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HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

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Late summer 1805, the sun is burning inexorably from above, the wind is completely asleep, the sea is smooth as glass.

The dispatches have already been exchanged. The master of the small cutter has just returned to his tiny vessel. Behind it there is towering the enormously massiv silhouette of the huge black and ocher striped three decker. Through the open gunports the lashed up guns can be seen. Also the officers' cabins ports are wide opened by the order of the Captain's to ensure an optimal ventilation of the hot and steamy lower decks.

Clatter of activity on some guns being ran out cuts through the silence. The rumble of the heavy guns rolling over the decks and the trampling of countless bare feet and the short shouted commands supported by a multitude of hand signs originate from the ordered gundrill for new gun crews and their officers. In competition between the three decks they are fighting for the fastest rate of firing. The rest of the ships crew is occupied with cleaning and mending duties. The holystone are scratching on the decks.

Above all the sails hang slack in their yards. No breath of wind moves them. They are nestled heavily over stays and fighting tops. The captain took advantage of the hot calm to put up all the canvas possible for airing. One of the studdingsails is taken in, the spar tied up with its inner end against the shrouds, in order to mend something on its fittings. Sitting on a swing seat pendent from the fore top, a crew member just is finishing painting over with ocher the originally black coloured mast loops.

On the poop Captain Hardy monitors the young cadets´ training in navigation, supported by Lord Nelson, who uses the opportunity to entertain the cadets with stories of his actions and the ideas of his tactical concepts.

But in the back of everybodys mind there is just one question - When will there be wind again ...
Edited by dafi
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Once upon a time ...


Better saying in 2002 I started my Victory as a side project to my Soleil Royal. The next years I finished painting the sides, fixed the Stern and the galleries fixed the lower gundeck and worked on the side entry ports an the steps – even though I personally believe they weren´t there at Trafalgar, it is s toooooo nice detail to skip :-) Also fixed plenty of small details that I will still show here.


Came start of end of 2008 and I got my Soleil mostly finished and – more important – got my working space right. and this is where the craziness startet. So please give me  some time to slowly catch up and put you up to the story:


This was the state in end of 2008:




This is the state a mere 2 years later.




And now in 2013 ... still working on the lower deck ...




What happend before, in between and what is still to come will be part of this story ...



Greetings Daniel

Edited by dafi
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So let the story unfold :-)


First of all is a good research, changes are based on the usual suspects: "HMS Victory" from Alan McGowan," The 100-Gun Ship Victory (Anatomy of the Ship Series") by John McKay and lots more books. I had three visits on the ship, one guided tour with a handsome officer who had to answer all my curious questions: poor bloke ;-)


Therefore I have tons of pictures in the various stages of the presentation of the ship: sterndavits yes-no, namesign with cartouche and without, hammok nettings natural or black, chainplates yellow-black and pure black and so on ...


I tend not to be a rivet counter and take my artistic freedom on what I call "my" interpretation of the model, but I usually try to research facts as best as I can and be able to relate onto reliable sources.


But you know it is easy to build a Victory that is close to the original: one just has to know what day, best to know the hour as things sometimes change fast ... 


The changes of the pre 2008 period were:


Side entry and first version of the steps




The painting was done with Humbrol/Revell and not really cleand up yet.


To get even distance I used a Dremel in a stand with a 1 mm milling cutter




The painting was done with Revell/Humbrol but not cleand up yet. Then came a break that I took to reconsider a lot of details.
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The following period was my own research for how far I would like to go in the details.


Most time went into the chainplates, as I don´t like the photo etched parts to much because of their flatness and as I could not find in those days any reference on the internet onto how to massproduce these parts in a sufficient quality. I had to learn how to solder and I finally got the results that I was searching for:


Hellers interpretation of the chainplates im memoriam:




and my interpretation on a test piece






Further came the cannons with all necessairy bolts and breeching rings ...




... and the carronades with wheels and elevation screw






The chimney got the handles and the frontcover and the belfry it´s handle




One big decision was taken at this stage too: the lower gundeck got it´s riding bitts, manger and the pumps and will still recieve full traetment :-)




The last of the "normal" adaptations was to try out the selfadhesive Tiffany copper foil for the copperworks which worked marvellously and will be used. The picture does not pay justice to the apparence.




