uss frolick

The full title is "A Voice From the Main Deck: Being a record of the Thirty Years Adventures of Samuel Leech". This little book is a gem. It has been in reprint almost continuously since its initial publication in 1843, and is currently part of Naval Institute Press's "The Classics of Naval Literature" Series.  It runs about 211 pages.
 
Leech was a colorful English fellow with an eye for detail, and he had the good fortune (for us) to be present at one of the bloodiest battles of the War of 1812: the fight between the Frigates United States and the Macedonian. He had joined the latter ship in 1810. If you've read anything about this battle, then you would have read excerpts from this first hand narrative. Leech's description of the battle alone are worth the price of the book. "My station was at the fifth gun on the main deck", he writes, "it was my duty to supply my gun with powder." Here is a typical account of the battle:
 
"I was eyewitness to a sight equally revolting. A man named Aldrich had one of his hand cut off by a shot, and almost at the same moment, he received another shot, which tore open his bowels in a terrible manner, as he fell, two or three men caught him in their arms, and as he could not live, tossed him overboard."
 
Leech, survived the battle undamaged, and he sailed back to the United States as a prisoner of war. While the Macedonian was repairing in Rhode Island, Leech even started a profitable side tourist business, showing the local citizens shot for shot how the great battle played out.
 
Leech eventually joined up with the US Navy, and landed a berth on board the 16-gun Sloop of War USS Syren in Boston. Leech writes about the Syren's final, ill-fated cruise in 1814, and as he was captured with her by the 74-gun HMS Medway, it must have been a frightening experience for a former British sailor. His account of Syren's cruise is very interesting, and it runs from pages 117 to 133. If you are one of the many modelers here who is building, or has built,  the Model Shipways Syren Kit, then you will definitely want to read this book, and see the cruise from Leech's eyes.
 
This is the only known narrative of the Syren's last cruise, unless you have the official letters microfilm series from the national archives, then you could read the transcripts of the court of enquiry for her loss. The Siren was one of four unlucky sloops of war that sailed from greater Boston in 1814; the others being the Rattlesnake and Frolick - both captured, and the Wasp II which vanished at sea after winning unparalleled glory.  The Siren's Captain Parker died of an illness at sea not long after leaving Boston - not an inauspicious start.
 
In 1812, the Syren had run around in the Balize River and her crew had to toss all her guns overboard, into deep mud, to get free. But they were unable to recover them, accept two. I remember coming across a letter in the microfilm stacks while researching the Wasp II stating that there were not enough replacement carronades for the Siren in Boston in 1814, and so she was reportedly supposed  to put to sea with eight long nine-pounders, six 24-pounder carronades and two huge 42-pounder carronades. I never did find out if she sailed with that mixed battery.
 
This is one of the better examples of the genre, and no War of 812 library would be complete without it.

The full title is "A Voice From the Main Deck: Being a record of the Thirty Years Adventures of Samuel Leech". This little book is a gem. It has been in reprint almost continuously since its initial publication in 1843, and is currently part of Naval Institute Press's "The Classics of Naval Literature" Series.  It runs about 211 pages.
 
Leech was a colorful English fellow with an eye for detail, and he had the good fortune (for us) to be present at one of the bloodiest battles of the War of 1812: the fight between the Frigates United States and the Macedonian. He had joined the latter ship in 1810. If you've read anything about this battle, then you would have read excerpts from this first hand narrative. Leech's description of the battle alone are worth the price of the book. "My station was at the fifth gun on the main deck", he writes, "it was my duty to supply my gun with powder." Here is a typical account of the battle:
 
"I was eyewitness to a sight equally revolting. A man named Aldrich had one of his hand cut off by a shot, and almost at the same moment, he received another shot, which tore open his bowels in a terrible manner, as he fell, two or three men caught him in their arms, and as he could not live, tossed him overboard."
 
