is still doing this.  

 

Allan

I don't know, honestly i'm just 15, cannon sizes and 3d printing patterns are way out of my comfort zone. This is my first time making cannons to scale so I will probably go with all the same size cannons. I do like the look of long cannons of ships tho.

13 minutes ago, thibaultron said:

According the Wikipedia she carried

• Upper deck: 26 × 18-pounder guns
• Quarter Deck: 12 × 32-pounder carronades
• Forecastle: 2 × 9-pounder guns + 2 × 32-pounder carronades
• So you need a mix of cannons
• There is an Anatomy Of the Ship book on her. If you want to go for a scratch build, you might want to get it.

https://www.amazon.com/32-Gun-Frigate-Essex-Anatomy-Ship/dp/0961502169

 

thanks, how much does the different kinds of cannons matter on a model ship is it even notable?. I have only ever made them the same size (or as much as you can with a drill press)  

18 hours ago, grsjax said:

Make one and use it as a pattern for a silicone mold to cast the others using a low temperature alloy.

 

yea that could work, only problem is that I have never cast metal before. a blow torch could probably be used to melt it but I don't have one.

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

We have a number of drawings in 3D, but for the carronades I only have the 2D at this point.  I am PMing you the 2D drawings as DXF, PNG, and PDF and perhaps some member has already done them in 3D so you can get them printed.   I am assuming yours is a kit from Model Shipways at 1:76 scale.  If that is the scale, the overall barrel length should be 20mm, not 25mm for a 32 pounder.  I scaled the original drawing and sending to you on the PM.

 

For the actual 3Dprinting I have had samples done in various materials, but resin works far better than anything else that was tried.    

 

Allan

thanks for the drawings, so the only thing I have to work with are plans and they are the AEROPICCOLA plans. as far as cannons go you would know better then I this is what they look like on the plans that I have they seen to be cannons which is weird. Is it the carronades that like swivel ? and the cannons that look like cannons? if you know what I mean  so second picture is a carronade and the third is a cannon?

13 minutes ago, Gregory said:

 

We have a member, Doris who hasn't been active in a while, but has made some incredible card models.

 

Here is where she shows some detail of her cannon making.

 

Click on the arrow in the upper right of the image above to see her method.

 

Make sure you click through her logs to see some incredible work.

 

thanks I will check it out. jeez no kidding this is amazing, some people are like wizards when it comes to this stuff but out of cards!!!

it's quite amazing

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

What ship, year, nationality?  I have not paid more than $0.75 each, including freight, for perfect cannon, everyone exactly the same, done by a 3D printer that takes on small jobs like yours.   I just emailed the appropriate drawings and I had them in a week or so.
Allan 

So the ship is the fridgate USS Essex 1799 and had 40 32 pounder carronades. it would be a good idea to use a 3d printer actually one of my uncles has one maybe  i should ask him.

3 hours ago, DavidG said:

You may have a look on Amati gun barrels, they have 27mm ones pretty cheap

https://store.amatimodel.com/en/small-parts-and-accessories-for-model-making/product-metal-cannon-barrels-mm27-b416427.html

oh yea I see what you mean that is much better then what I saw, the cheapest ones on modelers central were like 1.80$ which adds up a lot when you need 42 of them

2 hours ago, Jaager said:

On a foundational level - a wood lathe is probably a very poor choice of tool for small and detailed tasks.  What it works for is about ten times larger than the job on the table.

A metal lathe is the tool.  The precision and tolerances are in line for this job.

For multiple identical copies an efficient way is to start with a pattern and use a duplicator attachment.

I knowThis is the one I bought to use with my Unimat SL1000.   The real Unimat lathe series is long out of manufacture so a generic attachment was my option:

 

I realize that this is not what you want to read.  It is way beyond your budget.   Still, to avoid the waste of following false trails,  it is better to at least have a map of the terrain at issue.