At this moment, the directions for me were set :-)
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I was about to begin the coppering, when I got suddenly fed up with the omnipresent woodgrain imitation and my old painting efforts. Decision was taken on the second and the Proxxon pen sander started to do his job. Everybody called me crazy! They were right ;-)


When I bought the model I loved the structure, as it realllllllly looked like wood to me; At least at the start. But then I got more and more irritated about it. Just look at the real thing: any wood structure to be seen apart from the lower gundeck? And plenty of people already complained for as long as I remember about the overdone structures, but actually I never saw a picture of a model with sanded down surfaces. OK, today I know why, as it was a hell of a job as I was not able to remove all of the applications that were already fixed. 


But once this step taken it opened up a whole new world, as all parts were now subject of rethinking and redoing – no more prisoners :-)


The poor lady looked a little bit wrecked in the meantime






What a pityful appearence! My god, I got bashed by the other ones in the forums ...


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Another reason of the action was that I was already thinking of reworking the gunport rigols. I now was free to find a new solution for this: first tests proved the right direction and the risk of sanding them without having a solution yet was luckily justified: On the left the original one.




The mass production was fiddled out:




Sanding down a ABS L-formed stripe from 2 on 2 mm (possibly Evergreen 292 2mmx2mmx0,4mm) onto 1 on 1 mm (picture at 4 o´clock) using a 0,5 mm styrene laid on the inside as gauge, pressing them in a template (picture at 8 o´clock), putting right length (picture at 10 o´clock) and sorting them (picture at 2 o´clock)
the ones for the upper decks were cut in the middle and then bent upwards with pointed tweezers into the right shape and glued onto the hull two parts.


Here the real tings on the living object:








As you can also see, the inside of the gunports were lined with 0,5 mm sheet ABS to give crisp forms.



PS: McKay speaks of "Wriggles", usually I know them as rigols: who is right or what is the more common english expression?


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As I already damaged the original painting it was  no more thinking as I discoverd the following: The stern ports are far too high and went straight into the deck framing. On top of it the original flow of the stern planking looked strange on the model.


So I decided to put the ports lower and also to lower the moulding for about 3 mm.




On the left the new position, right the delivered one. For the moulding I used wood profiled with a shaped razor blade. It made a tremendous difference onto the now gracious lines of the stern!


Once on the go I looked at the window glazing bars that look quite like Alcatraz: No escape possible! As we know they were not part of the structural integrety of the stern and the galleries I made some tests in filing them down, what worked unexpectedly easily. I use a small file of about 1£ and sanded away the sides untill the width was about 1 mm. One has simpely to work without pressure: No pressure from the file onto the part and no presure from the mind onto the "Oh I have to finish soon!"! The thickness was alternately reduced by scraping carefully with the back of a old scalpel. The with is now about 3 to 5 tenth/mm


The file is to be seen on the far left:




The results were amazing! Here are some stages:




Not all windows done yet for comparisson. A detail that is difficult to see on the picture: on the lowest row of windows, the windows of the cabin have the lower 2/3rds steped back for the sliding mechanism.




and before and after:




And in sitiu






The glazing is made of transparent foil for overhaed projector presentations. Works well!


Warning: There will be soon posted some questions about the stern in stern section thread :-)
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Next came the lower gundeck:


New elm tree pumps:




The cain pumps




The capstans



Manger and riding bits






The overviews






The pillars will still come and there is in the moment the question how the ancer cables and the mesanger will be presented: manger up/down, where doe the messanger go exately, loops over the riding bits etc ...
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One feature on my list of major changes are the decks: That I am not a fan any more of the wood structures I mentioned already, didn´t I ? 




Consequentely this applied for the deck planking too - off course!


The idea is to replace the visible decks by real wood: Painted wood in plastic, visible woob in real wood. Tests were carried out to find the suitable technic and hre are the results:














So I can easily show the 3- and 4-but-shift system for the planking including the waterway, whitch will be a great addition to the detailing :-)


I think, the two materials work great together and give a nice feeling to the ensemble :-) Looking already forewards for the first visible deck.


This addition of materials would also apply to the masts and spars, whitch by the way will replace the too flexible plastic parts of the top rigging


Be warned: There are a lot of questions upon the deck planking coming up :-)

Edited by dafi
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I retook the entry ports and reworked the steps:




The crew went happy as they got redefined toilet seats :-) No one to fall through the too big holes any more ;-)




The beakhaed grating got its supporting structure following the frames plan and the small slides are implemented to save the gammoning from the sailors shi..... ;-)




The stem got the splitlines of the single parts that it was composed from. Impossible with the once horizontal woodstructure ;-)




And the entry ports got some facimilie paneling painting





And finally I was able to redo the painting. Hallelulja!








