glbarlow

Looks like I'm back in business.  Cornwall has shipped the copper I need. Once in I can finish the coppering and move on to something more interesting.  I put a keel board (I've been gone so long I've forgotten the proper terms) on the keel to finish off the copper there using a 5mm strip of hull planking and stained it natural.  Looks much neater than just wrapping the copper.
 
There is no good way I found to finish off the bow and stern except a single width of copper plating. (that's what the book says to do anyway).  I have to say I'm proud of a lot of the work I've done on past ships, the Pegasus especially, but I'm not particularly proud or thrilled with my copper work.  Its on (mostly) and it looks ok, but not something I'll EVER repeat.  It single handedly stopped me from building ship models for 2 years until I finally decided to just do it (maybe inspired by Nike commercials) but I don't recommend it.  Though I'd done it on my much smaller Pickle I think there is enough copper on the Vanguard to (if converted to 14 gauge wire) to wire my work room.  Yay...
 
I'd post a photo but the port side looks like the starboard side above...

Keith, Thank you for the link.  I had searched Cornwall's site and failed to locate the copper plating.  With your link I was able to place the order, I appreciate it!

Thanks - I sent them and Cornwall an email along with Amati.  Seems like something you should be able to find.  
 
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

It's been a while since I've had an update, and this isn't much of one except to celebrate a small victory, not the big HMS Victory, but a small HMS Vanguard related victory.  I've finally managed to complete the coppering...of the starboard side...
 

 
I was fortunate to have enough plates to finish, earlier in is this log I noted I ripped off 5 rows at the bow to do it over, glad there were enough extra in the kit to allow for mistakes like this.
 
I'm not excited about turning it over to see the bare port side I now have to do, so I procrastinated by completing the rudder.  Interestingly the brass straps provide in the kit do not appear to be designed to fit over a coppered rudder, the folding points for the two 90 degree turns to wrap around either side are 5 mm wide, the width of the wood, but not with two copper plates attached to the sides.  Doesn't matter for me anyway as I always choose to use thick black paper, easier to do and frankly for me it looks better once I glue it on and finish it with water based poly painted lightly on to harden and season it a bit.
 
Ok, off to the port side.  Until this is done I can't get back to the wood working part I like to do.  I have to admit though, as big a pain as it is to do it does look pretty nice on the ship.

Keith, Thank you for the link.  I had searched Cornwall's site and failed to locate the copper plating.  With your link I was able to place the order, I appreciate it!

Keith, Thank you for the link.  I had searched Cornwall's site and failed to locate the copper plating.  With your link I was able to place the order, I appreciate it!

Keith, Thank you for the link.  I had searched Cornwall's site and failed to locate the copper plating.  With your link I was able to place the order, I appreciate it!

Thanks - I sent them and Cornwall an email along with Amati.  Seems like something you should be able to find.  
 
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm back after a 2 year absence.  My model has been just sitting in the work room with me looking at the copper free port side.
 
I finally got back to it, got all the way to the last two rows of copper plate....and ran out.  I don't understand this.  I had plenty of extra for starboard but not enough to finish the port side.
 
Anyone know where I can get about a half sheet of port side copper for Amati's Victory Model Vanguard?

This is depressing, just noticed a lot of my photos are gone and I can't find my Pegasus build log - it was the best thing I've done. Admittedly it was a while ago, but still sad to see it gone.

I'm back after a 2 year absence.  My model has been just sitting in the work room with me looking at the copper free port side.
 
I finally got back to it, got all the way to the last two rows of copper plate....and ran out.  I don't understand this.  I had plenty of extra for starboard but not enough to finish the port side.
 
Anyone know where I can get about a half sheet of port side copper for Amati's Victory Model Vanguard?

It's been a while since I've had an update, and this isn't much of one except to celebrate a small victory, not the big HMS Victory, but a small HMS Vanguard related victory.  I've finally managed to complete the coppering...of the starboard side...
 

 
I was fortunate to have enough plates to finish, earlier in is this log I noted I ripped off 5 rows at the bow to do it over, glad there were enough extra in the kit to allow for mistakes like this.
 
