Sultana by SardonicMeow - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64

[lmagna]

29 minutes ago, SardonicMeow said:

maybe I'll post the DXF files for others to use.

[SardonicMeow]

Working on the transom this time.  My goals include creating a strong surface that the end transom piece can be attached to.  Also, I wanted to ensure that there is some open space behind the transom windows.

 

Here is in innermost piece.

 

 

And the next two pieces.

 

 

And some pictures of how the transom pieces fit together with the aft bulkhead pieces.  Blue lines are the fairing lines that will be scribed on the pieces.

 

Next, as I have been gently reminded, I have to figure out how to deal with the bow of the ship.

 

[SardonicMeow]

I've been trying different ideas for how to deal with the bow.

 

The first option is fairly straightforward.  There are holes in the bulkheads for the bowsprit.  Blue lines are fairing lines that will be scribed on the parts.

 

Option two is a bit more radical.  There are pieces at an angle somewhat analogous to cant frames.  Horizontal pieces matching the curve of the bow will hold them in place.

 

It looks cool, but I don't know if there is any advantage to it.

 

[Overworked724]

21 hours ago, SardonicMeow said:

Ha.  No, let me see if I can make something usable first.  At the end of all of this, if there's interest, maybe I'll post the DXF files for others to use.

 

Love It!  A toast to that happy day!

[Overworked724]

I think the disadvantage to the angled frames is that it would not provide the same support and rigidity for both sides of the ship as a single piece frame. The single frame is also easily squared against the keel or center frame assuring symmetry on both sides.  Another advantage to squared frames is they allow installation of filler blocks much more simply.  The angled frames, once glued in place, could more easily slip or bend out of position, making filler blocks almost a necessity. 

 

Just my two cents. But agreed, they do look cool!

Edited February 28, 2019 by Overworked724

[Overworked724]

I think the idea ofusing a lateral piece to lock the angled frames in place is a interesting idea...it’s probably useful to do this anyway along the entire length of the ship.  It would further reinforce the structure of the squaredframes. 

 

Really neat ideas!  Enjoying this blog.

[SardonicMeow]

2 hours ago, Overworked724 said:

I think the idea ofusing a lateral piece to lock the angled frames in place is a interesting idea...it’s probably useful to do this anyway along the entire length of the ship.  It would further reinforce the structure of the squaredframes.

Yeah, on some of the build logs for Master Korabel kits I noticed that they use a big lateral piece to hold the other pieces, including some angled pieces.  It seemed like a great idea to steal.  But on this ship, it doesn't seem to gain me much.  It would be more appropriate for a ship where the timberheads form stanchions for tall bulwarks with gun ports.  On the Sultana, the bulwarks are really short.  So I think in the end I'll be going with conventional bulkheads all perpendicular to the false keel.

 

[SardonicMeow]

I've decided to go with the bulkheads at the bow that are perpendicular to the false keel.  I have added some extra pieces at the bow.  Blue lines are fairing lines that will be scribed onto the pieces

 

 

Shapes of the stem, keel, sternpost, and rudder were traced from the inboard profile image.

 

 

Bulkheads at the points where the deck level changes were doubled up so that there will be good surfaces where deck planks start and end.

 

There is also a cutout now, partially obscured in this picture, for the hatchway ladder that goes down into the hull.

 

 

And so here is what everything looks like at this point.

 

 

Still to be done:

• design the transom end piece
• it might be nice to laser cut the cap rail at the bow
• add guide marks for the wales and any other useful reference marks

 

Then it's a matter of exporting each element as a DXF and arranging them for the laser cutter.

 

I need to decide soon whether I want to use basswood sheets or some harder wood.  Because there are limitations on the width of hardwood sheets, that will affect how I can arrange the pieces for cutting.

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by SardonicMeow

[Overworked724]

Now...if only I knew what a DXF file was...can I open this in Microsoft Office?  😕 

 

[lmagna]

Probably need Adobe Illustrator to get a 1:1 copy that will not be distorted Patrick

[Overworked724]

1 hour ago, Wallace said:

I like that you are adding your fairing and reference lines onto the hull. I have not built that many kits but I feel that this kind of info is just helpful. A useful thought. You are really thinking ahead on this, nicely done. 

