Major

Hamilton, maybe you could just rename thread and ask nicely moderators to move it to build log section? There still is some bits left to do I guess .

I'm sure nobody would mind if you post a picture of your progress so far .

All the best.
Tom

Not sure if I'd use PVA to stick anything to glass...

Since I did not face the problem myself, can't speak from own experience, but I have seen that guy behind Tigersbay blog tested few glues during his SiB builds and was happy with the effect slow setting CA gave him.

http://s.kahn.lyshanpress.com/blog/blog1.php

I think I have seen it mentioned in Golden Yacht build, but have a look yourself .

And since you didn't start your log for Hannah, how about posting some pics here, just so we can see how you get on? I;d love to see your progress .

Regards
Tom

OK - as promised, here are the results. Tom - I did have fun making this one.....up to a point. Last night and today I found myself promising I would never build another SiB....Building the hull was a lot of fun and very rewarding, but the rigging (which on a larger scale model I usually find very enjoyable) was trying to say the least. Also - I think if I were to do it again (a big if) I would make sure that the bottle I used was much thinner and clearer than the one Amati provided (though in all other respects, Amati's kit was very nicely presented - except maybe the sails, which I should probably have also replaced).
 
Anyways, after letting the epoxy cure overnight, I couldn't resist having a go at a mast raising after breakfast and a coffee (instead of a beer, which was also delayed tonight in favour of wine). I gently pulled on the out lines and it seemed that something was stuck....the main mast wanted to come up but the fore mast was being very stubborn. I realized that the rigging must have been tangled up on the mast somehow (or on one of the yards) but because the glass is so thick I couldn't clearly see what was happening....here's a shot of what I was looking at....
 

 
It turned out that the fore course yard had managed to get on the wrong side of one of the outlines. I used the same tool I had used to put the hull in the bottle to work the yard free - it was a bit of a tricky business, but eventually the yard went round the right way....
 
Then things got a bit worse. I pulled on the out lines further but things were still sticky.....Something was caught that I couldn't see at all. Then I noticed that the foremast itself was bent (likely from my trying to pull the mast up with the out line - I didn't think I was hauling on it that hard!). I couldn't imagine how I was going to straighten it and then also figure out where the snag was.....as I was mulling all this over, I decided to try to use two of the tools together to gently correct the mast. And then disaster struck - the outline that hauls up the main mast snapped off at the hole in the bow sprit where it threads through....I guess it had seen too much action and had had enough.....That ended up being the end of all my correction work. I very quickly dabbed some CA on the remaining out line, set the sails as well as I could without the whole thing collapsing and called it done......Here are the results. Again - I'm proud of my efforts, though not of the results.....
 

 

 

 
In closing, there are a few things to note
 
1. Building SiB's is hard. Having done this once, I have incredible respect for those who focus on this field of model building. In a year or two a might think otherwise, but for now, I think I would rather watch and enjoy the efforts of others than try to emulate them! Having spent a night with America I can honestly say I'm happy to be back working at a scale more suited to my temperament and abilities!
 
2. I think I can see a few rookie mistakes in my own process. First and foremost is being impatient to see it in the bottle. When folding the model down to put it in the bottle, I did not really pay much mind to where things were lying. Then, when it was compressed going in the mouth of the bottle and I was (however gently) working it through, things got muddled up. The first time I had it in the bottle, things came up fine - and if it had stuck on the stand that time and the main sail hadn't come off it would have worked out pretty nice. The second time, I think I just wanted to finish - never a good place to be at any stage of any kind of modelling. Another issue was not trusting some of my instincts to begin with - specifically an early concern I had about visibility and the Amati-supplied bottle. There are enough antique shops in town here that I probably could have found something better, but I didn't bother.....I think getting something with a slightly wider mouth and slightly thinner glass would have helped to produce a better result....
 
3. As with all models I've made, I've learned something. Perhaps I won't build another SiB, perhaps I will. But I am glad I built one - I think everyone should try it, if only to learn what your limits are!!
 
Thanks for comments and likes as usual and bye for now
hamilton
 

Hold on mate, we have something wrong here.

As long as it was fun build/you've learnt something new/enjoyed it - don't be (almost) embarrassed! I have seen quite a few logs that were unfinished, modellers complained that kit is impossible to build thanks to brass parts, too big guns and few other bits. You've done it, that's all that matters. If you don't like this one, you just might be too hard on yourself. I know that well - I always complain that I could have done something much better, but we always learn .

Your input to my log was very valuable and helped a lot too!

I will have to catch up on my Hannah - not much left to do, but somehow can't get to it. Wanted to finish her by this weekend, but spend time at seaside and with family, so didn't even touch the box. Oh well, maybe next weekend .

Hold on mate, we have something wrong here.

As long as it was fun build/you've learnt something new/enjoyed it - don't be (almost) embarrassed! I have seen quite a few logs that were unfinished, modellers complained that kit is impossible to build thanks to brass parts, too big guns and few other bits. You've done it, that's all that matters. If you don't like this one, you just might be too hard on yourself. I know that well - I always complain that I could have done something much better, but we always learn .