And finally the overview that looks on the first look so much like 6 month ago!


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It was a funny last months working and it was surprising. Here are the results of all the work: So close to each other the normal peoples eyes and yet far beyond!


To see and feel the differences I did some small montages. Just try to find out by yourselves, what is the old and what is the new:












And here the story was really beginning to take off,  to speak in the words of Buzz Lightyear: To HMS Victory and beyond!


Greetings Daniel

Edited by dafi
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Hi Daniel,


Nice to see your entertaining log back up.

Edited by gjdale
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Hi Daniel,


Good to see you're back and putting your log up.

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans                             Triton Cross-Section   

                                                                                                                       USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War  _(Gallery) Build Log

                                                                                Wasa (Gallery)

                                                                                                                        HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               


Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         



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My pleasure Sirs :-)


It is fun to go back in time and to see the classical attempt in the start. Some details to be supered, but still good old oob.


When I startet my first build log in the german Wettringer forum in February 2010, I already named it ... and beyond, but never would have guessed to where this journey would lead me ...


... and I still do not know yet ;-)


So enjoy, Daniel

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I actually fixed the first rows of copper on this weekend. Here are some impressions:
It is nice to see the difference between the new material and the old paint. It was good to have the paint underneath, as to make minimal gaps not too visible :-)
I use masking tape to protekt the black paint from the glue, otherwise it will take out good chunks - just guess how I found out :-(
BTW: The glory for bringing this ingenious material to my attention belongs to a chap in a german forum, who presented this technik on a wooden Santissima Trinidad.
the copper is rather cheap icon_smile.gif Look in the internet for suppliers of Tiffany lamp builders, you need two rolls of 4 mm, self adhesive.

The first supplier to pop up in google is this one: 
And there are plenty more! Check the prices and delivery charges.

The tape belongs to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_came_ ... _glasswork

I use colors from Citadel that usually is used for World of Warcraft. 
Chaos Black 61-51
Skull White 61-54
Enchanted blue 61-34
Scorched Brown 61-12 (dark brown)
Iyanden Darksun 68-04 (Yellow)
Mechrite Red 68-01 (Red Earth)
(oh I love the other names like "Red Gore", "Vomit Brown", "Rotting Flesh" und "Graveyard Earth")

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catal ... ints-tools

These colours are great and they don´t smell. I have to build in the living room and so my family does not moan any more!

Jep, you got me, for the lower gundeck I used balsa: easy to work with, a razor blade and some sanding paper is all the tools you need. The poor quality of the surface is no problem in the dark dungeons of this deck icon_wink.gif

For the wooden deck this will be very time consuming and needs also skills on wood working. So be careful! Anyway, first always go for the basic work and don´t get lost in the details! First the hull has to be ready, befor one should think of the details! I learned my lesson too, how to focus onto the next step. Not that you have just lovely details, but the ship is missing icon_smile.gif
Greetings Daniel
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Thank you Blue Ensign for making me aware of the wrong position of the ancer shoes!


To see how much it affects the rigging of the ancer I just had a test to see if a change is nescessairy. Therefore I fixed a second shoe on the appropriate position.




The first rigging shows clearly how much the ancer is hanging to the front




The new position makes much more sense




This means amputation :-) - and I just finished painting this area!




And the fixing of a new shoe.



Question: Most of the literature shows the shoe with a slot for the ancer. Since the last restauration this one disappeared. Does any body has a hint about this? 


I also fixed the slots on the cathead.







Greetings, Daniel
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Originally ...


... I just wanted to do fix the preventer chainplates and the deadeyes from the main channels. Everything was already prepared, I closed the uneven holes of the  Krick deadeyes and sanded them, when I realised - as it is called in newspeach - two challanges: due to the size and the convex shape of the deadeyes all the drilling helps that I planned did not work. Now I know why they are drilled the way they are :-( Secondly - as Maurice always warns - I realised, that I wouldn´t be able to clean up any more the portholes behind the deadeyes after fixing the doubling of the wall of the quarter deck.


Ok, let the deadeyes drop dead and do something completely different as intermezzo:


Red is the template to fix the new moulding symmetrically ...




... fixing bits and pieces. One knighthead from the deck is also fixed on the wall ...




... and everything in place :-).




Ok, so I can go back and play with my deadeyes ...


