SJSoane

Very nice, Remco, a level of detail not seen before. You will need to have a book of photos beside your ship when it is done, to show off all of the details...

Mark

Gary,

Beautiful, as always. I noticed the tubes between the pump cisterns. I hadn't seen that before. Very nice!

I still don't know where my helm port transom is going. I'll keep looking at yours very carefully as a source of inspiration.

Best wishes,

Mark

Hi everyone,

A quick update on the Bellona's stern. I don't get much time in the shop these days, so it is going very slowly.

Fitting the counter timbers is trickier than I ever would have imagined. The counters round back and up, and the vertical timbers taper to point some distance above the hull. But not all taper. The ones on either side of the stern post are vertical; and the ones on the outboard side of the gunports are vertical alongside the gunport and then crank to align with the taper of the others above the gunport. I have shown these cranked timbers in the first photo.

Everything is loosely fitted right now, and not yet sanded to final fairing. I haven't yet figured out the rudder port shape, so it is just a slab sitting in the place where chocks will have to go, with a penciled in shape of the port. I may build the rudder next to see what the shape of the port will be.

It is pretty thin construction here. I can see why a broadside raking the stern would devastate the decks.

Good thing I am not in a hurry, and don't have any raking broadsides coming my way yet...

Mark

It is always a pleasure to see your work under construction....

Mark

Doris,

Stunning work. I would never believe this is possible if I did not see it on your build log.

Mark

Beautfiul work, Ed, and always a pleasure to see the photos of your building techniques.

Mark

Hey Gary, I think I see the solution to my problem in your model. The helm port transom when it is cast down has also moved forward. That means I can align with the stern post at its lower level, and still have it sit down on the vertical timbers if it moves back a bit on the sides. I'll try to do a drawing later....

Mark

I was thinking about a nice Georgian style table and chairs for my Bellona's captain's cabin. Perhaps I can hire you to give me miniature furniture making lessons.

Just about beyond comprehension what you can do, Remco. Well done.

Best wishes,

Mark

Hi everyone,

It is getting more interesting. I have attached a drawing based on the NMM photo of the 1760 Bellona model, highlighting where the transoms appear to be. It looks to me like the one I have labeled helm port transom does sit down on the vertical counter timbers, and then drops down to the side of the stern post. So it definitely is not on top of the post, or there would be no room for the tiller. But Gary is right that it is not aligned with the aft side of the stern post as I had originally drawn it. It appears to line up a little abaft of the rabbet in the stern post, which, if it is 10-12 inches thick, would put it right in the middle of the stern post. It either has a bridle joint, or the two halves tenon into the side of the post. Also note that the heads of the gun ports are a little lower than the helm port transom.

More difficult is that when I draw the helm port in this new more forward location on the stern post, the two sides are now too high to sit on the vertical counter timbers. I have got to keep playing with this in section, before everything lines up to look like the photo of the original model...

Best wishes,

Mar

Hi Gary,

You are right; when I look at the Bellona photo again, the aft face of the helm port transom is forward of the aft face of the stern post. But the aft face seems to intersect at a line just about the same as the rabbet in the stern post, and that would have the transom hitting the center of stern post which could provide a bridle joint between the two. I am having trouble getting the helm port transom beyond the canted center part to intersect the lower counter timbers in this new position, and I will send a drawing later to show this.

But for now, do you have the specifications of the vertical counter timbers, in particular the fore and aft width where they sit on the wing transom, and at the lower counter knuckle? I may be working with the wrong dimensions, which would cause my transom in the new correct position not to intersect the vertical timbers. The dimensions I got from Steel don't seem to make things line up.

Mark

Hi everyone,

Thanks, druxey, Gary and Ed. It is so helpful to have your expertise and critical eye looking at these reconstructions. This website supports the most remarkable community of learners. This shared detective work is almost as fun as the actual construction...

So, here is the latest reconstruction in light of recent insights from all of you.

The biggest change is information that there was likely no rabbet into a transom for the upper deck planking. To give the planking some landing, I have shown a "nailer" fayed to the fore side of the lower counter moulding. Some of the planks are going to run right into the fore side of the vertical timbers and vanish down to no thickness at the sternmost end, but it is what it is.

I have also shown chocks like the ones Ed shows in his book, because the lower counter planking will need something to land on at the edge of the rudder port. There may be chocks further down, but I can't visualize that yet.

And I am showing a rabbet where the helm port transom intersects with the top of the stern post. I don't know how I am going to cut that rabbet in the post at this point, but we'll see. Gary, do you think this is the way they likely intersected?

Thanks again for your outstanding help.

Best wishes,

Mark

HI Gary,

Thanks, this is very helpful. I have sent you a PM with some additional information that show some of the unexpected complexities I am trying to resolve with this drawing. Maybe we can review the contract information with the info I have sent you.

Best wishes,

Mark

Thank you, druxey, that makes sense to label the last beam aft the transom. In my photos of the Bellona stern, the next one forward avoiding the rudder head clearly sits down on the counter timbers and is cut with an exposed rectangular end, so I'll go with the curved beam fayed onto the fore face.

The more I play detective on these complex constructions, the more impressed I am with the shipwright's art 250 years ago. But this drawing does look eerily like a space ship out of star wars....

Thanks again for your erudite help and good eye for detail.

Mark

Thank you, very nice and informative.

What a good idea. I probably could have retired years ago if I had not spent every spare penny on tools...

Nice find on that site, Mark.

Hi Mark,

It looks like you are applying every lesson you learned from version I regarding precision. I look forward to seeing this version develop!

Nice to have a set of fine fittings already made and waiting a new home...

Mark

Remco, you continue to set the standard!

Mark

And flags too, Doris! What are they made of and how did you make them? They're exquisite!

Hi Doris,

I am also interested in how you made the flags. What kind of fabric is it (it looks so realistic at scale), and how did you print these in a laser printer?

Best wishes,

Mark

Hi Sherry,

Can you tell us what paint brand and color you used for that wonderful blue, and how you applied it? I apologize if I missed this somewhere earlier in your log.

Mark

Thanks, Ed, I'll try that.

Looking at the images of the Bellona stern again, I see that there is a square transom at the upper deck level, which has to be cut to leave room for the rudder head.

Looking at the images pointed out to me by druxey, there are a number of 74s with curved beams around the rudder head. So here is another interpretation, with a curved joining piece fayed to the fore side of the two halves of the square transom that I see in the Bellona photos.

I am also showing a smaller transom to serve as a landing for the decking just fore of the vertical pieces.

I'll try to build it....

Mark

Thanks, druxey, this is very helpful. I looked up the plans you referenced, with a curved beam forward of the rudder head. I also found ZAZ7907 and ZAZ7908 that show the very broad transom. Gary had shown me something similar. The reason I am attracted to this is that the upper surface of the Bellona's upper deck planking hits the fore side of the vertical timbers right at the same level as the inside of the counter knuckle, leaving no landing whatsoever for them unless there is a fairly wide transom to get some thickness for a planking rabbet. The first drawing below shows how tight this is.

The second photo shows tantalizingly shadowy details of what is going on inboard of this construction....

Mark

Hi Ed,

It is looking great. Fun to see construction at the height of the shipbuilding art.

I did not have success using a paper cutter for cutting metal. The metal shifted away from the cutting edge. Did you clamp or tape down the sheet of metal while doing this?

Mark

Very nice, Alexandru!