harvey1847

Hi Ed. Not sure what to say other then a heck of a job. On a side note and would like to see him but could you put your figure next to the hull like in photo 7 above. Just want to see how it looks with him standing beside all of that framing which Is what I like best about building them. Thank you sir. Gary

Hi Ed,
 
I grew up a thousand miles from an ocean, and knew of ships only through models and photos. I was astounded when I first visited the real sailing ships in the San Francisco maritime museum when I was a teenager, and I could not believe how big they really were. I am still amazed when I put my little captain figure next to pieces of wood or parts of construction in my Bellona model, to see how massively large these ships were. All the more amazing when you think how much was done with hand tools. Your photo and drawing show the same thing. That is a solid wall of wood one story high at the stern, and the stem construction laid flat would be as big as a small sized room in a house. Sobering to think how they did it.
 
Mark

Thanks, everyone.
 
Be careful what you wish for, Guy.
 
Daniel, I took this picture some time back to show the size of the keelson but never posted It, so by request, here it is.  It is the only 1:72 figure I have - without cap he is a six-footer.  Wrong nationality, period ans profession, but here it is.  This ship was 100 ft longer than Naiad.
 

 
And if its me you want, here I am resized and time transported across the Atlantic from 1797 to 1853 - a little stouter but no taller at 6'2".
.

 
Ed

Daniel, your build is amazing. Keep up the great work and keep the pictures coming !
 
Eric

Well guys, I got to finally do some cooking and if any one has a pig, bring it on over and we can have a roast. Only kidding but finally have Alfred stove just about finished. Been working on it for a couple of days and has been a lot of fun. Its built of copper and brass, and a few pieces of plastic and wood thrown in to the mix. Still have to put the  bar around it and finish the stack. A couple of the items, probably will get replace, such as the pot holder's and in the mean time will have to make some pot's and pans. Don't be to hard guys and still need a lot of work on it.   Also have to figure out how am going to get that cast iron look so if any of you have any ideal's on how to do this, let me know, would you please. Just to let you know there was a few items that came from Chuck's photo etch set which came in real handy, so thank you Chuck. Enjoy the photo's guy's.
 
Gary 

Thanks B.E., Joe and Ed. It did come a long way didn't it. Thanks again. Gary

Thanks Mark. It does make one stop and think till you been on a air craft carrier which had a crew of 7000. Try feeding that many guys. That is untill you find out that they had three kitchens that usually work 24/7. Had to work in one for two weeks when I was on board the Midway. Lots of fun for sure.
 
Hi Larry.Thank you sir and am glad that my log is a help to you.  I was going to ask Larry but have you started a build log and would love to see your Alfred on here. Now if I understand your question your asking about the grating/deck planking on the orlop deck around the pump well? As far as grating on this deck am not sure that other then in the middle were hatches would of been may of been the only place for grating, which probably been flushed with the planking. Most of the plank's would of been short and fitted in to rabbets on the forward and aft edges of the top of the beams, which could be removed in order to get at the supplies in the hold. If I was going to plank it I would have just cut short planks to fit  between the beams. They did also fit carlings and ledges between the orlop beams to help strengthen the short planks between the beams but I didn't install them also. You may of miss this detail on the orlop deck so have included a photo showing the rabbet. Peter Goodwin in his book Sailing Man of War, show's on page 59 fig 2/8 how the planks would of looked accept I do believe they would have been flush with the beams. Keeps one from stubbing a toe that's for sure. Hope this is of some help Larry. If it doesn't answer you question let me know and we will come up with the right answer.
Gary 

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 40 – Aft Half Frames 1
 
As in the forward section, the aft half frames lie between the cant frames and the aftermost of the full square frames.  They bolt to the vertical side of the deadwood and are square to the line of the keel.  When installed they will be hard to distinguish from the full frames that rest on the keel.  However when the horizontal bolts are installed the difference will be more obvious.
 
I installed the first of these following the method used on the forward frames.  As shown in the first picture these, although separate, were fabricated as a single assembly held together with temporary cross-spalls.  This assembly would then be slipped over the deadwood at the correct height.  The breadth at the top is held by the spalls and alignment set using the center string line.
 

 
The next picture shows the erection method.
 

 
The sides are contained by the two clamped squares located at the line on the base drawing.  The center of the spall is marked and aligned with the string.  The height on both sides is set using the vertical caliper based on heights taken from the drawing.  This worked well except that gluing and accurately clamping at the deadwood was a bit involved.  I soon adopted the simpler method shown in the next picture.
 

