themadchemist

I have now fitted all the upper gunport cills.These have been faired off flush inside and out.The counter side timber has also been fitted,but the lower hull is still to shape at a later date.There is quite a bit of difference between kit and builders model in this area.Franklin states in his book that the stern balcony actually has a grated deck.The carvings below the balcony act as knees to support this deck and to a lesser extent the stern structure.This is not easily visible in pictures but after enlarging the NMM pics as much as possible it became clear how this construction worked.
This is a far as I am taking this side for now,work will commence on the port side.There a still some small round gunports to create for the poopdeck,but I am not confident to the actual finished level of this deck at the moment so they will be added a little later.
 
Kind Regards
 
Nigel

Grating construction pt2
 
I next glued battens into the notches in the ledges.The height of the battens was oversize as the tops would be milled off.I used aliphatic,with a drop in each joint rather than using dilute PVA,
When set,the top face of the gratings was faced of again with the miller,but still above finished level.Whilst on the mill bench,I trimmed the ends of the battens flush with the end ledges.
 
I have made the decision to carry out representation of all fastenings with copper.This was my original intention at the start and I have decided to stick to it.So now to the grating nailing.I have started drilling two holes at each intersection 0.3mm diameter.Unfortunately this must be done manually with a pin vise.Due to the drill diameter,I was unable to find anything adequately concentric and small enough to hold the drill in the mill or rotary tool.Into the holes I am bonding with CA 0.27mm copper wire.I have made a start in the pics,but you can appreciate it may be a little while before part 3 .The top face still has around 0.4mm of material to be removed so this should eradicate the glue residue.
 
Kind Regards
 
Nigel

Grating construction Part one.
 
Not only do I want to produce  more historically accurate gratings,I wanted to produce them in Pear to match the rest of the model.As far as I am aware A.Banarov is the only producer of grating kits in Pear but ordering some gratings from Odessa would be a bit extreme,even for me
 
I decided that the ledges and battens would be 1.5mm wide with holes 1mm square.This gave a scale hole size of 60mm by 60mm.The way I have decided to produce these should enable scale holes for Royal William by adjusting the centres I work to on the miller.
 
The first step was to make some sacrificial jigs.These comprise of some mdf cut to a suitable size to allow easy clamping on the miller table.On to this I bonded some pear strip machined with 1.5mm wide slots at 2.5mm centres.

The next stage was to bond some 1.5mm by 2.5mm pear ledges into the slots.When dry the top was faced off in the miller and then perpendicular slots machined 1.2mm deep into the ledges.The gratings will be thinned in depth further when the battens are glued in place.Keeping everything oversize to start with,eliminates any deflection of the ledges whilst machining.It is my intention to curve the assembled piece after assembly and removal from the jig as everything will be far too thin to allow the curved face to be sanded on.

 
 
To be continued
 
Kind Regards
 
Nigel

I thought it was about time for an update as the last one was several months ago   .
 
I have fitted the waterway and quickwork to the other internal hull face and completed the planking of the deck.I am currently completing  the exposed frame finishing pieces and working on the deck finish.I anticipate many coats of poly rubbed down every three coats.This gives a glass like surface as whilst I wish to see joints in the woodwork,I don't want to be able to feel them.
I feel these pictures may be a little on the red side.The pear is definitely brown with no hint of red,trouble is outdoor daylight pics are hard to come by as its dark when at home during the week and we have had some awful weather on the weekends
 
Kind Regards
 
Nigel

Continuing on with the first hull planking.....
 
I follow the same steps up to plank 4 on the upper and lower hull sections...
 

 

 
(On plank 4 for the upper hull it needed to be tapered to the aft besides taper to the bow.  I'll show my 'basic' steps to do the taper below)
 
Plank 5 on the upper hull decided to cross the road with it's natural lay.
 

 
The pieces along the upper and lower hull now continue to taper to both ends.  
 