Leech, survived the battle undamaged, and he sailed back to the United States as a prisoner of war. While the Macedonian was repairing in Rhode Island, Leech even started a profitable side tourist business, showing the local citizens shot for shot how the great battle played out.
 
Leech eventually joined up with the US Navy, and landed a berth on board the 16-gun Sloop of War USS Syren in Boston. Leech writes about the Syren's final, ill-fated cruise in 1814, and as he was captured with her by the 74-gun HMS Medway, it must have been a frightening experience for a former British sailor. His account of Syren's cruise is very interesting, and it runs from pages 117 to 133. If you are one of the many modelers here who is building, or has built,  the Model Shipways Syren Kit, then you will definitely want to read this book, and see the cruise from Leech's eyes.
 
This is the only known narrative of the Syren's last cruise, unless you have the official letters microfilm series from the national archives, then you could read the transcripts of the court of enquiry for her loss. The Siren was one of four unlucky sloops of war that sailed from greater Boston in 1814; the others being the Rattlesnake and Frolick - both captured, and the Wasp II which vanished at sea after winning unparalleled glory.  The Siren's Captain Parker died of an illness at sea not long after leaving Boston - not an inauspicious start.
 
In 1812, the Syren had run around in the Balize River and her crew had to toss all her guns overboard, into deep mud, to get free. But they were unable to recover them, accept two. I remember coming across a letter in the microfilm stacks while researching the Wasp II stating that there were not enough replacement carronades for the Siren in Boston in 1814, and so she was reportedly supposed  to put to sea with eight long nine-pounders, six 24-pounder carronades and two huge 42-pounder carronades. I never did find out if she sailed with that mixed battery.
 
This is one of the better examples of the genre, and no War of 812 library would be complete without it.

OK, y'all outed me.
 
I just want to express my appreciation for those of you here who bought a copy. and especially to those who enjoyed it. This was a eight year labor of love.  It took me that long to piece together the life of Captain Blakeley, as the few surviving papers were scattered and it was all done pre-internet. The story of the life of Johnston Blakeley read to me like a Greek tragedy: A young, obscure naval officer with little influence, he being a recent orphan, climbs his way up the latter, performing thankless, but necessary service to his country's navy. He finally receives the acknowledgement and glory that he sought his whole life for - but at a terrible price. Blakeley's life reads in many ways like a bad novel. For example:
 
Blakeley's planned June, 1812 battle in the Balize Rive between the Brig Enterprize, 16 guns, mostly 18-pounders, and the quarter-decked ship-rigged Corvette HMS Brazen, 28 guns, mostly 32-pounders, only to be aborted last minute by the great Hurricane of that year that destroyed New Orleans.
 
The Thomas Paine inspired university riots, at the then religious UNC, Chapel Hill, that got Student-President Blakeley tossed out of college and sent into the navy - only to have Paine's illegitimate son come aboard the Wasp, 14 years later, as a midshipman. Blakeley then puts troublesome Thomas Paine Bonneville in a prize, to get rid of him, alongside prize-master Midshipman David Geissinger, the future highest ranking pre-civil war naval officer. They would be the Wasp's only two surviving officers
 
The Wasp nearly meeting HMS Hibernia, 110 guns, in the English Channel in 1814, under the command of Admiral Sir Sydney Smith. Blakeley served under Smith's illegitimate son, Lieutenant Charles Grandison of the Hornet in 1806.
 
And of course, Blakeley's triumph over two comparatively rated British enemy sloops of war, the Reindeer and the Avon, while out on the same cruise, a feat not equalled in the American sailing navy.
 
Then there is the mystery of the Wasp's disappearance at sea, some time after October, 1814. It was thrilling to piece together all the known accounts and theories about her fate from contemporary letters, logbooks, and newspapers. Did she wreck on the African shore with her survivors sold into slavery? Was she chased by the Frigates Hyperion, or Horatio, or the Aquilon? Maybe. Did she chase two small English sloops of war off Tenerife? Probably. According to the Admiralty, some one who looked like her did. Did she put into Mogadore, Morocco? Did she wreck off Charleston, SC in November, 1814, after a chase with the Frigate Lacedemonian, as the papers reported?
 