Greetings, Daniel
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And now something completelydifferent: the larch ...


It took me ages to develop the way of doing the chain plates as I did not find any documentation on the internet by the time that I was trying to find out how to do it. Tried lot of work arounds as I did not know how to mass produce in a satisfactory way and tried to avoid soldering which I never really did before. On the other hand I did not want any photo eched parts because they always look "flat" to me.


But in the end I realised, the only way that worked for me was to produce it the same way the originals work - just a lil´bit smaller :-)


First some 0,5 mm brass wire around the deadeyes ...




... putting it in a template with tree steel pins ...




... cut into lenght and the top part is ready for soldering.




The ring underneath is done out of a couple of rounds around two steel pins ...




... cut in one go - the gap underneath helps to access the lower rounds ...




... first a little bit soggy ...




... and straightend up - The real straightening up will be done just after soldering.




Here comes the lower part for the fore- and main-channels ...




... bent around two steel pins and  squeezed in the middle.




For the bolts I use sewing pins. I grind the diameter on a file by putting the pins into my Dremel and afterwards still reduced the hight. The needed lengh will be around 4 mm. On the left the original needle.




And now the soldering - what a hell to learn :-)


First the lower ring, then sliding it into the loop of the deadeye, putting it into the third hand for soldering ...




... and ready. Looks sooooo easy ;-) The black is not burnt but just some paint :-)




Here the ensemble is already in place, the part that is ment to go into the hole of the hull is lenghend in its place and bent ...




... putten into the hole and the needle forced in with it. Take a thread and check direction and angle. Secure it with a drop of superglue. 






A package of tree with different lengths.




That is when I realized that the used Krick-deadeyes were drilled too unevenly for my taste ... As I did not want to discard my painfully soldered parts and get better deadeyes, I startet closing the holes with toothpicks and filed them even. 




Just then I realized that because of the size and curved surface the planned drilling templates did not work :-(

At least I know by now why they those bastards are drilled the way that they are ...


OK, good old solid handwork, putting each part into the vise and mark the central line for the two middle holes ...




... and with patience, a template and a good eye drill the preliminary holes with 0,5 mm, set the third hole with a fresh eye ...




... and finish the drilling with 0,8 mm.




I usually drill small holes by hand with the drill fixed on a round material as it gives far more control as any machine! .


Now came the tricky part of straightening everything up, worked best upon a cutterblade, even the smallest loops :-)






And finally I had a complete set of deadeyes and preventer plates for the main-mast channel on my adhesive tape. :-)







... and finally came the montage :-)


First à la nature ...




... then with a little bit of colour ...








... and it looks like it was all simple! ;-)


I also added the missing fitht support bracket to the channel and also the missing small deadeye n# 8 which unfortunately is too tight and bends the channel. It will be replaced upon a later occasion. I see by now, that the channels would have had needed the thickness to be increased by 0,5 mm or more. ****, but thats too late by now, even for me ;-)


Liebe Grüße, Daniel
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Hy-ho you victorian people,


as requested it is my honour to present my little zoo:




As I needed a little rest from the chainplates (some more 60% of work to be done) I started to enjoy myself on the figurehead. It turned out in the details much more like an old chewing gum, as dear Derek did put it in one of his posts. 

The only usable items were the blue lion, the horse and the harpe. The other ones would not turn out successfully by just painting them. So I started to scratch off the old lionblobs - you still can see some on the upper fields ...




... I carved some new tree lions for the now empty lower left field (seen the heraldic way) and still five smaller one for the other places ...




... the bigger red one allowed even more details ...




... still adding the crown of Charlmagne and the dukes hat (Hanover wasn´t a kingdome yet) ...

... the Cherubs got their arms freed from the bodytrap as they were molded in one go ...




... and it looks a little bit more worthy, doesn´t it?


The crown I use is the original Heller-one - or at least more original than most of the parts I build in ;-) 


I did cut off the top arms, hollowed the inside of the base and thinned out the arms of the top. Like this I got an appearance that I can easily live with. As I don´t have too much footage of the top of the crown due to the angle most pictures are taken, I also do not know what to change without basing it on pure guessing.





To cite Derek once more "Looks like Nelsons navy also gave up with the detailed rivet counting on the 1 to 1 with the Crown of Charlegmagne." I tried to capture that special feeling and stay in the traditions by ommiting the red hearts around the blue lion - after all we still have a martial ship and not "Hello Kitty" :-)


But perhaps these hearts were the reason that at Trafalgar the french first lost their "contenance" and then the battle ;-)


Who knows ?!?