So the basic steps I did to taper the ends.  I fit the piece to be cut against the previous plank.   Place my alignment marks so I keep things straight where it will go back in at.  I then mark where the plank rubs against the already installed plank, just like we did previously with the bow section.  I also then mark on the opposite side of the plank from my previous mark where the tapering gap will end,
 

 

 
I mark do the same marks on the other half of the plank.   Then using a straight edge connect the marks on both sides of the plank, then cut along the lines and sand the cut edges.
 

 

 
Test fit and sand/file as needed until you are happy with the fit.  Then glue it in and clamp.
 

 
Bow and mid section done with the first layer of planking.  Have to finish doing the stern section then start sanding and filling where needed.  Start on that tomorrow if I have time.
 

 

Found on youtube some video reports on one of the voyages of the Virginia ( a re created pilot boat of the original Virginia ) where they would take teenagers out on a working voyage.  Really cool to see the boat and the work it takes to sail her and get an idea what it's like out at sea on one of these ships.
 

I next continue by working on placing the first planks to follow the keel line.    Since the keel line is beveled I sand that side of my plank so it meets this bevel ( or try to anyways ).  Then while test fitting it I follow the natural curvature of the plank towards the bow till it curves over the center line of the keel and I make sure it has enough overhang so the entire end of the plank is past that center line.  I glue it in place from bulkheads 3-5.  Holding the bow end down I miter cut the end of the plank to the center line and glue that down.  Hard to clamp this part so had to hold it in place.
 

 
( note I don't work the stern half yet)
 
I repeat this on the other side.
 

 
Once they are set, and with some moisture on the stern half of both planks I SLOWLY twist the planks about 90 degrees to follow the curvature of bulkhead 6 until the planks lay flat against the false keel.  They should lay about flush with the keel line, depending on how your planks fit against the keel along bulkheads 2-5.  ( i.e if they are a little above the keel line at 2-5 then so should it be at the end (stern end of the keel ).   Glue and clamp, I needed a big clamp at the end of the keel and smaller ones just to hold the plank against the keel. 
 
Now for my first planking problem.  I had started on the second row of planks here, glued it all down and clamped.  Set it down to let the glue set up and turned away for just a moment and ....'SNAP!'   Looked back and one of the planks had broke right after bulkhead 6.  I could not get a clamp in there to hold it together  and just ended up using my fingers.  I had to work fast as the glue was setting up.  I couldn't afford to just take it out and do over as I don't think I have enough planks from the kit to afford loosing one.  Being under so much tension of twisting, maybe not wet enough  and this was one of the planks that the grains didn't follow its length I was then not surprised it snapped, just a bad place to do it.   Lesson here is if you need to do a stressful bend, check the grains of the plank first and pick one that can take the stress.
 

 
( the break after I got the 3rd row in to help support the weakened plank)
 
Key with this twist is it has to 'flow' smoothly, not too tight and radical.
 
a few more pics by the time I got the 3rd row in along the keel.....
 

 

 
Started on a 3rd plank row on the deck side/upper hull then got tired so going to bed after this post.
 

 

 

 
( using thumb tacks to hold in the edge of the next plank as it is thin and can't get a clamp in.  Note this wood is hard to push a tack into it so had to tap it in with a hammer)  Also I don't put the tack into the plank, that can cause it to split.  instead i use the pins edge as a 'stop' to hold it against the previous plank and then push the tack down and let the plastic handle part push the plank down against the surface I'm gluing it to. 
 

So as I get farther into the planking, it's becoming obvious that I needed to spend more time on the hull fairing, or rather, I need a better understanding of the plank flow when I'm placing test planks for the fairing, or something.
 
I'm getting quite a dip in the planks on both sides just aft of the bow, and the planks at the stern are nowhere near symmetrical side to side - I'll need a stealer on one side to even them out at some point.
 