Blakeley's life was an amazing story, and I am grateful that no one had written his biography prior to my book.
 
Lest you think that I am just trying to increase sales by writing this, be advised that "Blakeley and the Wasp" sold out of Naval Institute Press many years ago. But I do encourage you to pick up a used copy ...  

OK, y'all outed me.
 
I just want to express my appreciation for those of you here who bought a copy. and especially to those who enjoyed it. This was a eight year labor of love.  It took me that long to piece together the life of Captain Blakeley, as the few surviving papers were scattered and it was all done pre-internet. The story of the life of Johnston Blakeley read to me like a Greek tragedy: A young, obscure naval officer with little influence, he being a recent orphan, climbs his way up the latter, performing thankless, but necessary service to his country's navy. He finally receives the acknowledgement and glory that he sought his whole life for - but at a terrible price. Blakeley's life reads in many ways like a bad novel. For example:
 
Blakeley's planned June, 1812 battle in the Balize Rive between the Brig Enterprize, 16 guns, mostly 18-pounders, and the quarter-decked ship-rigged Corvette HMS Brazen, 28 guns, mostly 32-pounders, only to be aborted last minute by the great Hurricane of that year that destroyed New Orleans.
 
The Thomas Paine inspired university riots, at the then religious UNC, Chapel Hill, that got Student-President Blakeley tossed out of college and sent into the navy - only to have Paine's illegitimate son come aboard the Wasp, 14 years later, as a midshipman. Blakeley then puts troublesome Thomas Paine Bonneville in a prize, to get rid of him, alongside prize-master Midshipman David Geissinger, the future highest ranking pre-civil war naval officer. They would be the Wasp's only two surviving officers
 
The Wasp nearly meeting HMS Hibernia, 110 guns, in the English Channel in 1814, under the command of Admiral Sir Sydney Smith. Blakeley served under Smith's illegitimate son, Lieutenant Charles Grandison of the Hornet in 1806.
 
And of course, Blakeley's triumph over two comparatively rated British enemy sloops of war, the Reindeer and the Avon, while out on the same cruise, a feat not equalled in the American sailing navy.
 
Then there is the mystery of the Wasp's disappearance at sea, some time after October, 1814. It was thrilling to piece together all the known accounts and theories about her fate from contemporary letters, logbooks, and newspapers. Did she wreck on the African shore with her survivors sold into slavery? Was she chased by the Frigates Hyperion, or Horatio, or the Aquilon? Maybe. Did she chase two small English sloops of war off Tenerife? Probably. According to the Admiralty, some one who looked like her did. Did she put into Mogadore, Morocco? Did she wreck off Charleston, SC in November, 1814, after a chase with the Frigate Lacedemonian, as the papers reported?
 
Blakeley's life was an amazing story, and I am grateful that no one had written his biography prior to my book.
 
Lest you think that I am just trying to increase sales by writing this, be advised that "Blakeley and the Wasp" sold out of Naval Institute Press many years ago. But I do encourage you to pick up a used copy ...  

Well, you got the reclusive part right ...

Well, you got the reclusive part right ...

Well, you got the reclusive part right ...

I've read many many many books about this period of US Navy history.  This is my favorite.
 
My understanding is that the author is a reclusive genius who is very smart, very handsome, and only comes out at night.  He has been known, apparently, to venture into online forums and pose as an interested modeler to test the waters to see if there is actually any intelligent life out there... My information is from Frolick, who may not be as reliable as we could hope...
 
EG

A minor milestone -- work on the gun deck is complete. I have made, installed and rigged the last four guns, added their deck ringbolts and made and installed the jeer capstan, the second of the three required capstans. I also tied the line for the main course tacks to their bulwark cleats.
 