 
In this method the two frame halves are installed separately.  The ribbands at the planksheer were extended back into the cant frames.  These ribbands are then used to set the height and breadth of the frames at the top, where they are pinned tightly through the ribband as was done for the full frames.  This method roughly mimics actual shipyard practice.
 

 
This turned out to be a very much simpler method with equal accuracy.  In the next picture a half frame has been lightly clamped at the bottom and the frame is held so the top of the aft top member is at the top of the ribband. The ribband has been marked with the joint line of the frame for fore and aft alignment.  A pin hole is being drilled through in the picture.
 

 
Once pinned at the top it is an easy matter to rotate the frame to apply glue to the face, then position and clamp it in place by one of the methods shown above.  This process is almost too simple.  However, it does depend on an accurate ribband line.
 
To help assure this, a spreader was inserted and pinned at frame 33, about midway in the remaining open space.  Sized from the pattern for 33, this helps maintain the correct curve of the ribband breadth.  This spreader and two measured strips are shown in the next picture.
 

 
The strips are loose and were merely used to check the breadth at the last full frame and the last installed half frame.
 
The last picture shows the hull at present.  The remaining gap in the framing should soon be filled.
 

 
Apart from the clutter of my workshop in the background, this picture gives an idea of the length of this hull – and of the L/B ratio.  This is one long slim ship -  roughly 240 feet long by about 43 feet broad – about 6/1.  Naiad:  3.7/1.
 
 
 Ed

Hello all,
 
a belated happy new year to all. Sorry for the long absence, but am still doing house jobs, they seem to be never ending. hope to have averything clear by next month, as I really miss my Scharnhorst, and the conversations with you guys.
 
see you all very soon.

Steamship Heinrich Kayser
 
Introduction to this build log, by Nils Langemann
 
The steamship Heinrich Kayser was launched in 1898 baptized to its birthname „Elbing“ and was one of the typical new fast merchant vessels built for the D.A.D.G. (Deutsch Australische Dampfschiffahrts Gesellschaft) shipping company at the FSG shipyard in Flensburg, northern Germany. It served the trade route Europe via Cape of Good Hope or via Suez Canal and the red sea and across the Indian Ocean to several Australian Ports together with her sister ships on regulary basis for many years.
After WW1 and in compliance with the Treaty of Versailles demands the Elbing went under command and management of a british shipping controller, from which the “Elbing” was bought back again by the Hamburg based Kayser & Sohn shipping Company in 1921, which renamed the vessel to “Heinrich Kayser”. In 1922 my grandfather was appointed as the master in command on its last fatal voyage from England to the US eastcoast, down to Florida and back touching Norfolk Virginia as last port and thereafter went down with all aboard her in a heavy full gale and with broken rudderchain and broken hatchcovers. The last SOS radio signals came from position of the New England Seamount Chain, some 500 miles off the US eastcoast where the Atlantic is 5000m deep. No survivers, not a trace was ever found. This type of ship was a mere cargo steamer of 5600 tons, which may have been able to accommodate 2-3 passengers, midships. The Heinrich Kayser was capable of cruising at max. of 12 knots with her twin-boiler arrangement in tandem setup, and having appr. 20 firemen (stokers and heaters), working in shifts to keep the boilers at pressure accordingly.
I built this model, which is already completed to date, after a shipyard overview plan in honor to my grandfather and all its 43 souls crew and three passengers.
It is only a couple of weeks ago that per incidence, and 91 years after that foundering, on a raised web forum thread I was able to take up contact with an american lady, who`s great grandmother as well as her great aunt have been on board the Heinrich Kayser at that time and lost their lives as passengers way back in 1922
The build log shall comprise probably 21 individual parts due to limit of pics per post, and shall document all building sequences in pictures. Comments, questions, etc. shall be welcome and answered along with the build log as it grows.
The model took me appr. 1800 manhours to build over 2 years including the search for a plan, new modeling techniques like metal- plating /”riveting”, soldering, glass-case making, all trials, etc.
The fully completed model can be viewed in my album (steamship Heinrich Kayser) under topic : Gallery of completed scratch built models
Have fun and enjoy whilst studying this oldtimer steamer of 1898 in its buildup
 
Nils
 
Here it Begins.....
 
Build log part1
 

this is one of the ship under its birthname "Elbing"
 

this is one of the very last Pictures of the Heinrich Kayser
 

overview plan frontsection
 

overview plan aftsection
 

stringers and single-layer planking in pine
 

 

 

planking under way, propshaft built in
 

Frame plan, self drawn, not included in overview plan
 

planking nearly completed
 
 
 
Part 2 to follow....

Thanks to everyone who have visited and clicked on "like."  It's really very encouraging.
 
