Rigging cannons without blocks

[DocBlake]

For those of us who hate to rig cannons, here's a great idea. I've not yet seen this method of securing a cannon when not in use. The train tackles are attached to the carriage and bulwark by hooks, so they can be removed. The breeching line is then lashed across the top of  the cannon barrel. Slick!

[jud]

Having chased a fork lift back and forth in the Tank Deck of the Clark County LST 601. Also on several occasions called out of my rack to secure 8"55 projectiles sliding back an forth in the shell deck of Turret 2 aboard the Helena CA 75, Securing hardware were cables with cam over locks installed when the ship was built, that had stretched and wore to the point they could release themselves during rough seas and allow the projectiles to slide, fall over and set about knocking their buddies loose. We did use 1/4" sisal as insurance but constant working would also fail. Between the inner non rotating barrette and the outer barrette was storage for a single row of projectiles clear around the turret, access through a small door in the shell deck bulkhead, a hanging track with a truck riding on it equipped with a chain fall to handle those projectiles in the crowded space, the truck had a hand operated brake which would work loose and the truck and chain fall with its hook would end up rolling around and around on its endless track, sounded like a train, have to get a 6 X 6 timber from the repair locker and jam it in through that noted door to stop the thing, it often splintered that timber, but after the crash you could grab the rolling stock and get it secured. Have chased other items adrift at sea, I made a habit observing how items are secured at sea that I was around for self preservation, don't think the gun as shown is rigged for sea, needs more lashings and some wheel chocks, securing for sea is a big deal. I do like seeing more and more data being revealed about how things were done and questions asked, looks to me like quite a few modelers have surpassed the museums as the authority for research, making sites like this one a world treasure of information, not catalogs yet, suspect that is coming. Photo, replacing cooling water, left gun in use, often loaders would help load the opposite gun as this one is doing, the clip indicates which gun those 4 rounds are intended for. Time to get a crew working to rearm this gun mount.

[DocBlake]

I'm sure you're right about the chocks, Jud.  If you don't like rigging train tackle and gluing down loops of excess train tackle line, this treatment really simplifies the whole process.

[jud]

Your model, your choice no complaint about that. For those who have had to tame a runaway mass, they look for practicability in all rigging and securing items for sea, nothing gets loose in calm seas or in the daylight.

Edited December 15, 2018 by jud

[keelhauled]

I've seen some ships with the guns secured parallel to the side (fore/aft facing).  If you look at books for seamanship during the 1700s and 1800s stowed guns on navel ships have the gun tilted all the way up and brought all the way forward and secured up against the hull with the breeching rope as you show.  The period books on seamanship written for midshipmen are great references for how the ships and equipment were operated - including how to stow equipment and even how to step new masts while at sea.

Marc

[keelhauled]

I should have been more clear.  The stowed gun doesn't have the barrel running through the hull/bulwark.  The attached image of the constitution's gun has a reference to this method at the top of the image showing the muzzle up against the hull and the made fast to the ring above.

 

If you need a better image of this, let me know and I'll take a picture from one of the books

best

marc

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by keelhauled

[keelhauled]

Saw this photo from the Victory.  Thought you might like to see it.

 

[Chuck Seiler]

I don't think the gun would be stowed in that manner with the gunports open and the barrel extending beyond the bulwark.  On a model it might be okay.  I like it!

[keelhauled]

Hi Chuck,

I agree with you.  From everything I've read it would be stowed inboard with the barrel elevated and made fast to the bolt and muzzle against the hull as in the diagram in my earlier post.  however, I thought Dave might like to see the breech rope actually rigged as in his drawing.  I think that if you don't want to rig the tackle, then it might be a nice alternative for adding some detail. 

Marc

 

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Regarding this common depiction of the hauling end of the tackle wrapped around and around the falls of the tackle: I don’t believe this represents real world use. This is my opinion based on my own experience-not with cannon but with tackle on ships in general. This laborious and unnecessary technique of tightly wrapping is bad for the rope and too time consuming to do and undo. Sure I could see a few frapping tuns used around the fall, which would keep the fall from fouling on stuff, but the entire line? No. Extra length would be gasket coiled, as extra line not intended for use for extended periods always is aboard ship. 

Im certain that the photos depicting this practice are all taken on museum ships which are open to the public. In the context of a museum display which can be accessed by the public it would make sense to isolate the entire length of the tackle falls under turns of the hauling part of the line as this prevents kids or miscreants from tugging on or  otherwise misusing the museum artifact. Believe me: if there was a free hauling part available on any tackle anywhere on any museum ship, hundreds of people each day would be doing their best to haul on it!  But on a real ship the tackle won’t need that kind of insurance represented by the elaborate wrapping. 

[Chuck Seiler]

JCF,

 

    Agreed, to some degree, but it would work well on a model in that you could make a bunch of these off model and just attached them to the eyebolts once the gun is installed.

[jud]

1 hour ago, JerseyCity Frankie said:

Regarding this common depiction of the hauling end of the tackle wrapped around and around the falls of the tackle: I don’t believe this represents real world use. This is my opinion based on my own experience-not with cannon but with tackle on ships in general. This laborious and unnecessary technique of tightly wrapping is bad for the rope and too time consuming to do and undo. Sure I could see a few frapping tuns used around the fall, which would keep the fall from fouling on stuff, but the entire line? No. Extra length would be gasket coiled, as extra line not intended for use for extended periods always is aboard ship. 

Im certain that the photos depicting this practice are all taken on museum ships which are open to the public. In the context of a museum display which can be accessed by the public it would make sense to isolate the entire length of the tackle falls under turns of the hauling part of the line as this prevents kids or miscreants from tugging on or  otherwise misusing the museum artifact. Believe me: if there was a free hauling part available on any tackle anywhere on any museum ship, hundreds of people each day would be doing their best to haul on it!  But on a real ship the tackle won’t need that kind of insurance represented by the elaborate wrapping. 

Fully agree. I would expect to see a lot of small stuff being used around these guns when stowed for sea, regardless if the guns were inboard or protruding out a port with the doors open or a half port. Even in the 60's Navy, I found Small Stuff very handy to keep around, never was a problem cutting it loose to get out of the way. I would expect the Gun Tackle to be made up and held up off the deck using small stuff after flaking, coiling or just routed around gun and carriage to git it up and off the deck. Most carried knives just as it used to be, those topside when I was in the Navy carried knives, I carried 2, pocket knife in my pocket, a Stockman type and a Case or Buck on my belt in a leather case, in RVN I carried a Buck Sheath knife on my belt. can see it in the photo.

Edited December 16, 2018 by jud