The guns were done the same way as all the others (very glad to be done with them). The capstan was done in boxwood, with a pear cap The pawls (stops) were also made from boxwood, painted black and added to the deck.
 
Next up will be the deck framing for the gangboards (midship decking).
 
Bob

I think that Jay was getting at the difference between a new navy - no established bureaucracy - and a mature, entrenched administrative entity.  The British admiralty had a couple of centuries of experience behind them - they had struggled through the process of building their own vessels, civilian approval of the ship form, then needing to contract with civilian yards to get vessels built at the rate needed due to the long period of naval conflict they had endured. 
 
While the original 6 frigates were being designed and then constructed, the US did not even have a separate Navy - it was under the War Department and the Secretary of War.  It was not until 1798 that the Department of the Navy was established and Benjamin Stoddert became the first Secretary. 
 
The process of designing the frigates, including the Constitution, was tortuous.  Henry Knox (Secretary of War) solicited opinions from several ship builders in the Philadelphia area (including Humphreys' partner, Wharton).  Several other former ship captains and builders also contributed to the early debate.  Knox selected Humphreys to design as much for his local presence and familiarity to the Secretary as anything else. 
 
The design of the frigates took some time, as there was no established system for naval construction, and much of the background is lost to history as it occurred via face to face meetings with Knox.  What is known is that Humphreys was a mediocre draughtsman - hence the Secretary assigning Fox (capable, familiar with French and British designs and systems of shipbuilding) and Doughty (a talented draughtsman) to assist.  There were philosophical disagreements on dimensions, form and so on that left a bad taste in both the Fox and Humphreys camps (see the 20th century debate in articles published c. 1916 and 1964).
 
The frigates were, surprisingly, built.  Each shipbuilder put his own interpretation into the build - even though they all had a copy of the plan and the moulds.  Each builder was also strongly influenced by the assigned Naval Constructor (who would oversee the work of the contracted ship builder) and Naval Superintendent (who was intended to be the first Captain of his assigned frigate).  There were also other alterations to the design between the first 44-gun frigates and the last one (for example, for the President, which had construction halted for a time, Humphreys requested changes to the height of the gun deck and the position of the main mast).  The 4th 44-gun, Chesapeake, was significantly redesigned by Fox due to both his disagreement with Humphreys over the size and a lack of suitable timber. 
 
So - what we see is that, during this early formative stage for the US Navy, the lack of standardization and consistency of design resulted in 4 44-gun frigates that each was unique and different from the sister ships.  Each also performed differently under sail as a result of not just the way they were constructed, but also the masting, which Secretary of War Pickering left to the discretion of the assigned Captain and Constructor.  This after a rather lengthy debate between Humphreys and Truxton (in particular) over the size of the masts and spars.  Truxton believed the plans by Humphreys were to lofty and oversized for the ships - and had decades of sailing experience to back up his system for masting of ships. 
 
The documentary record of much (though by no means all) of the above, including Truxton's treatise on masting &c., can be found on the Papers of the War Department website at http://wardepartmentpapers.org/
 
Attached, for your leisure reading, are
(1) Truxton's publication on masting of frigates
(2) Correspondence between Secretary of War Pickering and Naval constructors concerning Truxton's recommendations
(3) transcription of (2)
(4) Mast as you wish (Pickering)
 
1794 Masts Article_Truxtun.pdf
1795_NBB19_44 Gun Frigate spars_Truxton.pdf
NBB19 Truxton Pickering.pdf
Mast as you wish.pdf
 
 
 
 

I think certain newspapers and news networks would grab that one and blare it in 72 point type.

Qoute:  but the claim that it " ... INSPIRED THE FILM MASTER AND COMMANDER" is a tad over the top
 
You have to love marketing types for that one.