I agree!  That removes a ton of guesswork  done by eyeballing. Also helps inexperienced modelers (me) from over shaping!

 

[SardonicMeow]

Reference marks were added to the scribe lines for each bulkheads (in the same sketches where the fairing lines are drawn).  These reference marks indicate the location of the wales and the bottom of the bulwarks on each bulkhead.

 

 

Next I turned to the end piece for the transom.  After some careful measurement, I determined that the transom outline on the Model Shipways plans seemed to be properly sized.  I scanned the image and brought it into Fusion 360.  So far so good.

 

 

In this image the Model Shipways transom is on the left, and the Chapelle transom on the right.  The general shapes are similar, but the MS transom windows are larger and spaced further apart.  Also, on the MS transom the lines for the recessed portion of the transom are higher.  (There are also some symmetry issues with the MS drawing.)

 

 

So what's correct?  As I mentioned at the start of this build log, I will be using the Sultana replica as the standard.  Fortunately, I found a good picture of the Sultana's transom at the website "829 Southdrive".  Picture by the website author "Baydog".

 

 

 

From this picture, the windows should be fairly small, and the recess line is fairly low.  That makes the Chapelle drawing the closer match.

Following the Chapelle transom and the reference photo, I came up with these two sketches for the two pieces.

 

Solid parts were created in the 3D environment to see how they will look.  (The real parts will be curved.)

 

 

[Tigersteve]

MS should be paying you to re-design their kit!

Steve

[Overworked724]

Right!?  Better yet...since the Sultana plans are open source, I would start your own company with a competitive kit. The MS kit is a piece of flotsam. The only way to do the MS kit is to ignore everything but the solid hull...I think a laser cut plank on bulkhead would be BRILLIANT!!!

 

👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

 

[SardonicMeow]

Thanks for your comments.  But I don't think I'll be quitting my day job just yet.

 

Working on the cap rail at the bow.  First, a fit point spline to match the correct curve.

 

 

Cap rails will be 1/8" / 3.2mm wide.  I use Sketch -> Offset with an offset of 1.6mm to create the inner edge.

 

The offset is repeated to create an edge 1.6mm in the opposite direction.

 

 

The original line is removed and the shape is closed.

 

 

And mirrored.

 

 

Here is the piece roughly in place.  The actual piece will not be flat; it will slope down as it follows the top the bulwarks.

 

 

And here's a big picture of everything.  There is one notable change.  I decided not to include the gun stocks as part of the aft bulkhead pieces.  I realized that I would have to plank around them, which seems like too much trouble.

 

 

And with that, I think I have designed all the pieces that I want.  Now I need to arrange them for the laser cutter.

 

I'm still debating basswood vs. some other wood to use in the laser cutter.

 

[Overworked724]

Just out of curiousity...plank on bulkheads are always a bit of a challenge around the rabbit. Is the keel wide enough trim down to allow a single plank to fit nicely into the rabbit that needs to be shaped without making the keel piece overly thin??  I had this problem when I started the Amati kit for the Lady Nelson. Not certain if it was just me, but a few shipmates at my club said it was a bit of a problem with the kit. 

[SardonicMeow]

1 hour ago, Overworked724 said:

Just out of curiousity...plank on bulkheads are always a bit of a challenge around the rabbit. Is the keel wide enough trim down to allow a single plank to fit nicely into the rabbit that needs to be shaped without making the keel piece overly thin??

I think I have things set up properly for the rabbet.  Have a look at the picture below, which is a view directly from the side.  There is a thin gap between the keel and false keel.  My plan is to put a thin rabbet strip there.  The idea is taken from Chuck's Syren practicum.  Have a look at the diagram on the bottom left of page 4 to see how it's supposed to turn out.  Also, I plan to cut the keel from thicker sheet than the false keel.

[SardonicMeow]

Oh, right.  I'm modeling the Sultana replica, which has a diesel engine.  So I need a cutout in the rudder.