Beste Grüße, Daniel

Edited by dafi
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Do not worry B.E. ...


I´ve got good sources :-)



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In the meantime I took the modelmaking to the extrems: The extrem front, the extreme button and the extrem aft ;-)


Lets start with the extreme button:






I finally finished the coppering. Also the false keel is placed. 












Then I continued on the extrem aft: The heller sternpost is flat and the rudder is far off. Does not have to be ;-)



So cutting off the old hinges and glueing a strip of Ureol onto the sternpost ...












... file it triangular ...












... and copper it. See the false keel. 












The horizontal cuts were opened for new hinges. Made out of 1mm sheet. Just a look into my small workshop:



Small parts always in line on self adhesive tape, using a old blade to keep even distance to the top ...












... carefully drilled and cut still being placed on the tape ...












... and putting the whole into the slots of the sternpost.












The rudder was reshaped, got new bolts and fittings ...












... a little bit of colour and some more coppering ...












... and being put in place.












Still missing some cuts on the rudders copper to show dimensions of the copper plates.














Edited by dafi
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... and on to the extreme front:




The decoration in place (the net was just a trial)...




... lettering is still missing, perhaps the photoetched, let´s see.




The beakhead bulkhead (one of my favourite technical terms) got a beam on decklevel the is need for keeping the construction stable. Doors will come at a later stage as everything is only snaped in place. The posts got small holes for the for the rigging ...




... and the outer most post was recreated as it is needed for the rail.




The tree-slotted cathead was shown already, has its crown and now the cleat is much thinner, thanks for the detail Pete! :-)




Also finished port sides channels, halftime, hourray!





Liebe Grüße, Daniel
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I managed to use sone free time to put some things onto the road this weekend.


Lately some new and interesting version on replacing the aft nameplate popped up here. I already had prepared yet another version using plottcutted car adhesive foil


Prepared the size on the computer, and send it to the manufacturer, got it back ready to use and putted on place. The colour applied in thin dry layers ...




... and a couragous pull ...




... and it already looks great :-)




First toches of paint ont the frames, a set of eight boltrings ...




... and finishing the paint, the pillars and the decoration will still take a little bit.


I did some more trials on the nets, using mosquito nets. Good base to continue the research.




The garlic nets proofed to be to unstable. Now we have garlic for the rest of the year ...




And a small detail I was looking foreward already for a long time: the holes for the elmtree pumps - could not resist putting them :-)




Gruß, Daniel
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Hy-ho-Victory-go :-)


Took some time while the last substancial entry. In the meantime I was fixing some sink marks ...




... and get the right material for the nettings, thanks Maurice!:




(in the background you can see the old flynet)


And then inally this weekend ...


... back to the end of the ship :-)


Got the balusters and decoration primed properly and had to think about replacing the feathers. As there is nothing to disdinguished at the Livesays drawing I draw the conclusion, that usually in the middle of the coat of arms should be a crown. This can also be seen at the side entrance. Bingo. So I had an idea what to build :-)




Then started the acentuation of the balusters of the stern: See the difference it makes as the not yet done part in the bottom left looks really flat.




Looks a little bit chaotic in this immense close-up, but at original size this gives a great effect of depth. 




The coat of armes with the new made crown ...






(the white bits is to cover the original holes for the lamps which I realised a little bit too late)


... and of course the whole in one go :-)




Amicalement, Daniel
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Hello B.E., it is a mystery to me too, why even the best 1805 models are showing the feathers of wales, thet came just about 1823 from the HMS Prince of Wales when she was demolished ...


Even though the Livesay drawing is undefined in this area, one of the common items on this place is the crown. So it was a natural choice to me, as the side entrance port shows the same motive.


As the photographs of 1900 show a completely different stern, my personal conjecture is, that in the 1930 reconstruction, the Livesay drawings were used as guide.


Cheers, Daniel

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Very nice work. Can you give more information about how you created the template for the name on the stern.  It really turned out nice.  I can't believe this version of the kit.  Really exceptional work!

Thanks for sharing!


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Hello Marc and Greg, my pleasure, thank you :-)


The nameplate is not a Heller bug, it represents the nameplate as it was on display while the model was made :-0


The new nameplate was designed on the computer and then cut out in a shop that does the foils for car branding or window displays. Best to have 3 to try out first on an old model.


Regards, Daniel

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