All books have to sell. Usually it is of the 'Nelsons favorite ship' , 'the real hornblower' or 'Nelsons favorite leg of beef'  or alternately deliberately trying to wind up more knowledgeable readership i.e 'why america lost the war of 1812' or 'why britain lost the war of 1812', 'Waterloo the German victory' etc etc (one of those is real though I vaguely recollect one of the 1812 ones was used recently as well). 
 
You can imagine what accurate book header text would be
 
'south american huts, in detail!',  'shock news that english midshipman prefers portsmouth tarts to savana lovelies!'

"Hunting the Essex: A Journal of the Voyage of HMS Phoebe, 1813-1814, By Midshipman Allen Gardiner", Edited by John S. Reiske and Andrew Lambert.
 
OK, Frigate Essex fans, this was the one we were waiting for: a previously unpublished journal of a British Midshipman on board the Frigate Phoebe. I love contemporary journals. You can learn so much about life at sea. And this one was even advertised on the jacket, in capital letters no less, as:
 
"THE EPIC CHASE THAT INSPIRED THE FILM MASTER AND COMMANDER"!
 
Wow! Could it get any better? I placed my pre-order and patiently waited ....
 
Then it arrived ... in my small mail box with room to spare. The letter carrier could have easily slipped it under the door, really. Four inches by six inches and 152 pages? The introduction takes up the first thirty pages, and the addendum and footnotes consumes the last thirty-three ... Not looking good. Still there could be gold one those 89 pages remaining ...
 
Andrew Lambert writes on page 22:
 
" ... Indeed, the text is dominated by events on land. Only rarely does he discuss the sea."
 
But what about "THE EPIC CHASE THAT ..."
 
Yep. What we have here is a travel-log of far away sea ports - nineteenth century style. Comments on native dwellings mostly, with unfavorable descriptions of the people, etc., interspersed with poetry and religious philosophy. Gardiner mostly confines his journal to such affairs as "A short sketch of Peruvian poverty". He notes on page 72:
 
"Callao, the port city of Lima, is a small, miserable, ill built, town, little calculated to give the stranger any idea of the opulence and supposed grandeur of that city. The houses were low, few of them exceeding the ground floor, and are in general built of mud, which they use instead of plaister. The roofs are flat and covered with mats ..."
 
on page 76:
 
"The palace is a shabby building building without ornament and has more of the appearance of a warehouse than the residence of a Viceroy."
 
OK. I get it, Gardiner. You don't like foreign architecture ... surely even you must admire the fair Spanish ladies! I went to Colombia and Peru two years ago, and the eyes nearly popped from my head . Nope. Page 83.
 
"All the first families of Lima were here collected, and afforded a grand display of Spanish beauty, of which I am sad to say I was much disappointed, there were some pretty, but very few handsome women, and they wanted much of that easy air, and grace, which so characterizes our country women."
 
Let's move on ... the Essex, remember?  "THE EPIC CHASE ..."  Professor Lambert promised us on page 28:
 
"Allen Frances Gardiner's journal provides a useful British perspective on the Pacific campaign of 1813-1814 and the Battle of Valpariaso."
 
Finally ,on page 105, Gardiner tells us about the battle:
 
"We closed them about 20 minutes after 4, and after a severe action of about two hours, in which they certainly did honor to their flag, and fought till it would have been impossible to have retained their ship any longer, they gave up the contest and struck to HM Ship."
 
Yep. That's it. That's all he writes about the fight. Elvis has left the building. Goodnight. "THE EPIC ..." ?
 
To be fair, he does chat a bit about the aftermath. He confirms Porter's claims to have suffered very heavy losses. And he does make the rather startling and doubtful assertion that the Cherub fired only one broadside before retiring. But that's about it.
 
The editors must have thought this would be a great disappointment to the reader, so, in order to spice it up, they included a letter in the addendum, written by another midshipman, one Mr. Samuel Thornton, Jr., also of the Phoebe. It describes at some length, the events of the battle. But Thornton says little that is new. Snippets of this letter were published previously in James Henderson's "The Frigates" as having been written by an "un-named midshipman". A second, shorter letter, describing the battle but written by one of Phoebe's marines, it is best ignored.
 