 

After looking at some reference pictures, I tried creating the cutout, which is roughly elliptical.  It didn't look quite right.

 

 

Here is a screencap, cropped and flipped horizontally, from the YouTube video "Sultana Haul Out".

 

I see what's wrong now.  On the replica, the rudder has been extended back to make up for area lost to the cutout.  As a result, the back edge is nearly vertical.  Also, another detail is that the bottom edge of the rudder is higher than the bottom of the keel.  And a little bite will need to be taken out of the sternpost.

 

(Also interesting is that, in 2013 when this was recorded, the Sultana's hull was painted red below the water line.  It was all white when launched.  I don't know when the red color was added and whether or not it's still like that.  I have noticed other changes in the paint job as well.)

 

 

Here is the revised rudder.  The Schooner Sultana book says that the prop is 32 inches in diameter.  At 1:64 scale, that's 12.7mm.  I checked and the cutout is large enough.

 

 

[Overworked724]

NOOOOO!  Why ruin it by putting in a propeller?  Are you going to offer the plans both with and without the propeller? 

 

=-) 

[SardonicMeow]

On 3/4/2019 at 5:28 PM, Overworked724 said:

Are you going to offer the plans both with and without the propeller?

Since you mentioned it, I'll keep both rudder versions in the design.

 

Anyway, while working on the layout for cutting, I realized that I'll have some extra space.  So I designed a cradle for the model to sit in while I work on it.

 

[Overworked724]

39 minutes ago, SardonicMeow said:

Since you mentioned it, I'll keep both rudder versions in the design.

 

Anyway, while working on the layout for cutting, I realized that I'll have some extra space.  So I designed a cradle for the model to sit in while I work on it.

 

Awesome!  If you can throw in a cutaway for a pipe holder, that would be great!!!  (Kidding - I don't smoke)

[SardonicMeow]

I caught an error in my design.  The bow former pieces end at a level that is too high.  I corrected them and now they end flush with the forecastle deck level.  I hope there are no other errors that I have overlooked.

 

 

Ok, let's get ready for laser cutting.  The laser cutter software is called RDWorks.  It has some basic tools to create and modify shapes, but...  Well, have a look at the message that appears at the bottom left of the RDWorks window.  I think it says it all.

 

 

I tried exporting one of the bulkhead shapes from Fusion 360 as a DXF and importing it into RDWorks.  There is a problem.  Notice how the edges of the shape aren't smooth and sometimes overlap.

 

This is not a problem with RDWorks.  I found lots of people complaining about issues with the DXF export function in Fusion 360.  Apparently, it outputs splines in a format that many other programs can't handle.

 

 

The solution I found is a Fusion 360 plug-in called "DXF Spline To Polyline".  The plug-in adds a separate DXF export option to Fusion 360 that converts splines to many short line segments.  Here is the same bulkhead piece exported using the plug-in then brought into RDWorks.

 

Once I confirmed that the plug-in was working as expected, I exported every shape (bulkheads, fairing lines, keel, rudder, transom, etc.) as a separate DXF file.  There were 51 in all.

 

 

It was pretty clear that arranging the parts for cutting using RDWorks would be a pain.  I found some strong recommendations for the popular open-source vector graphics software Inkscape.  Learning the basic operations within Inkscape didn't take long.

 

In Inkscape, I created a new document with a size equivalent to a 24" x 4" wood sheet.  Then I imported a DXF and moved it into place.  For items that will be scribed rather than cut, I set the color to red.  Labels were adding to pieces using the text tool.  However, in order to make sure they would be scribed by the laser cutter, I had to convert the text objects into paths using the Path -> Object to Path menu option.

 

When the whole Inkscape document is saved as a DXF then imported into RDWorks, RDWorks will interpret each color as a layer, so the separation between the lines to scribe and lines to cut is preserved.

 

Here's the first sheet of objects.  I will end up with four total.

 

[Overworked724]

Please let me know when your taking orders!!!!!!!

 

looks awesome!!!!

[SardonicMeow]

More design changes.