I'm not excited about turning it over to see the bare port side I now have to do, so I procrastinated by completing the rudder.  Interestingly the brass straps provide in the kit do not appear to be designed to fit over a coppered rudder, the folding points for the two 90 degree turns to wrap around either side are 5 mm wide, the width of the wood, but not with two copper plates attached to the sides.  Doesn't matter for me anyway as I always choose to use thick black paper, easier to do and frankly for me it looks better once I glue it on and finish it with water based poly painted lightly on to harden and season it a bit.
 
Ok, off to the port side.  Until this is done I can't get back to the wood working part I like to do.  I have to admit though, as big a pain as it is to do it does look pretty nice on the ship.

Thanks - I sent them and Cornwall an email along with Amati.  Seems like something you should be able to find.  
 
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

I have but no response.

I have but no response.

I came up about two rows short of port side copper plating for my Amati Victory Models Vanguard.  I had just enough to finish the starboard, I don't know why I came up short on the port side, I had very little waste.
 
Anyone know where I can get about half a sheet of port side copper plating for this model?

It's been a while since I've had an update, and this isn't much of one except to celebrate a small victory, not the big HMS Victory, but a small HMS Vanguard related victory.  I've finally managed to complete the coppering...of the starboard side...
 

 
I was fortunate to have enough plates to finish, earlier in is this log I noted I ripped off 5 rows at the bow to do it over, glad there were enough extra in the kit to allow for mistakes like this.
 
I'm not excited about turning it over to see the bare port side I now have to do, so I procrastinated by completing the rudder.  Interestingly the brass straps provide in the kit do not appear to be designed to fit over a coppered rudder, the folding points for the two 90 degree turns to wrap around either side are 5 mm wide, the width of the wood, but not with two copper plates attached to the sides.  Doesn't matter for me anyway as I always choose to use thick black paper, easier to do and frankly for me it looks better once I glue it on and finish it with water based poly painted lightly on to harden and season it a bit.
 
Ok, off to the port side.  Until this is done I can't get back to the wood working part I like to do.  I have to admit though, as big a pain as it is to do it does look pretty nice on the ship.

It's been a while since I've had an update, and this isn't much of one except to celebrate a small victory, not the big HMS Victory, but a small HMS Vanguard related victory.  I've finally managed to complete the coppering...of the starboard side...
 

 
I was fortunate to have enough plates to finish, earlier in is this log I noted I ripped off 5 rows at the bow to do it over, glad there were enough extra in the kit to allow for mistakes like this.
 
I'm not excited about turning it over to see the bare port side I now have to do, so I procrastinated by completing the rudder.  Interestingly the brass straps provide in the kit do not appear to be designed to fit over a coppered rudder, the folding points for the two 90 degree turns to wrap around either side are 5 mm wide, the width of the wood, but not with two copper plates attached to the sides.  Doesn't matter for me anyway as I always choose to use thick black paper, easier to do and frankly for me it looks better once I glue it on and finish it with water based poly painted lightly on to harden and season it a bit.
 
Ok, off to the port side.  Until this is done I can't get back to the wood working part I like to do.  I have to admit though, as big a pain as it is to do it does look pretty nice on the ship.

It's been a while since I've had an update, and this isn't much of one except to celebrate a small victory, not the big HMS Victory, but a small HMS Vanguard related victory.  I've finally managed to complete the coppering...of the starboard side...
 

 
I was fortunate to have enough plates to finish, earlier in is this log I noted I ripped off 5 rows at the bow to do it over, glad there were enough extra in the kit to allow for mistakes like this.
 
I'm not excited about turning it over to see the bare port side I now have to do, so I procrastinated by completing the rudder.  Interestingly the brass straps provide in the kit do not appear to be designed to fit over a coppered rudder, the folding points for the two 90 degree turns to wrap around either side are 5 mm wide, the width of the wood, but not with two copper plates attached to the sides.  Doesn't matter for me anyway as I always choose to use thick black paper, easier to do and frankly for me it looks better once I glue it on and finish it with water based poly painted lightly on to harden and season it a bit.
 