I spend most part of the day making a new lid and playing with building a mock-up for the hinges.
 
The lid is finished and temporarily put on the bun hole.  Now I need to finish the mock-up and figure out how to make the hinges.  Looks like a bowed bracket may do the trick.  I may leave this for a while and do some main deck work like cementing the torpedo loading trolley tracks and paint the deck.  In the meantime I'll do some thinking on the hinges.
 
Well, here is the new and third lid.
 

The fit is passable, I may fiddle some more with it and I could even paint the starboard side of the hull 
 

As you can see the braces are now much better and so are the little holes.  I think I'll keep this one 
 
Cheers, 

Let me first thank everyone for visiting and hitting the like button.
 
Today I un-clamped the styrene bun and checked it over.  It looks acceptable after I cleaned it up and trimmed it down to fit inside the ballast tank area.  It just fits with no room to spare, just what the doctor ordered, I'm happy.  I needed to glue a thin piece of wood to the bulkhead and to a longitudinal stringer on the side to give the bun something to cement to.
 
Next I glued the small braces to the inside of the lid cover with CA, trimmed it and fitted it.  It fits like a glove and looks really good - - - but - - - - - - upon closer scrutiny I didn't put the braces in the correct location.  Instead of de-glueing them I decided to remake the lid, which is already done.  Next will be new braces and cementing them on making sure this time to do it correct.  
 
In the meantime I also painted the inside of the ballast tank and the bun.  After the paint had dried I glued the bun into place.  It'll be a close fit to load the mines into it.  
 
I may still wind up making the lid from brass but for right now I'll keep trying with wood.  It is now more of a challenge to me then anything else     This thing is not going to get the best of me.
 
Okay, here are a few pics of today's work.
 

This shows the completed lid loosely laid in place.  Looks good, right?  But - - - the outside looks are deceiving.  Wait till you see the inside but ashamed as I am I'll show it to yuns anyway 
 

The styrene bun still needing cleaning and trimming.
 

This shows the bun cemented in place and everything painted.  Now take a close look at the underside of the lid.  What do you see?  kinda clear to me that I royally screwed up and need to remake this lid.
 

This makes you look straight down the bun to the bottom of the ballast tank and you can see how close a fit it'll be for the mines.
 
Cheers, 

More again  
 
                 

More.. 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

Hi Mark,
 
 
I'm betting it will - why do a Full Frame model and cover it all up??? Once you have sorted the issues with the Hahn framing plan, and the first few PERFECTLY MADE AND POSITIONED frames go in ...... well ......
 
If you were going to fully plank the model - why bother starting over ??? If you decide to go ahead with ply bulkheads I can already see what will happen - halfway through building the hull you'll get dissatisfied with the "shortcut" and start on Licorne v3.0   .
 
 
A word of advice - DON'T. There are minute variations in the height and angle of sheer on EACH frame. No amount of careful measuring and cutting will get them EXACTLY right. There will be gaps that stand out like the dog's proverbials when you come to fit the Port Sills. A better strategy is to leave the frames at least 2mm too long and trim them to size with a sanding stick that goes through to the opposite port after at least the Deck Clamps go in (I left mine until after I'd planked the deck). Leave out the Toptimbers above the ports until the lower sills have been trimmed. Same goes for the other Toptimbers - leave the final trimming until MUCH later in the build.
 
And .... what TimC said above about planning  .
 
  Danny

ready

Neptune, Poseidon, Nij

Keel blocks ... Not processed after casting.

My dear friend Remco, do you know what you are doing to me          You are pushing the envelope for me - - - brass mine bun lids - - indeed    Now, that would be the easy way out, at least for me and if this wooden thingy is not working out I may just go that route.  It seems a shame to make it from brass because it'll be painted anyhow.   But then again, it aint over till it's over - - - or after the fat lady sings. 
 
As it is I had to remove one ply from the plywood so it would cooperate with me in making the bend.  I now have a piece of bywood        This morning I cemented the little braces to the lid cover but then had to go to the dentist for my FINAL visit on the restoration project - - - hip, hip, hurray   
 
I'll be going to the shipyard right now and clean that little sucker up and dry-ft it.  If it doesn't look good I may just go for the brass.  It really would solve my hinge concern too - - - hmmmmm - - - thanks for the hint though 
You know, when I was puts'n with the inside of the ballast tank yesterday I had this fleeting but sickening thought popping into my mind - - - why not do the one next to it as well.  Well, like I said, it was a fleeting though.  No, I'll leave it with on.  You all know what happens when you do two, from there it's three then ten, then - - - you want to see me totally nuts and berserk and run into the sunset to Beserkistan - - - never to be seen again????  Doomed to a life making brass thingies   
 
The styrene bun is also made and dry fitted, seems okay.  I also figured out how to cement that one in place.  I hope to have a few pics this evening.
 