 

I have been compulsive in making sure that the lack of the proper tool not be an impediment.  It strikes me as a  bit ironic  that should I break my loop and actually take a hull to completion,  I intend to for it to be a ship after the shipwrights are finished but either on the way to the masting and rigging dock or leaving the masting dock and on the way to the armory.   My esthetics see the guns as a distraction - mostly clutter - sort of busy looking  -  my focus is on the swimming body.

yea that is a great long term solution for the future, and you can make a whole lot of things on them but yea it is as you correctly said "it is way beyond my budget"

4 hours ago, Gregory said:

I'll try to find a method by one of our members who used rolled up paper.  They looked as good as any I have seen..

 

Someone else may find it before I do..

that is not something I would have thought ,of it will be interesting to see what that looks like.

Hello, I am working on scratch building a ship, and I need to make like 42 cannons or something. So I have made them before on a drill press ,but they are a pain to get all the same size and detail is extraordinarily difficult. so is there a good way to make them, I know buying them is an option but 42 cannons can be quite expensive, also the cannons are pretty small they are 25 mm long.

so yea any suggestions welcome.thanks

On 12/21/2022 at 12:16 PM, Roger Pellett said:

Benjamin,  If you are 15 years old, you must be in high school.  If you have time in your schedule, WITHOUT NEGLECTING REALLY IMPORTANT SUBJECTS, you might check to see if you can take a basic machine shop course.  This would teach you what these tools can and cannot do as well as how to use them safely.  This could also help you to avoid  wasting your money on the wrong tool.

 

I also agree that adapting a corded electric drill to make a homemade lathe is a good idea.  An electric drill is a basic tool that you will never waste your money buying.

 

Roger

kind of funny actually my grand father is a carpender and my family live on a farm so I have quite an expirence with building thing from sheds to 1.2 kilometer long fences to pig pens . we are home schooled so while we do have quite a few tools which is nice  one of my uncle's works in a  high school  and he says they have some realy cool tools there.

7 hours ago, Jaager said:

Benjamin,

Playing the numbers, knowing nothing about your real situation, 

at 15 you are likely entering a time of brain development that will only be complete when age ~22 is reached. 

Your interests may change significantly as this proceeds.  Making major capital outlays for tools now, based on a focus that may change significantly,  may leave you with tools that you have no use for.   Returns from the second hand tool market are decidedly in a buyers favor. 

 

If the buyer of your current model is family or pseudo family then you are assured of a return.  If you intend to sell to a stranger,  I believe that the experience with most who do  is that the selling price is pretty close to what was paid for the kit.   I think for most of us, getting a return that is equal to materials plus hours spent x $15  is an opium dream.

 

Check some recent threads here about adapting an electric drill to act as a lathe.  A corded electric drill is a tool that will be useful for your whole life.  A cordless rechargeable drill is more convenient but the batteries have a shelf life and buying a replacement in the future - may be difficult due to tech changes or companies being companies, or cost more than it is worth.

 

 

 

thank you, I feel like I will probiably continue making model ship's in the future as I have been into this for a while and am still quite interested. 

The ship I am making is from scratch and there is not that much I need to buy supply wise mabe 60$ at most, but I deffinetly look for second hand metal mini wood lathe as Cleek  sudgested.

cheers.

Hello, I was wondering if any of you could help me with suggesting a mini wood lathe for my self.

I have looked at a bunch of them but which ones do you think are the best from experiance. I intend to use it for cannons, spars ect 

the downside is that I am 15 so my budget is under 250$ which I will have once I sell my boat I am currently working on.

thanks.

5 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

Well, heck.  I thought the drama was over.  But noooooooo, the palm-to-forehead slaps keep piling up on this project!  I got up this morning feeling smug about my work, took an admiring look at the ship resting snug and secure inside the bottle, and began snipping the pull threads below the bowsprit.  And then I realized I had forgotten to attach the ship's boats before putting the whole thing in the bottle.  Yet another dodo moment.  Ugh.  Ugh.  Ugh.

 

Fortunately, it was not too difficult to put the little devils in place on top of the crutch.  Then I added some texture and whitecaps to the water. 

 

With that, the work inside the bottle is officially complete!  Now it's back to the display to finish things up.  On the homestretch now!!

great job, looks marvilis 

Wow, looks great put together

thanks, I think I will just buy more. but thanks for the tip of taping the blades.