 

First, I was concerned because there was no surface under the counter for the end of the hull planks to sit on.  So, new shapes were added there.  The new pieces are highlighted in blue in the picture.

 

 

I was not happy with the transom windows, recess, etc.  I spent some time redesigning the shapes and it now is closer to what's in my reference picture.  Original attempt is on the left, new version is on the right.

 

 

Originally I planned to glue the transom end piece above to simulated stern timbers, and also add some planking to cover the stern timbers on the inside.  See the basic idea in the picture below.  All those layers together is pretty thick, and trying to make the stern timbers thinner would only make then so thin that they would break easily.

 

 

I realized that I don't need the stern timbers.  There is already enough surface area for the pieces to be glued on, so the stern timbers were removed from those pieces.  Instead, I will cut 3 transom pieces from 1/32" sheet: one with the recess pattern and two with the windows cut out.  This stack will be glued directly on the back, very much as in the original Model Shipways plans.

 

 

[Overworked724]

I agree with removing the timber heads from the transom.  Will you be offering a laser cut pattern for the window shutters off the transom?

 

Yiur work is truly inspiring, Peter. And if you share the finished file, I’ll try to find a way to get the laser cut pieces and put it into a build!  I’m getting tons of practice on the Old kit...would love to compare to a New kit!

 

keep up the great blog....looks like you are almost done!

[SardonicMeow]

Sick of screenshots?  Want to finally see some actual, physical pieces of wood?

 

Well, I've been grinning ear to ear because I finally got my pieces laser cut!

 

Here's one of the sheets after cutting.  (I should have taken more pictures of the laser cutter in action, but I was too focused on getting the work done.)

 

 

Here is a picture of the design, followed by the corresponding pieces dry fit.

 

 

And various other pieces.  Because someone requested it (hi, Patrick), the classic rudder is there as well as the modern rudder.

 

 

This is my cradle for holding the ship while I work on it.

 

 

And the laser cut pieces next to the original solid hull.

 

9 hours ago, Overworked724 said:

Will you be offering a laser cut pattern for the window shutters off the transom?

Well, I kept the little bits that were cut out (see below), but probably won't use them.  I have other ideas for the windows.

 

Next time, a closer examination of the pieces and some lessons learned about laser cutting.

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by SardonicMeow

[lmagna]

So are you going to let some of us reimburse you some of your development cost by being allowed to buy plans, program, or laser cut parts! I don't own a laser cutter but I think I could track one down to use!  

[Overworked724]

Ok. Firstly I’m really amazed at how this short blog has changed my perspective. Really great to see the progression here, Peter. Amazing!!  I’m drooling!  

 

A couple questions. Where did you get the pieces cut?  Did your plans consider the type of wood you would use for your frames?  Are you going to build the Sultana?  I would love to this frame fully planked!  And if I get my hands on the plans and the know how to turn them into laser cut pieces I will begin building her (again) ASAP!  👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[SardonicMeow]

5 minutes ago, Overworked724 said:

Where did you get the pieces cut?

At a local Makerspace.  I took a training class on how to use the laser cutter last year and did all the laser cutting this evening using the equipment belonging to the Makerspace.

 

7 minutes ago, Overworked724 said:

Did your plans consider the type of wood you would use for your frames?

Just the thickness of the wood sheets.  I used basswood because it's inexpensive and easy to get.  (And because I really don't know much about the properties of other types of wood.)  Maybe using a harder wood would have been better.  I don't know.

 

8 minutes ago, Overworked724 said:

Are you going to build the Sultana?

Yes, yes, YES!  This is my Sultana build log, not a product development log.  😀  Completing the laser cutting is just the end of chapter one.  I'm a long way from being done.

 

23 minutes ago, lmagna said:

So are you going to let some of us reimburse you some of your development cost by being allowed to buy plans, program, or laser cut parts!

I'm doing all this for fun.  Like I said before, I'll share something once I have a complete, or nearly complete, model.

[russ]

Well, you have gone and done it now!!!  

 

Your hull looks like it will come together nicely. This has been very interesting to watch so far. Thanks. I will look forward to following your progress. 

 

Russ