Oooh - -  what tangled webs we weave but thanks for the hint Remco  
 
Cheers, 

Hello:
 
Thank you. I have looked Wang's ship and very nice wished mine was even half that good. I will probably end up making my quarter galleys the same, but I would like to try and get them like the print. The picture shows my interpretation of the roof of the quarter galleys is this not correct according to the print. Heck I don't know just got to get rid of the lollipop effect.
 
TJ 

Hello:
 
Been trying to figure out this stern. What's wrong with this pic?  Looks like a Bunch of ice cream sticks for the over head.  I was going to make it rounded shingles all the way up but don't know after looking at this. Should it be one solid piece flat on top?  How is it to be done.  Is there any rule of thumb for this class ship.
 
The other pic it fell out of dry dock when repairing the galley lights that got in the way of my fat fingers.  I'll repair it after I figure out the stern.
 
TJ

As shown in a previous post I have cut a hole in my model soooooohh - - - - I have now a holy sub - - -           oooooooh, I crack me up     
 
Okay, enough of my sick humor, snicker - - snicker      I managed to pretty-up the opening a little by putting a file folder back-up to the underside of it.  It still needs a little more dressing up but that'll come after I have cemented the mine bun in.  I don't know yet how I'm going to do that but we'll come up with a solution.  Originally there were brackets attached to the pressure hull and the bun was fastened to them.
 
I also managed to worm a pice of file folder card stock inside to simulate the pressure hull.  That piece is held in place with caulking compound.  Then I made and installed a piece of framing between the the bun areas as is shown on the actual build photos.  I lucked out on that operation.  See pics 6 and 7 below.
 
Then I started with making a new bun lid from a small piece of 1 mm ply.  There are a few framing pieced on the underside which I made from boxwood.  First I had to make a template for the correct curvature of the hull in that area and used a piece of styrene - - - yup, I found it - - -
All very time consuming work to get the right curves in these little pieces of wood but I think they are correct.  We'll know tomorrow when I'm going to assemble the door / lid for the bun.  If not, then we'll go to plan B, make another one.
 
I also started to make the bun from styrene.  I rolled it around a ⅜ drive long socket wrench of the right inside diameter and clamped it together with 6 water hose style steel clamps, then dunked it in very hot water for about 20 minutes to take the strain off.
Then dried it off and re-clamped it back with Duco cement and a reinforcing strip on the seam to make the weld hold tight.  I'll find out tomorrow how this is holding up.  Then comes the task of cementing it inside the ballast tank.  But first I need to paint the inside of the ballast tank dark grey to match the color of steel.
 
It doesn't look like much work but it was all very tedious and time consuming.  Yes, it is a challenge but actually fun
 
The biggest challenge will be making the hinges for the lid.  No clue yet how I'm going to do that in such a way as to make the actually hinges not visible when closed.  I'll have to make a test piece first I think, before messing around with it on the boat itself.
 
Okay, here are a few pics of today's progress.
 

This shows the main parts for the lid.  The long straight piece will be cut into three sections to fit between the 2 longitudinal pieces, shown here with the curves.  I don't know yet what glue or cement I'll be using, either 5 minute epoxy or CA.  There is some tension on lid piece to keep it in a bend.  See pic 6 below.
 

The next three pics show the inside of the ballast tank where the mine bun will be located.  Here you can see that end frame and a part of the pressure hull.  I modeled the end frame after the real one as shown in the actual build photos.  See pics 6 and 7 below.
 

This is the bulkhead of my model and I plan to paint the bottom of it black leaving the top part grey with three black circles to simulate that top frame piece.
 

This shows the simulated pressure hull.  It'll be painted dark grey to simulate steel.  I may even reduce the width of the lip where the lid rests on.
 

Here is the styrene bun clamped on a socket wrench acting as a mold.  The cement should hold after 16 hours curing time.  Then it needs to be prettied up, trimmed to size and cemented into the ballast tank area.  Yes, and painted too 
 

Here we see the O19 at the Navy base in Den Helder when she was brand new.  And yup, I'm sure that's my father standing at the aft end of the conning tower, it's the tall fellow with his head cocked a little, his typical stance    The reason for this picture is to show how the upper braces in the ballast tanks look like and why I modeled them as I did.
 

This photo was taken in 1938 when she was being build. It also shows how these braces look like.
 