All in all, it is a good historical book. But anyone looking for detailed descriptions of either ship, or of life at sea for the average tar, is advised to pass. I'm glad I bought it, but the claim that it " ... INSPIRED THE FILM MASTER AND COMMANDER" is a tad over the top. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

"Hunting the Essex: A Journal of the Voyage of HMS Phoebe, 1813-1814, By Midshipman Allen Gardiner", Edited by John S. Reiske and Andrew Lambert.
 
OK, Frigate Essex fans, this was the one we were waiting for: a previously unpublished journal of a British Midshipman on board the Frigate Phoebe. I love contemporary journals. You can learn so much about life at sea. And this one was even advertised on the jacket, in capital letters no less, as:
 
"THE EPIC CHASE THAT INSPIRED THE FILM MASTER AND COMMANDER"!
 
Wow! Could it get any better? I placed my pre-order and patiently waited ....
 
Then it arrived ... in my small mail box with room to spare. The letter carrier could have easily slipped it under the door, really. Four inches by six inches and 152 pages? The introduction takes up the first thirty pages, and the addendum and footnotes consumes the last thirty-three ... Not looking good. Still there could be gold one those 89 pages remaining ...
 
Andrew Lambert writes on page 22:
 
" ... Indeed, the text is dominated by events on land. Only rarely does he discuss the sea."
 
But what about "THE EPIC CHASE THAT ..."
 
Yep. What we have here is a travel-log of far away sea ports - nineteenth century style. Comments on native dwellings mostly, with unfavorable descriptions of the people, etc., interspersed with poetry and religious philosophy. Gardiner mostly confines his journal to such affairs as "A short sketch of Peruvian poverty". He notes on page 72:
 
"Callao, the port city of Lima, is a small, miserable, ill built, town, little calculated to give the stranger any idea of the opulence and supposed grandeur of that city. The houses were low, few of them exceeding the ground floor, and are in general built of mud, which they use instead of plaister. The roofs are flat and covered with mats ..."
 
on page 76:
 
"The palace is a shabby building building without ornament and has more of the appearance of a warehouse than the residence of a Viceroy."
 
OK. I get it, Gardiner. You don't like foreign architecture ... surely even you must admire the fair Spanish ladies! I went to Colombia and Peru two years ago, and the eyes nearly popped from my head . Nope. Page 83.
 
"All the first families of Lima were here collected, and afforded a grand display of Spanish beauty, of which I am sad to say I was much disappointed, there were some pretty, but very few handsome women, and they wanted much of that easy air, and grace, which so characterizes our country women."
 
Let's move on ... the Essex, remember?  "THE EPIC CHASE ..."  Professor Lambert promised us on page 28:
 
"Allen Frances Gardiner's journal provides a useful British perspective on the Pacific campaign of 1813-1814 and the Battle of Valpariaso."
 
Finally ,on page 105, Gardiner tells us about the battle:
 
"We closed them about 20 minutes after 4, and after a severe action of about two hours, in which they certainly did honor to their flag, and fought till it would have been impossible to have retained their ship any longer, they gave up the contest and struck to HM Ship."
 
Yep. That's it. That's all he writes about the fight. Elvis has left the building. Goodnight. "THE EPIC ..." ?
 
To be fair, he does chat a bit about the aftermath. He confirms Porter's claims to have suffered very heavy losses. And he does make the rather startling and doubtful assertion that the Cherub fired only one broadside before retiring. But that's about it.
 
The editors must have thought this would be a great disappointment to the reader, so, in order to spice it up, they included a letter in the addendum, written by another midshipman, one Mr. Samuel Thornton, Jr., also of the Phoebe. It describes at some length, the events of the battle. But Thornton says little that is new. Snippets of this letter were published previously in James Henderson's "The Frigates" as having been written by an "un-named midshipman". A second, shorter letter, describing the battle but written by one of Phoebe's marines, it is best ignored.
 