Here you can see the dips on both sides where the fairing was done incorrectly.  Luckily this is a double planked project so I'll be able to fill these, but it's a bit of a disappointment to me, as I was hoping that this first planking would have been good enough to be a final planking, as a personal goal.

 
The planking if you only look at the stem area is still pretty nice though!

 
I'm still doing a fair amount of edge-bending to get the planks to come in at the stem, even spiling them to 1/2 a plank width on every plank so far, although it is getting less pronounced on this 3rd one.  The stern would require severe edge bending to get them to stay at full width, so they are getting spiled which is why I'll need a stealer at some point on at least one side, possibly both, on this upper section.

I agree with Tony,
if you don't replace the bulkhead, at least mark it so you have a guideline to shoot for, but I'd trust the lay of the plank most of all, but it never hurts to have a idea of where the stop should be.

Stern part two.

 
I've decided to fit the replacement rear bulkhead and add new balsa in-fills.
I've started to rough them down and will finalise when I do the fairing.
Not much progress as I've been away.
 

 

 

 

Side trip - and update not about the AVS, but my trip through the forsaken wastelands (also known as Nevada).
 
The gentleman who was divesting himself of his years of shipbuilding is doing so for multiple reasons.  Something over 10 years ago he and his wife moved 500'ish miles to a smaller house, so all of the shipbuilding stuff was packed away.  At about the same time, he took up the new hobby of writing books, and discovered that he apparently had both a taste, and talent for this, as he now has 6 books published, mostly historical biographies it appears.  In retrospect, I should have planned for another day, as the length of the journey left me with very little time to visit, and he was an incredibly nice guy.  Honestly I could have spent the better part of a day looking at the 4 models he had left (the rest having been sold when he moved) on display in his house.
 
On display he had a fully rigged semi-scratch (or heavily kit-bashed) Charles W. Morgan, a very detailed large scale model of one of the whaleboats (other than the color scheme, reminded me very much of the recently completed one here in this very forum), and two admiralty style models - the HMS Druid, and the Confederacy - both of which were from the Lumberyard plans and wood.  All four of these models were simply gorgeous, and I'm the dumbest person around for not taking my camera on the trip to get some pictures.  He began modeling in the early 70's, and the Morgan was his final completed model, in the late 90's.  He had started on the Hannah when he moved. 
 
Everything you see is what I collected and packed back to Arizona, and it was all given for free, no strings attached, although on the pay-it-forward principle, I'll do my best to pass everything along if/when I decide I don't need it.  I'll start this next weekend by taking several of the books that are duplicates of ones I've already purchased, to the new Arizona Shipwrights club meeting, and giving them to whoever wants them.
Onward to the stuff.
 
Books are always good, as well as magazines of course, especially older ones that contain so much wonderful knowledge that was used to create models back before this awesome thing called the internet.

 
A fair assortment of miscellaneous tools, most of which will be useful, and some will replace existing tools as they are higher quality.  Also included in all the little plastic containers are the left over fittings and all kinds of random parts from approximately 12 builds including cannon and carriages, eye-bolts, deadeyes, blocks, rigging, chain plates, etcs.

 
And finally, the partially completed Hannah, as well as all of the wood, plans, and instructions to finish her (in theory).  Also included is all of the left-over wood from his other builds, and I have no idea what is what.  There appear to be enough dowels to build masts and yards for about half a fleet.

 
It was certainly an interesting trip, and I'll get some use out of a lot of this stuff.  From a purely financial perspective I'm not sure the trip made a lot of sense (my car went into the shop the day before I left with an engine warning light, so I had to rent a car), although the total value of everything I have pictured here is certainly higher than the cost of the trip, and I enjoyed meeting an older and very experienced ship builder.  I don't regret making the trip, but it did teach me that as I'm getting older, making crazy long 14+ hour days on the road is something I should not do anymore if I can avoid it.
 