Your input to my log was very valuable and helped a lot too!

I will have to catch up on my Hannah - not much left to do, but somehow can't get to it. Wanted to finish her by this weekend, but spend time at seaside and with family, so didn't even touch the box. Oh well, maybe next weekend .

Neither would I. I actually mis-read the question, thought he meant what glue to use to fix the boat to the stand.
 
Epoxy is definitely the way to go for fixing the stand to the glass .
 
 
Here is fine Hamilton. There isn't really another forum that would suit any better.
 
  Danny

Thanks for the encouraging words Tom! I'll admit I was being a bit dramatic....a habit. I guess I've been used to each build being closer to the vision I have in my head than the last one that when I hit a hiccup like this it feels like backsliding.....I'm still happy with it all things considered...pics later - and good luck on yours - I'll be following closely
hamilton

Hold on mate, we have something wrong here.

As long as it was fun build/you've learnt something new/enjoyed it - don't be (almost) embarrassed! I have seen quite a few logs that were unfinished, modellers complained that kit is impossible to build thanks to brass parts, too big guns and few other bits. You've done it, that's all that matters. If you don't like this one, you just might be too hard on yourself. I know that well - I always complain that I could have done something much better, but we always learn .

Your input to my log was very valuable and helped a lot too!

I will have to catch up on my Hannah - not much left to do, but somehow can't get to it. Wanted to finish her by this weekend, but spend time at seaside and with family, so didn't even touch the box. Oh well, maybe next weekend .

Hold on mate, we have something wrong here.

As long as it was fun build/you've learnt something new/enjoyed it - don't be (almost) embarrassed! I have seen quite a few logs that were unfinished, modellers complained that kit is impossible to build thanks to brass parts, too big guns and few other bits. You've done it, that's all that matters. If you don't like this one, you just might be too hard on yourself. I know that well - I always complain that I could have done something much better, but we always learn .

Your input to my log was very valuable and helped a lot too!

I will have to catch up on my Hannah - not much left to do, but somehow can't get to it. Wanted to finish her by this weekend, but spend time at seaside and with family, so didn't even touch the box. Oh well, maybe next weekend .

So I've now put Hannah in the bottle.....I'm waiting until after dinner (and possibly a beer) tomorrow before risking the mast raising....As I mentioned before, I made a "V" stand to replace the pins and while this seemed like a good idea (easier to mount?) in practice I kind of wish I'd stayed with the pins....there was a lot of uncertainty as to whether the hull was going to stay on the "V" stand, especially since my pre-emptive attempt to mount the hull last time, which resulted in quite a bit of 5-minute epoxy curing on the stand....But let me begin from the beginning....
 
I think I mentioned before that when I put the Hannah in the bottle last time, the boom and main gaff came off, and the thread that makes up the fore course yard and topsail yard braces and fixes the fore topsail to the yards also snapped....I repaired these parts of the vessel, using stronger upholstery thread to attach the boom and gaff and reinforcing the rigging where the topsail attaches to the yards. Here's a shot of where I started tonight, followed by a shot of the topsail repositioned on the yards....not the prettiest work I've ever done....
 

 

 
I then did a trial run to see if it would still go in nicely - a tight squeeze, but not too bad.....
 

 
My source build log talked about attaching the boat hook tool with double sided tape, but there were no photos provided to show how he did it.....here's my inference....also, I don't think you need double-sided tape - I think I could probably have used my Tamiya masking tape and it would have worked fine.....
 

 
I can hear you thinking how precarious it looks....at it was!! Getting it into the bottle was a struggle. I had to keep my hands incredibly steady and kind of cajole the hull up onto the "v" stand, on which I had applied a liberal amount of 5-minute epoxy using a chamfered piece of scrap wood glued to a bamboo skewer. Then it was a nerve-wracking process of keeping entirely still to prevent the hull from slipping around (which would not have happened with the pin stand) on the stand as the glue set.....even if I could move to see the thing from different angles, the bottle really prevents a clear view of its interior except from the front and the top....I really wanted to get a forward or stern view to make sure all was well. And because I was seated high while doing this, I couldn't crouch down to confirm whether the hull was connecting with the stand at all three lifts I had made....All I could do was concentrate hard on not moving, while angling the tool in such a way as to press the hull down as much as possible while not having it collapse or slide off.....A very tense series of minutes....
 
In the end, though, it stuck....not only that, but the shifting and balancing had loosened the tape, so I was able to easily extract the positioning tool. Now the Hannah is in the bottle, the outlines are draped out of the mouth, and tomorrow, we'll see what happens when I pull on them.....There's still a 50/50 chance it's not going to work....but I guess that's always the case, so it's hardly worth mentioning....here's where it stands as of now.
 

 
hamilton

Kits look nice indeed, but there is one thing that just doesn't add up.