Ok, off to the port side.  Until this is done I can't get back to the wood working part I like to do.  I have to admit though, as big a pain as it is to do it does look pretty nice on the ship.

It's been a while since I've had an update, and this isn't much of one except to celebrate a small victory, not the big HMS Victory, but a small HMS Vanguard related victory.  I've finally managed to complete the coppering...of the starboard side...
 

 
I was fortunate to have enough plates to finish, earlier in is this log I noted I ripped off 5 rows at the bow to do it over, glad there were enough extra in the kit to allow for mistakes like this.
 
I'm not excited about turning it over to see the bare port side I now have to do, so I procrastinated by completing the rudder.  Interestingly the brass straps provide in the kit do not appear to be designed to fit over a coppered rudder, the folding points for the two 90 degree turns to wrap around either side are 5 mm wide, the width of the wood, but not with two copper plates attached to the sides.  Doesn't matter for me anyway as I always choose to use thick black paper, easier to do and frankly for me it looks better once I glue it on and finish it with water based poly painted lightly on to harden and season it a bit.
 
Ok, off to the port side.  Until this is done I can't get back to the wood working part I like to do.  I have to admit though, as big a pain as it is to do it does look pretty nice on the ship.

It's been a while since I've had an update, and this isn't much of one except to celebrate a small victory, not the big HMS Victory, but a small HMS Vanguard related victory.  I've finally managed to complete the coppering...of the starboard side...
 

 
I was fortunate to have enough plates to finish, earlier in is this log I noted I ripped off 5 rows at the bow to do it over, glad there were enough extra in the kit to allow for mistakes like this.
 
I'm not excited about turning it over to see the bare port side I now have to do, so I procrastinated by completing the rudder.  Interestingly the brass straps provide in the kit do not appear to be designed to fit over a coppered rudder, the folding points for the two 90 degree turns to wrap around either side are 5 mm wide, the width of the wood, but not with two copper plates attached to the sides.  Doesn't matter for me anyway as I always choose to use thick black paper, easier to do and frankly for me it looks better once I glue it on and finish it with water based poly painted lightly on to harden and season it a bit.
 
Ok, off to the port side.  Until this is done I can't get back to the wood working part I like to do.  I have to admit though, as big a pain as it is to do it does look pretty nice on the ship.

It's been a while since I've had an update, and this isn't much of one except to celebrate a small victory, not the big HMS Victory, but a small HMS Vanguard related victory.  I've finally managed to complete the coppering...of the starboard side...
 

 
I was fortunate to have enough plates to finish, earlier in is this log I noted I ripped off 5 rows at the bow to do it over, glad there were enough extra in the kit to allow for mistakes like this.
 
I'm not excited about turning it over to see the bare port side I now have to do, so I procrastinated by completing the rudder.  Interestingly the brass straps provide in the kit do not appear to be designed to fit over a coppered rudder, the folding points for the two 90 degree turns to wrap around either side are 5 mm wide, the width of the wood, but not with two copper plates attached to the sides.  Doesn't matter for me anyway as I always choose to use thick black paper, easier to do and frankly for me it looks better once I glue it on and finish it with water based poly painted lightly on to harden and season it a bit.
 
Ok, off to the port side.  Until this is done I can't get back to the wood working part I like to do.  I have to admit though, as big a pain as it is to do it does look pretty nice on the ship.

Any thoughts on copper plates vs copper tape on hulls?  I'm finding copper plating my HMS Vanguard going very slowly and not especially exciting.  While I'm sure everyone would say the plates are more accurate and show better, I'm considering plating one side and taping the other.  It will be displayed in such a way only one side can be seen, so that's not an issue. 
 
Part of my question is how well the tape conforms to the curves and bends of the hull (without kinking), how well it adheres, and how easy and fast it goes on compared the the tedious work of the individaul plates? Does using a ponce wheel come help (the Vanguard plates are only  embossed, not actually engraved)?
 