I started my day Thursday when I left my house around 7:45am to do a couple stops before picking up the rental car, which promptly started getting engine warning lights and shutting off the cruise control barely 50 miles out of town.  I swapped the car at the airport in Vegas, which cost me about 90 minutes probably, and checked into a hotel outside of Reno just after Midnight.  Trip home was fairly uneventful, but of course took about the same amount of time, after loading the car and visiting for a while, I left Reno around 10:30, and got home about Midnight.  Returned the rental car yesterday morning, ran some errands, and took a long nap. 
 
Now I need to catch up on laundry and stuff, and then I'll see about starting back in on the AVS.

Still owe you the solution of the "What the hell is this":
 
 

 
 
It is simply the wooden lock to avoid the unshipping of the rudder!
 
Here in place ...
 

 
... and as it looks too nice, the whole ensemble :-)
 

 
Cheers, Daniel

And here I go again.
 
Wanted to do something easy for once ...
 
... took some sheet and made the lids for the stern ports ...
 
... rememberd not to do a rabbet on all sides ...
 
... after having done it si cured it with 05 mm x 5 mm Evergreen.
 

 
Was happy mac to finally use some of my etch parts on my own build :-)
 
Made 0,7 mm ringlets ...
 

 
... mounted them on the eyebolts, blackened them, mounted them , painted the lids ...
 

 
... fixed them on the appropriate place and put the lanyards.
 

 
And what can one already see on the picture? Break, Intermezzo, short review
 
Sometimes in spring 2011 (it was April 11., at 14.41 o´clock) I pimped my rudder ...
 

 
... but what has it to do with my actual build?
 
Ok, here we go. Nicely into the groove, I wanted to do the rudder pendants. Realised that the eyebolt to hold them - fixed somehow years ago and now hidden underneath the port lid and therefor inaccessible - and replaced it beside the port on stemwards. Fixed the pendants as seen on the Vic in P., taking care that the sweep of the rudder is not limited by it ...
 

 
... und gleich den fehlenden oberen Beschlag des oberen Fingerlings entdeckt und ergänzt.
 

 
 
One can guess, troubles were already waiting to strike!
 
If one looks close, one can see three things: Why is the pendant dragging the waters? Why is the end of the tiller pointing out that far? And why did me stupid make the rudder blade that high for that now canvas cover can be fixed ?!?
 
Questions over questions ...
 
If you look at the picture before the intermezzo, one can see already the shortened tiller - no easy task as the rudder cant be taken out any more and is only hanging on the fable pintles - and also the rudder blade was shortened by some 5 mm - one can guess also no easy task as the rudder cant be taken out any more and is only hanging on the fable pintles.
 
Both me and the model survived and the pendants were fixed with some freshly repositioned eyebolts as seen on contemporary models and also as described by Lee.
 
The ropes leading to the channels are not the real ones yet - those should have 11 inch (after Steel) as they should hold some things in case of emergency. By the way the same size as the buoy rope!
 

 
So are these enough hints for the question?
 
Cheers, DAniel

Thanks for the information but things have changed.  The finished schooner will be placed where the admiral will see it all the time and she said. . . “I don’t want that other boat with the schooner ! ”  Since I’m making it black and gold for her, I will not be adding the seine boat, for her.
 
Bob

Markus I like the chopsticks device. however I would use a sled rather than the mitre gauge. I realize that you are using a very small saw. and understand the waste issue with regard to production methods. I find that sometimes we follow along a line of thinking that boxes us in, I have done this many times where because I have used a particular tool or method, I seem to be locked into that tool or method and attempt to do the next job or task using it instead of thinking about what the big picture actually requires.
 
As you pointed out using the chisel with the mirrored surface give a perfectly clean 90 degree cut exactly illustrates what I am saying.
 
I am fortunate to have a large number of good tools that I have acquired over many years, and like yourself they are used for much more than model ship building. It has been my personal preference to use larger tools that are capable of cutting small sizes to good tolerances that to attempt to use small tools that are pushed to their limit cutting large stock.
 
