Which Glue: cooper wire on wood

[MESSIS]

My model's blocks are glued on the wooden masts and yards with a 0.3 and 0.5 mm cooper wire.Also the chainplates.

 

Hopefully some one can help me out.

 

How can I do that so that the bond after rigging still resists the needed rigging strength?

Edited December 24, 2018 by MESSIS

[bogeygolpher]

I drilled holes in the mast as well as on the chainplates that allowed little or no slop room ( I wanted to force the twisted brass wire into the holes).  After trimming the wire, I filled the holes with thick CA then positioned the blocks in them and allowed the CA to dry for 24 hours.  I never had one detach later.

[MESSIS]

Thank you Sir for your time and your very useful help.

Merry Christmas

Christos

[bogeygolpher]

Christos,

 

It is indeed my pleasure to be able to pass on the lessons I have learned from members of this site as well as those based on my personal experience.

Enjoy the hobby.

 

Happy Holidays to you.

[wefalck]

Whenever there is a force on a part, one should indeed go for a mechanical connection as well and not just glueing. It is always a good idea to look at how it is done on the prototype. 

[MESSIS]

I did.... but couldnt tell through the pictures.

[MESSIS]

An idea its a thin steal wire, lets say 0,25mm, that will carry the blocks and be tightden  around the mast.... though am not very thrilled with that due to the look of the wire around the mast.

[bogeygolpher]

If you are unsure about the CA holding the blocks in place use 5 minute epoxy instead.  Once cured the mast would break before the block would come loose.  However, as I said previously I have built 7 ships and have not had a block secured with thick CA come loose.  I have had the brass wire break because I had wound it too tight.

 

The photo gives me the impression that this is a metal mast which probably meant the blocks were somehow bolted on to the mast in real life.  Very  difficult to simulate in scale and there probably would have been no wrapping involved.

[MESSIS]

@wefalck my old friend thank you for your good and precious advice. I gave to your advice a lot of thought, because its correct and engineering wise "the rule". 

 

@bogeygolpherI believe am going to follow your advice. Its a matter of how the model looks at the end of the day. You are right.... the original ship had metal masts, so again you are right that the blocks were probably bolted.

Am thinking it again and again.... I have considered a lot of weflack's advice, who again is correct, but I think  there isnt any other way out as the use only  of glue. Its an engineering  compromise against the sake of more realistic  picture. 

And if its "glue only", then your process is the best and safest! Thank you again for all your help.

 

Happy new year to both of you and to your families 

Edited December 27, 2018 by MESSIS

[wefalck]

Have a look at how EDT solved this on his YOUNG AMERICA. On steel mast one would have also metal reenforcement bands. They would have eyes that are formed from metal straps. The blocks were shackled to these eyes. I can look up some drawings in a contemporary textbook on this subject over the weekend.

[MESSIS]

@wefalckThank you for coming back. I had a look at Edt's log. I believe you mean the brass bands on the yards... the thing is -if you look the pic above of my build- the blocks look to be directly fixed on the masts,there isnt any ring/band used. In my case there arent any reinforcement bands on the ships masts. See picture.

 

Yes, that would be very nice if you can find any drawings on this.

Edited December 28, 2018 by MESSIS

[thibaultron]

I read an article years ago, about a model of a stationary steam engine at 1/32 scale, complete with every bolt of the original. Doesn't sound hard, until you find out that some of the bolts were 1/4 inch diameter 20 threads per inch, complete with scale hex heads and threads! The guy even made his own taps and dies to make the bolt threads and holes, as well as the wrenches to install them. The wrenches, at least were big enough to use by hand.

[bogeygolpher]

Messis,

 

I completely agree with wefalks engineering point.  However, keep in mind this model, in all probability, is going to be static and certainly not subjected to the same strains and stresses of a working ship.

 

If you are building this on commission for display in a museum then you need to make it as accurate as possible and spare no expenses.  If you are building it to display in your living room who, other than you, will know if any part is completely accurate?  Either way, this is a model and it is in fact a representation and also because of scale it is nearly impossible to construct it exactly the same as a real ship would be built.

 

In the end, this is your ship and your build.  I suggest you do what you feel comfortable with.  Try to enjoy the hobby and don't let it overwhelm you.  

 

[MESSIS]

@thibaultron yes thats a way out... make my own bolts, which if I could sense the undetectable threads and hex heads then maybe I would. But its 1/75 scale meaning that  a M10 bolt has a Φ of 0.14 mm...invisible🤔

 

@bogeygolpher yes thats very sensible, all of what you just wrote to me. I always do keep that in mind. But still I try always to go a step further... if thats possible. Some times it is,some other times it isnt. I think even when its not possible the effort has its own worth!

In this case you and I know  that there is allready a plan "A", which is your process.  If in the weekend I dont come up with a new idea, then plan "A" runs on Monday or maybe better in the new year.

[wefalck]

Messis, I may have mixed up something here, but I thought you were working on the late 19th century Imperial German yacht HOHENZOLLERN. Then one would have found bands with cast-on lugs around the mast, as autogeneous welding was not invented yet.

I suppose you were rather referring to the SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL, which was built in 1966, at a time, when welding had become a commong practice in shipbuilding. It looks, as if she had steel pole-masts with eyes and similar items welded on. These 'eye-bolts' were not bolts, but lugs from bar, that were welded to the mast. I only found this colourful image of this kind of lug:

 

There would be different ways to make them. You could, for instance, take a brass strip and hard-solder as many pins onto the narrow side as you need lugs. Then drill the hole for the shackle-bolt and saw off the invidual lugs. You now can shape the lug, while holding it in a pin-vise.

 

With the pin you can secure your lug in the mast. Drill a tight hole an apply a small amount of CA to it.

 

Depending on the degree of freedom of movement required, either the shackle bot or the shank would go through the eye.

Edited December 28, 2018 by wefalck

[MESSIS]

Thank you for all your effort Wefalck,

 

Ok I see. Please have a look at my sketch and be so kind to comment if I got what you mean correctly.

 

If yes.... that means I need then additionaly a block and a shackle.

 

And lastly. Instead of lug I could also use a wood threaded eyebolt, that would have an exrta strength (thread plus a CA drop)

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by MESSIS

[wefalck]

@Messis, yes, that would be the principle. The lugs, however, would not have these rectangular ends, at least not in the direction of the block or rope. The pin does not need to have thread, a few ridges or incisions though would allow it to key-in better into the wood.

[MESSIS]

@wefalck thank for all your help. It looks still hard to realise due to the small scale. Ill give it a try and if doesnt work I have plan b.

 

Thank you again and wish you again a happy new year.

[No Idea]

Hi Messis - Just a thought; if I was doing this I would twist the copper around the blocks and leave nice long twisted tails just like the drawing.  I would then solder the very ends together to stop them untwisting.

 

Then to fix them to the mast which looks like an aluminium tube, I would place them all on the mast and hold them in place with tape.  Next I would fill the mast with epoxy resin.  This would fix them all at the same time and they would be going no where.

[MESSIS]

@No Idea thank you for all your great suggestions. The masts are not alum tubes. Its wood painted alu silver. Thats the problem. But the idea to solder the twisted Cooper wire its clever!