I realize this is copping out to a large degree, but its not a part of the process I enjoy, I want to make it back to the wood and decks sometime before I get old

Build update:
 
Made turntable (bracket $4.50 from HomeDepot).  Solved my rigging problem for turning model as I rig.  Bracket is attached to plywood board, and top is attached to a 2x4 where ship base is attached.  The bracket corners have holes which after drilling some holes in the plywood allows me to use a wood pin for a stop.  
 
Purchased Chucks blocks and rigging for the larger lines.  Plans calls out 3mm blocks for buntlines and such.  I wasn't satisfied with the size (pix attached showing these on yard ), so I reordered larger 4mm blocks to replace these.  I'm using the "Masting and Rigging spreadsheet" found in the articles section on this site which I believe was setup using "Lee's" book.  This also confirmed these blocks should be larger by the size of rigging line to be used.  I also ordered triple blocks for the jeer falls where the plan shows to use double blocks.  I wish I would have waited before ordering blocks until I got to this phase of the build.  Building without the kit I had this luxury, but purchased all the blocks I thought I needed with all the other material before the start.  Wish Chucks were available then.
 
Started serving lines.  Purchased Alexey's. serving machine. Serving has been quite a learning process.  Each type of situation has been a new source of frustration, but I think I'm getting use to what works and what doesn't. Making the eyes and determining the length of the particular piece are the frustrating areas. Can't tell you how many attempts it took to come up with a satisfactory result for a eye.  Although I'm still new to this and I'm sure additional frustrations will occur.  I'm using Gutermann dark brown  2960 for the serving which matches up good with Chucks brown line.  For seizings I'm using coats 80wt line and staining with General Finishers Expresso Acrylic.  I used Minwax Jacobean on my other models, but switched for an easier cleanup product.  I would have liked to use Uni-thread fly line, but their dark brown I purchased didn't match well with Chuck's line.  Staining this line didn't work, that's why I went with Cotona Madeira which is cotton.  It is less strong, so care must be taken when tightening seizings.
 
Also in picture 5 shows yard sling which I think the thimble I choose is too small 3mm.  Didn't have larger, so when I was going to order a larger size from Model Expo saw a not saying "you can make a larger thimble from a deadeye by routing out the center".  I had 3.5 mm deadeye which I made thimbles from.  The new pieces aren't shown.
 
In the attached pictures all examples are served with the exception with the lifts which also use non-Chuck blocks (7mm Amati sister blocks). 
 
Picture 1 at top 
Picture 2 closeup of turntable and stop pin
Picture 3 closeup showing smaller 3mm blocks (look too small to me)
Picture 4 closeup of served jeer blocks
Picture 5 shows main/fore pendents, two served blocks need to redone, lift blocks for mast cap, sling yard.
Picture 6 redone block under top not completed (original made with beige line)
 
 
Thats all for now.
 
Happy modeling,
Len

I see there is a pinned posting from David Antscherl at the top of this forum.  I'm not him, he's the expert. I have and love his books on building the Swan.  Therefore I post this with some trepidation.  
 
My thoughts on 2nd planking:  Spiling, or tapering, to fit a flat strip of wood on a surface that curves both front to back and top bottom is no small feat.  It defies the grain and natural tendency of the wood and is one of the more fascinating, though perhaps tedious, aspects of shipbuilding.  There are whole books written on this topic by modelers far more expert than me using precise methods that are far more exacting than what I do.  Nonetheless, I thought I’d share my process.  I did this for the lost log of the Pegasus and got some nice responses, so here it is again.  It's the result of the practice I've gained from completing 14 hull plankings (ok, 7 models twice planked:-)
 
First and foremost for the 2nd planking to look work you have to have had a good first planking, more than structure and shape it is the surface for the 2nd planking.  If it’s wrong you aren’t going to make up for it with the 2nd planking.  The first planking doesn’t need to look pretty, but it has to be shaped and sanded to be the hull you want the 2nd planking to become. 
 

 
The photo shows my pretty simple set of tools used for planking.
 
For a strip of planking to reach from the bow to the stern, the bow portion (and in some cases the stern) has to be splined or tapered.  In order to have the same number of strips at the wider waist as you have at the narrower bow.  The key is how to make the math work and how to achieve the double twist to accommodate both curves, deck to keel, bow to waist to stern.  I don’t do scarfing or lay battens, I’m too lazy for the first and don’t find a need for the second.
 