All that said I am enjoying seeing your innovative attachments and ideas for this very high quality small machine. 
 
Michael

Maybe the following is more useful for most of you than precision measurments on a precision saw.
Of course, it is not confined to the Byrnes saw, hence a bit off-topic.
 
I usuallyy cut such tiny pieces using a chisel (a mirror sheen on its flat side makes cutting 90° and 45° angles really easy).
But when the Byrnes saw is already on the bench and in use it is very tempting doing such cuts with the new toy...
 
Hence, using "hinged chopsticks" instead of chopping off a fingertip may be a good idea (you may want to click on the pictures to enlarge).
Or simply use a chisel.
 
Cheers,
Markus

Hi Steve,
 
I am not trying to find a fault, but everything in mechanical industry is machined to tolerances, not to "perfection". This is because perfection is a term in relativity. Knowing the magnitude of the tolerances the Byrnes saw is made to may or may not be in your interest, but it is in mine, and probably in other's too.
 
Even if Jud's reply to your post (curiosity is part of my motivation to measure tolerances) is spot on with part of my answer. Inquiring minds want to know, and without this attitude (which is very typical to manhood) we most probably still would shave with a sharp stone which would be prefectly possible as an avid "youtuber" shows here.
 
But for me, there is more to it.
As Jeff from Hobbymill states here it is necessary to use a 0.040" blade for doing precise cuts on stock thicker than 4.5 mm. Now I want to cut 6.5 mm and I would love to use a 0.020" blade to cut evenly thin strips of 1.0 mm, one meter long. Yes, I want to push the limits. Needless to say that this is hardly achieveable by feeding the stock manually, but that will be a task which requires to know the variables, one of them being manufacturing tolerance of parallelism of the blade, another one being stock feed rate, and so on, you get the picture.
 
Now you may ask why I would want to cut such long strips to this accuracy, and you would be correct assuming that it will not be for planking, and maybe not even for ship modelling. I need this accuracy for making herringbone pattern strips used in musical instrument building (see attached picture). When making herringbone strips accuracy is critical for several reasons, one being that an error in thickness will double and a strip sitting in a groove that is 0.2 mm wider than the strip will be plain ugly hence unacceptable. If the saw blade can not constantly "eat away" the error as stock is fed there will be an error of 0.1 mm over the length of a guitar side and this strip would be ready to be binned. Up to now I have thicknessed the strips like it has been done ages ago, using a handplane. But this method takes a high toll regarding waste (shavings) produced. Using a precision saw (0.040" blade) instead of thicknessing strips with a handplane or a thickness sander reduces waste by about 50%.  If I can use a 0.020" blade instead of a 0.040" blade I can reduce waste by another 50% (when cutting 1 mm strips for 2 mm herringbones) which would be great because the material to be cut is not just wood but rather a laborious glue-up of many veneers (similar to plywood, obliquely cut and again glued together). So waste is an issue.
 
I'm sorry that the driving force behind my tolerance measurments is not directly shipmodel related, but all this is really not a question about how many angels can dance on the head of of a pin.

The ad var, the measurements taken and the tools indicate that Francis is a machinist. a tool maker or something along those lines. Don't think he is looking for faults, he's having fun using his interests, knowledge and abilities to explore a machine that he admires.
Keep it up Francis, I'm enjoying and learning from your journey through a good machine while making it do what you want as you go. So far I see no damage to the machine that arrived at you house not long ago.
jud

Sounds to me like it needs adjusting 0.0072° = 0°00'26",  just using the old rifleman's formula, that's almost a half inch at a 100 yards. My total station measures to one second, I can accept a 5' difference between direct and reversed, 26" would indicate the gun needed to be sent in for cleaning and adjustment. That saw has more precision than I would expect, blade distortion because of heat would be greater. Nice dial indicator you have there. Thanks for using it to measure and report on the precision of that saw. Impresses me.
jud