We are not there yet making mines but this picture shows how they look like and how they load them babies.  This photo was taken in 1944 during her war patrol era.
 

This picture does not belong here but I like for you to go back a few posts together with picture 6 above and compare my work with the conning tower with these pics.  This one shows the snorkel exhaust pipe exstanded with the shroud on the bottom.  I think I came pretty close 
 
Cheers. 

Hi All,
 
I am relatively new to model ship building and I am currently busy with a kit ship build. This hobby has really bitten me and I have been toying with the idea of starting a scratch build for a while now. I didn't want to start to large a project for now so when I saw the Triton cross section project, I immediately thought it would be perfect.
 
Seeing as I live in a country (Namibia) where wood is hard to come by and incredibly expensive the next step was to see what wood I could build it with. I found an old peach log and re-sawed it in order to use that. Although the wood is perfect I do not think I have enough for the entire project. I decided to use Kiaat which is a local wood and freely available here. It keeps an edge rather well and is very easy to work with. It also polishes to a rather nice finish. For the planking I plan to use Oak but I am still doing more research on that. I am open to any suggestions regarding that.
 
So the next step was to download the plans and get the saw dust flying. The rough lumber was cut into usable sizes using a band saw and the timber list as a rough guide. Next I cut the three pieces in the first plan and sanded them smooth. 
 
To make the rabbit, I formed a scraper from an old hack saw blade using my rotary tool and some needle files. A picture can be seen below:
 

 
Here I am busy forming the rabbit:
 

 
The three pieces are shown below. All in all I am happy with the result.
 

Well, long time no see....
 
Busy at work and home, and slack doing updates - these are my excuses. Also, there wasn't much visually happening so I just kept doing bits and not updating the log.
 
The work that has been done is to strengthen the frames ready for external fairing. To do that I wanted to get the quarter deck clamps on, which then lets me put the tops of the frames on where there are gun ports. Once I decided to do that, I had to do the orlop and lower deck clamps and then the stern timbers.
 
So I set to cutting top and butt planks using my table saw and two pieces of wood cut to the right angles as jigs. I glued a piece of wood to the end to serve as a pushing block, and two pieces to the side to hold the planks down and stop them climbing as they went over the blade.


 
The results looked ok, and more importantly they fit.

 
So I got the lower clamps done, then started on the stern timbers. To align the frames on each side up I cobbled together a plank with a copy of the plans of the tops of the frames, and glued strips of wood on. The frames then sat in that and were glued to the counter timber.

These frames still need cutting down to their correct lengths, but I'll do that after strengthening with the transoms.
 
So, now some shots of the whole thing. Still working on the quarterdeck clamps. Where they meet the strings of the waist I didn't put a proper scarph in, but simply cut a small scarph of one frame width to strengthen the joint.





 
As I do these small tasks, I am removing the original spacers from between the hull frames as the clamps take up the job of keeping everything in place. This is proving to be harder than I expected, mainly due to the good quality glue  , but they are coming out. 
 
Cheers all
Rob

Hello again.
 
The last while has been busy with all the unimportant things in life, like the dreaded work, so I have not made much progress at all. After seeing Egen's last update, I have to resist the urge to jump ahead of myself .....
 
After running the floorhead thickstuff along the wrong lines, I ripped them all off and started relaying them. Most of the damage done by my wild flailing about with my chisels is now conveniently hidden by the new planking, but I do have a little cleaning up to do.
 
These consist of two runs of 12 11 x 5 inch (22 inch total) with 2 runs of 11 10.5 x 4 inch (21 inch total) each above and below.Midships this totals 6 planks wide, reducing to 4 planks at the ends. Midships and aft, there is little curve, so I just steamed the planks and clamped them while gluing. Where the planking meets the keelson at the bow, it was easier to spile the planks than bend them.
 
Where the number of planks reduced from 6 to 4 at each end, I used a drop strake on the thinner planks above and below the two main planks to merge the two into a single plank running to the ends.
 
The photos are not very good, so I hope to replace them later this week with shots taken outside in natural light.
 
Midships, middle two runs of thickstuff done, the first run above that being clamped in place.

 
Towards the bow, and both the top runs are being fixed in place. The last planks at the bow are spiled as the curve was too great to bend the planks.

 
At the stern, the lower of the two top runs is cut to allow the top run to "drop" into it forming .....

 
.... a single plank to terminate at the aft fashion piece. The same happens forward, and a variation happens to the lower two runs at each end below the main thickstuff.

 
And so far, the planking is done except for 4 lengths which "drop" into the last planks at each end.

 
Cheers
Rob