With most ships as with the Vanguard the planks closest to the deck will fit full width, the key is not to take too much advantage of this, you pay for it later by not being able to get the lower planks to work out right. I first set the planks for the main wale as full width (actually the base, the wale is achieved by doubling up on those planks after sanding the fully planked hull), below that I tapered, above it I went full width.  I chose to go up from the wale first and then down, but either way works.  I cut and overlap lengths above the wale to show the butt joints similar to the decking, but choose to go the full length of the ship below the wale, just my choice.
 
The second thing I do is the garboard, a full width plank along the keel.  I usually cheat a bit and put a second plank here, tapering the bow side only slightly.  The garboard is historically accurate, but in the case of modeling ensures you have a good base and a consistent point to measure from for tapering the planks below the wale
 

 
The color differences are due to variation in the planks provided with the kit, since I'm painting the hull it's just the one I picked up next.
 
Measure what?  I use a piece of paper and measure the distance from the bottom of the wale to the top of the garboard at the waist and divide by 5.  Since I’m using 5mm wide planks I then know me how many planks I’ll need to cover the ship.  So if the measurement is 100mm, then I need twenty 5mm planks to cover the waist.
 
I do that same measurement at the bow and divide that number by the number of planks above.  If the length was 60mm I know the plank width at the bow has to be 3 mm to get those same 20 planks to fit to the stem of the bow. 
 
Pretty simple.  All I have to do is use my Exacto knife with a really sharp blade (I change blades a lot) and cut the plank from 5 to 3 mm wide.  Here’s the trick though, where to start the cut to begin the taper.  I’m sure there are much more methodical and mathematical ways to do this, but I just let the plank tell me.  I cut the angle required at stem, bevel it, then matching the end of the plank to the bow, lay the plank along the length of the one above it.  It fits snug along the waist and for most of the length of the ship, where it crosses the plank above as it closes in on the bow stem is where I mark with a pencil to start the taper.  I mark a 3 mm width at the stem end, lay my heavy steel rule across the two marks I’ve now made, and cut the taper. 
 
If the taper start point is too close to the stem, it will be very hard to get the plank to lay flat, if it is two far from the stem a S-curve will begin to develop with the distance between the last laid plank not being proportionately equal at the waist and bow.  If this happens I can adjust by where I cut the next plank or if I see it happening soon enough, toss that plank and cut a new one.  As long as I carefully locate my marks it doesn’t happen, its just when I get rushed or bored.  I re-take the measurements every 5 planks or so to make sure I’m still on target, it doesn’t vary much but its worth checking to avoid very narrow stem plank widths as you reach the garboard.
 

 
Measuring in this way gives me a good looking bow, doesn’t require battens, is simple enough to do, and is made possible by using cyano, not PVA glue.  The cyano can be a bit messy, I may be a little over generous with its use, but this comes off easily with sanding and allows the process to move along more quickly.  I’d be more careful with the cyano to avoid staining if I was leaving the hull natural (as I did using cherry wood with the Pegasus) but since I’m painting, smooth is all that’s required.
 
This same process applies to the stern for some but generally not the majority of planks. Here is more important to let the plank follow its natural flow.  This will create triangular gaps that are filled with stealers.  Simply cut triangles cut to fit the length and width of those gaps unless you want to go all  out and scarp them in.  Again, I’m painting and scarping the hull, this would be wasted effort for me (unless you enjoy knowing and doing it then by all means).
 

 
I do all this knowing that no matter how careful I am, I have always had to fill in some area at the waist with partial and oddly cut planks that don’t reach stem to stern.  This fill is on the bottom and won’t be seen once its on the stand so I don’t worry about it, the perfectionist in me adjusts and accepts.
 
So that’s my two cents.  I’m sure as always there are better, more precise, and more expert ways to plank and several of those are included in this forum.  But this way works for me and the speed and pace I chose to work.  For what its worth I share it with you.