There is one small boat for 5 Euros. But to my surprise, postage is 30? Can't believe that sending envelope to UK with it would cost that much...

Dan, thanks for clarification!

By no means I was moaning etc, it just seemed a bit odd, but now is perfectly clear. I will hone my modelling skills a little bit and will get most probably Columbus' trio from you. They just look amazing.

Regards
Tom

I hate when hobby forces new addictions.... but I don't think I have any choice .

Hello all,

Special offer to the anniversary of discovery of America by Christopher Columbus. Buy Christopher Columbus'  ships combo for only 209.3EUR This special offer is valid only to the October 12 2015. Please visit our special offers webpage:

http://www.dusekship.../special-offers

Best regards
Daniel Dusek

Thanks Ken,
No problem Tom but it is interesting that you mentioned the Columbus ships, because I put them into special offers just before few minutes
 
Daniel

Dan, thanks for clarification!

By no means I was moaning etc, it just seemed a bit odd, but now is perfectly clear. I will hone my modelling skills a little bit and will get most probably Columbus' trio from you. They just look amazing.

Regards
Tom

I can't say I've ever heard of them.  Found a website with it but it's out of stock.  Seems like that happens a lot with ship in bottle kits.  It's hard to find any of the Wood Krafters kits that aren't pirate ships.  It's an intimidating hobby.  I don't think the kits sell very well.    
 
Honestly though knowing what I know now I wouldn't do more than one kit.  It's good for getting your feet in the water but scratch building sib's is the way to go.  Get a book like Don Hubbards Ships in Bottles and scratch build a couple plans he has in there.  It's ok if it looks more on the folk art side when you start out.  Once you do a few of those you can build anything you want for way less money than kit's will cost you.  My best ship so far the Mercury I built for less than $10.    

I hate when hobby forces new addictions.... but I don't think I have any choice .

Keep working on it mate, I love to see your progress. Did I tell you before you do amazing job?

I don't know anyone who has built one, but unlike the Amati ship in bottle kits, I think you have to provide your own bottle. Better get started drinking early!
 
Clare

I've been doing some research and interviewing some older ship in bottle builders and thought I'd open this discussion up on this forum.  I'm gathering information on how some of the first ships in bottle were built in hopes of using the same materials tools and techniques and documenting the experience through a build log and my blog.  It seems to me a lot of this information is fading in time or at the very least hard to find.  I'd like to contribute another source to make it that much easier to find and keep it alive.  
 
Here's what I have so far.  
 
Wood used was mainly pine.  While not used for actual ships it had a lot of other purposes and was widely available.  Hulls were often thinner then what would be scale.  Segmented hulls were not often if ever done in older ship in bottles.  I have heard of old ships in bottles being made from bone as well.    
 
Masts and yards were made from either splintered wood or match sticks.  Both would have likely been sanded down with dry sharkskin.  
 
Glue was made from different fish parts boiled down.  There's youtube videos on this I'd have to dig around for them again though.  
 
Thin thread may have been hard to find but wax from candles could have been used to strengthen pieces enough to use.  Don Hubbard had a thought that Baleen from whales could have been used for thread but there's no way to know for sure.  
 
Sails were not common among old ship in bottles because they were harder to do.  Usually the ship was just shown with the bare yards.  When it was done they used paper or some times wood shavings.    
 
Sea is tricky and I think it depends on the time period.  Michael Bardet suggested that seas were made of wood in old ship in bottles.  I've seen some of the old ships he restores, some as old as 1895, and have seen how that was done.  His work is incredible I highly suggest seeing it.   http://michel.bardet.pagesperso-orange.fr/indexa.htm
 
Other methods for sea was some kind of putty with pigment in it.  Don Hubbard theorizes that green copper oxide could have been used as well.   
 
As far as bottles I found an interesting idea from an article by Louis Norton.  He says that most alcohol would have been transported in wood barrels on sailing ships so the bottles used were more likely medicine or spice bottles.  I wouldn't doubt that a sailor would keep a clear liquor bottle he picked up in port though.  Most of the old bottles I've seen have mostly been wine bottles.      
 
I've looked around a little bit in regards to tools.  Sailors definitely had knives and this would have been a primary tool. Other things I found were surgical scissors and Sail Awls.  Tweezers or forceps could have been carved out of wood.  I'm not sure yet on drills.  Don Hubbard uses a technique where you sand down a needle and use it as a drill. This may have been the tool used.  Shark skin for sand paper.   
 
From what I can tell sailors were quiet resourceful.  Just about anything and everything could have been used.  I'm sure there's ideas I haven't thought of or possibly books I don't know about.  If you have any ideas please post them.  
        
 
 

Keep working on it mate, I love to see your progress. Did I tell you before you do amazing job?

Keep working on it mate, I love to see your progress. Did I tell you before you do amazing job?

If they're anything like the rest of the Woody Joe line, you can expect the kit materials to be of good quality and the instructions to be in Japanese, but profusely illustrated.