All in all, it is a good historical book. But anyone looking for detailed descriptions of either ship, or of life at sea for the average tar, is advised to pass. I'm glad I bought it, but the claim that it " ... INSPIRED THE FILM MASTER AND COMMANDER" is a tad over the top. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

So its time to begin. I have removed the two blank ends from the hull leaving me with the rough shape to begin with. (I should have done a before photo, sorry) but here are the two ends now.
 
  
 
Then moved on to making the hull templates
 

 
and as you can see there will be a bit of work to be done on the hull shape when I begin
 
  
 
Deep breath and off we go. 

Hi all. I have a lot of woodwork experience but this is my first model build. I know I am in the deep end of the pool but I am hoping I can learn to swim with some help please. 
 
My first impressions out of the box are two complaints that neither hull planks or copper plates are included in the kit. When you do add them in it brings the cost up quite a bit but ok we are here now and that is my whinge over. 
 
I have lined out the solid hull blank and cut out a couple of the station sections from the manual and my first concern is that it seems like I will have to remove a lot of wood to get the hull down to the proper shape. Not a large thickness but a lot of adjustment throughout. Has anyone completed this build before and what do you think. I don't want to start carving off wood without some pointers. 
 
Thanks in advance. 
 
Ger 

Great Yankee super-ships, to be sure, but they were not unique. Let's give credit where it is due ...
 
The 24-pounder French Sister-frigates La Forte and L'Egyptienne predated Humphries frigates by about a half dozen years. They were of the same dimensions, force (thirty 24-pounders on the main deck) and design (flush decked, about 170 feet on the gundeck) and they were not only very successful, but Forte in particular, gained world fame for commerce raiding in the Indian Ocean, and for defeating a British 74. The Forte's successes and characteristics would have been known to H. when he was drawing up his own first draughts. NMM has L'Egyptienne's draughts, btw.
 
Then there was the slightly smaller, but equally successful  24-pounder Frigates La Resistance and La Vengeance, built circa 1794, each also mounting thirty long 24-pounders ...
 
Humphries was known to have been under a "French Influence" when he designed the big yankee 44's, but most writers have assumed that this was limited to the Continental Frigate South Caroline, ex L'Indienne (spelling?), seen by him in Philadelphia during the war, which was built to French designs in Holland. But Forte was much closer to Constitution, et al, in all respects than the South Carolina was.

Thanks for the review Wayne

The book is one of my favorite books about ships of the early U.S. Navy.
And for a while I wanted to build models of the two ships.
 
 

Well with the corrections nearly complete I thought it might be a good idea to do produce a proto-type build log (of sorts). Obviously unlike other kits ESSEX has already been released but it and the members here on MSW didn’t have the benefit of seeing it come together.
This will hopefully give everyone a chance to see the details in the kit, ask any questions they may have and hopefully clear up any misconceptions about the kit.
How I’ll conduct this is to follow along with the manual, although I won’t be posting the actual pages but some of the photos and details.
I’ll do this over a series of weeks (the manual is 15 chapters). It’s my intent to complete this in no more than half that time.
One note, any updates regarding the corrections will continue to be posted in that thread. This thread is solely about the design and build of the proto-type.
 
 

I found A history of American privateers by Edgar Maclay to be a really comprehensive, and readable, look at the exploits of privateers from the revolution and the War of 1812. I think it's an old book, so you can probably find it for free somewhere if you have an ereader.

I think it is important to highlight the philosophy behind the design and construction of the American 44s... The role of the frigate in European navies required much versatility.  These were the "eyes of the fleet", commerce raiders, convoy escorts, and flagships in far distant stations.  Not so the American frigates.  We can see from the exchange of notes between Joshua Humphries and the Secretary of War that these frigates were designed with a single purpose - to kick the *** of the common class of european frigates - specifically the British 38s.  Anything bigger, they'd have speed enough to escape.  As Frolick notes, they were not particularly fast in relation to their opponents - Java, Guerriere, and probably Macedonian could all have run circles around the heavier Americans (heck - Java practically did!).
 