Good afternoon everyone
 
After the excitement of the new build coming up, it was back to the Victory and the hammock netting, 
 
the build as stated before will be in a diorama setting, so the used look continues to apply (lol my excuse for totally getting it all wrong - and looking shabby)
 
some of the netting looks like it needs doing again - but for now i am happy
 
 

the link i posted to lumberyard takes you to the Alfred, and not the Druid which is 1/4 scale - lol i never meant to cause confusion but have done so 
The HMS Druid is a 1776, 20 gun sloop of war. The Druid's seven sheets of plans are in 1/4 inch scale. rigging plans are included. This rigged model is 36 1/2 x 28 1/2 x 13 1/4 when completed. Laser cut parts include keel, keelson, deadwood, stem, stern post, transom, deck beams, rudder and framing jig. The milled stock is framing material, ledges, carlings, wales, sheet stock for cap rails, upper hull planking, hatch coamings and railings.
 
Photos are of the Druid built by Harold Hahn.
 
Timbering sets available in beech, boxwood, cherry, maple and swiss pear.
 
click on image below for a larger view
 

I answer to themadchemist but also tmc or just plain Keith, which will save on typing. Just don't call me late for supper   
 
Actually one of the best things one can do is sleep on an idea. Any time I try and push through anything I haven't thought out well, it seems I just make a mess I have to re-fix once I wake up the next day.
 
Rushing seems to slow things down.

Great save Jesse - and welcome to a very large club! The fore Topgallant mast on my Victory has TWO breaks in it. I would certainly recommend using epoxy if you have the misfortune to do something similar in the future. The epoxy will be stronger than the original wood! This is how I fixed the second break on mine.

I had a cow, but it was for DINNER  
with mushrooms and zucchini.
 
I understand the Lyme issue problems unfortunately.  That last storm pressure front caused a bloom.
 
Nice save Jesse. There really isn't nothing quite like that feeling in your gut when that happens. Luckily only you and us will know. I know what you mean with the CA, seems once it doesn't work, it then won't stick to it's self. I bought some fast acting epoxy for just such occasions, the hour stuff wasn't cutting it on unclampable stuff, so I found some 5 minute. Luckily I haven't needed it. YET!
 

 

It's nothing new that the Byrnes saw is ready to use out of the box, ready to do precision cuts. No doubt about that, and I honestly have to say that I was as impressed as many other before me were.
 
And yet, I wanted to know how precise it is. "Very precise" is one thing, and attaching some numbers that describe the precision is another one. So I thought I would use the classical approach for measuring parallelism between the blade and the miter slots (measure the distance of the same blade tooth at the same height above the table at the rear (rising) and front position, see first attached picture). Well, this is easier said than done because it turned out that the measuring device by itself interferes, so that I made as many measurements until a clear majority of the results coincided.
 
The numbers I got are approximately 0.0075 millimeters (that is 3/4 of 1/100 mm) deviation over a distance of 60 mm, which is the same as 0.125 mm (1.25 tenth) over 1 meter, which translates to an angle of 0.0072° off perfectly parallel. I find it pretty hard to imagine such a shallow angle, and I can't help thinking that this "error" has very few if any impact at all on real cutting action when using the saw. For example, any slightly uneven pressure from the push sticks will create an error that is easily about ten times bigger than the blade alignment tolerance I have measured.
 
In the following pictures you can further see my newest addition to the saw, which is a sandpaper lined wooden frame that pops into precise position over the miter extension, which helps to avoid that the work piece moves while (or before) being cut. Of course I could have glued the sandpaper directly onto the miter extension, but sometimes it may be necessary to lay a finished surface against the miter extension and in this case having the latter one lined with sandpaper would be less than ideal. Of course I also made a length stop which fits the "sandpaper-frame".
 
Thanks for reading and watching.
 
- Markus