Galley Washington Cannon...where to get them (edited by admin)

[J11D10A6]

I am preparing to start construction of the Galley Washington. I am looking for a site where I  can purchase the cannon for the model. The sites I have seen so far do not have the proper scale.  Can anyone help. Thank you.

[mtaylor]

Do you have a length or dimensions?  It might help us help you.

[Chuck Seiler]

J11,

 

    Take a look at the Lumber Yard.  They have a larger variety of guns than Chuck (Syren).  The downside is that Dave (co-owner) is out of circulation for awhile and getting the guns quickly may be an issue if they are not already made.  I need to check my plans to refresh what scale and which size guns.  As I recall, there was a mishmash.

[J11D10A6]

Yes I have the plans I purchased from NGR. The scale is 1:48. There are 6-Swivel guns, 2-4 Pounder guns, 1-9 Pounder gun, 1- 18 Pounder gun, 1- 12 Pounder gun, 1-6 Pounder gun.  I can take the measurements from the plans tomorrow if you need them. Thanks for your help.

[Chuck Seiler]

Lumber Yard has swivels, 6lb, 9lb, 12lb and 18lb in 1/4 scale (1:48)  6lb in 3/16 scale MAY be close to the right size.

 

Oh, wait, they do have 4# in that scale.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Chuck Seiler

[J11D10A6]

Yes I did see the canon at the lumber yard. The measurements seem to be different. Two examples are the 4 pounder. The drawings for the galley has it at approxamintly 1" the lumber yard has it listed at 1 23/64". the 18 pounder is the same the drawing is at 1 3/4" the lumber yard has it listed at 2 15/64". I don't know why. Could be the weight of the canon ball does not determine the length of the barrel. The difference in the  in the measurement  is the same for all the rest of the canon. If I could use a metal lath I would have no problem.  I do really appreciate all your help. Thanks.

[jud]

The easiest way to resolve the issue is to carefully apply some white-out to the plans over the guns. When dry, accurately redraw the guns to match what is available. Your model will match the plans.      

jud

Edited February 1, 2017 by jud

[Chuck Seiler]

DOH!!!

[J11D10A6]

If it were only that simple.

[J11D10A6]

Is there a company or an individual that would do custom turnings? Would be interested if the price were right. Just a thought. I have no other ideas. I just want to thank you guys for taking the time to answer my question.

[John Garnish]

Yes I did see the canon at the lumber yard. The measurements seem to be different. Two examples are the 4 pounder. The drawings for the galley has it at approxamintly 1" the lumber yard has it listed at 1 23/64". the 18 pounder is the same the drawing is at 1 3/4" the lumber yard has it listed at 2 15/64". I don't know why. Could be the weight of the canon ball does not determine the length of the barrel. The difference in the  in the measurement  is the same for all the rest of the canon. If I could use a metal lath I would have no problem.  I do really appreciate all your help. Thanks.

 

There was not a direct relationship between bore and length, because there were several different patterns.  However, you won't go far wrong if you follow Harold Hahn's data from "Ships of the American Revolution and their Models".  A copy of the relevant page is attached, with a spreadsheet that I generated from it.

 

cannon dimensions.pdf

 

Best of luck.

[J11D10A6]

Thank you for the information. Very helpful.

[J11D10A6]

So it is now Feb. 7th. No response to my question. Guess what I'll do is simply go ahead with the construction and leave out the cannon. I do thank everyone who tried to help. Kudos. Thanks for all your help. Bob 

[Chuck Seiler]

We kind of did.  If you take a look at the cannon dimensions John sent, you the 4 pounder pencils out at 1.72" and the 18 pounder at 2.22".  The Lumberyard guns are 1.35" and 2.24".  Pretty close.  If you are looking for exact, forget about it unless you mill your own.

[jbshan]

A particular caliber (size of bore) gun could come in several lengths.  How sure are you about the exact length and bores of the original guns?

[J11D10A6]

What I am going by is the drawings I purchased from NRG. I have no other information. I did not research it at all. Felt there was no reason to. Bob

[J11D10A6]

I just started construction of the Galley Washington today. It will be quite a while before I would need the cannon. So I'll go on with the build and keep on searching for a company who can do what i need. Thanks again for all your help. I will be in touch incase I need some help in other areas. Bob

[Chuck Seiler]

Bob,

 

    I still recommend going with the Lumberyard guns.  Those are the ones I got for my WASHINGTON build.  I also used them for my PHILADELPHIA build.  They have a good variety.

 

    Taking from a couple of your previous posts, you may not have thought it was necessary to go beyond the plans, but if the plans say one thing and another source says something else, its research time.  (As Kurt says "Research is our middle name".)

 

    Your first assumption is that the plans are correct.  That is  not always the case.  Even in the case of the WASHINGTON plans, as I recall, there was a change in one of the keel butt joints.  We don't know where Jeff (plan designer) got his info on the guns.  I know that he lists WASHINGTON's guns as 18# x 2, 12# x 2, 9# x 2, 4# x 4 based on "Captain's receipt".  Other sources I have seen lists them as  18# x 1, 12# x 1, 9# x 2 and 6# x 6 (Lundberg/ and Naval Documents of the American Revolution).

 

    Joel was correct when he said. "A particular caliber (size of bore) gun could come in several lengths.  How sure are you about the exact length and bores of the original guns?"  Gun sizes for a given weight of ball varied depending on when and where it was made.  French guns were slightly different than British guns.  A gun made in 1700 was different from a gun made in 1800.  As I recall, some of the guns in the American fleet came from Fort Ticonderoga. Some of those had been there since the French/Indian wars...and they were old then.  You will never know how large a gun was on a particular ship unless (a) it was cited in some original source or (b it is around today (like the PHILADELPHIA) and can be measured.

 

   Absent those sources, the Hahn dimensions posted above are as good a place to start as any.  I created a table of gun vs length vs scale at 1/4 , scale at 3/16 and size of guns offered by Lumberyard (1/4) and Syren (Chuck P)(3/16).  I included the 3/16 Syren info so we can see how Chuck's guns compare to the Hahn dimensions.

 

 

 

   By looking at the chart you can determine if the sizes are close enough or not.  In my case, I determined they were close enough...who is going to tell you different?  Having said that, if you decide to get them, I would start the process now.  Lumberyard operates at a slower pace and has never been confused with Amazon.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Chuck Seiler

[J11D10A6]

Chuck, Thank you for your reply. I haven't been on in about a week. Thank you for all the information. I will try the Lumberyard. Based on your experience I feel it will work. Thanks for the heads up about the Lumberyard. I ordered from them before. Bob

[Roger Pellett]

Before you start building your model I suggest that you go to the build log for this same vessel posted by Yampsterman. On page 10, you will find comments that I made regarding the correctness (not the accuracy) of the NRG plans. While the plans are beautifully drawn, I believe that they are based on incomplete research. My research indicates that they reflect the ship after capture by the British and used as an armed transport.

 

Roger