It has become fashionable in recent years to re-analize the American victories in the War of 1812 and demystify the idea that the American navy was better than the Royal navy.  Many times the implication is that British crews were better, but they lost because the American ships were so big in comparison.  This sidesteps the reality that British ships had oftentimes defeated much more powerful ones in the past and had expected to do the same with the American frigates.  British officers also regarded the 24 pounder long guns as too unwieldy for frigate actions and expected to outshoot the American crews.  In reality, they probably did, but with much less effect and they suffered greatly from the accurate and heavy return fire of the bigger ships.  I think it can be conceded that the British ships were generally fought with skill and fortitude against much more powerful opponents, but the truth is those frigates lost their fights long before the shooting started...  They lost their fights when Joshua Humphries put pen to paper and convinced Henry Knox to sign off on a class of frigate that other powers thought were too expensive to build and maintain and too slow to ever be effective in single ship actions.
 
Man were they wrong.
 
Evan

Great Yankee super-ships, to be sure, but they were not unique. Let's give credit where it is due ...
 
The 24-pounder French Sister-frigates La Forte and L'Egyptienne predated Humphries frigates by about a half dozen years. They were of the same dimensions, force (thirty 24-pounders on the main deck) and design (flush decked, about 170 feet on the gundeck) and they were not only very successful, but Forte in particular, gained world fame for commerce raiding in the Indian Ocean, and for defeating a British 74. The Forte's successes and characteristics would have been known to H. when he was drawing up his own first draughts. NMM has L'Egyptienne's draughts, btw.
 
Then there was the slightly smaller, but equally successful  24-pounder Frigates La Resistance and La Vengeance, built circa 1794, each also mounting thirty long 24-pounders ...
 
Humphries was known to have been under a "French Influence" when he designed the big yankee 44's, but most writers have assumed that this was limited to the Continental Frigate South Caroline, ex L'Indienne (spelling?), seen by him in Philadelphia during the war, which was built to French designs in Holland. But Forte was much closer to Constitution, et al, in all respects than the South Carolina was.

Great Yankee super-ships, to be sure, but they were not unique. Let's give credit where it is due ...
 
The 24-pounder French Sister-frigates La Forte and L'Egyptienne predated Humphries frigates by about a half dozen years. They were of the same dimensions, force (thirty 24-pounders on the main deck) and design (flush decked, about 170 feet on the gundeck) and they were not only very successful, but Forte in particular, gained world fame for commerce raiding in the Indian Ocean, and for defeating a British 74. The Forte's successes and characteristics would have been known to H. when he was drawing up his own first draughts. NMM has L'Egyptienne's draughts, btw.
 
Then there was the slightly smaller, but equally successful  24-pounder Frigates La Resistance and La Vengeance, built circa 1794, each also mounting thirty long 24-pounders ...
 
Humphries was known to have been under a "French Influence" when he designed the big yankee 44's, but most writers have assumed that this was limited to the Continental Frigate South Caroline, ex L'Indienne (spelling?), seen by him in Philadelphia during the war, which was built to French designs in Holland. But Forte was much closer to Constitution, et al, in all respects than the South Carolina was.

Yes, the Constitution had stouter frames than La Forte did, but this came at a price. The Constitution was not very fast. The USS United States was nick-named "Old Wagon" because she just plodded along. The President's plan was sharpened slightly by Josiah Fox, and her frames, although strong, were lighter than "Old Ironsides" 's frames. The President was the best sailing ship of the three 44's. The USS Guerriere, launched in 1813, had even heavier timbers, and her nick-name was "Old Washtub".
 
The French ships didn't need the riders because they were lighter, and their uniquely French deck clamp arrangement was more of a "uni-body" type, that was more efficient.