18th century railing in conformity with today's safety regulations?

[MESSIS]

The L' Hermione replica  as well as  the model kit of Artesania Latina has the railing as in the picture. I wonder if thats the way the original ship was.  I believe that the original ship had  a rail that  consisted of a few metal stanchions holding a row or two of ropes. The reason was to protect the crew from falling off as the ship sailed. But still  when needed (boat lowering, loading the ship etc,)  those rails to be flexible in dismantling.

 

Am I wrong. Can someone with more knowledge kindly comment on this?

 

Christos

 

The replica set up, I believe is made this way because of  todays safety regulations.

Edited March 4, 2019 by MESSIS

[mtaylor]

The ANCRE monograph only shows the outboard railing, Christos.  The inner one on the replica may be there, as you say, for modern safety requirements.  AL is known for it's inaccuracies, so make of that what you will.   There's one more disclaimer... the ANCRE monograph has numerous errors from what I've read, but I don't know if this is one of them.

[allanyed]

Based on photos and plans that I could find that are appropriate to French ships in the 18th century, I  believe the outboard rail would be a series of permanent U-shaped stanchions called hammock cranes in which  hammocks would be stowed after being rolled and passed through a measuring ring when not in use.   They would be walled in with canvas or netting.  Per a description from Goodwin, the English first secured the cranes with a single spike into the plank sheer but then later followed the French practice of having the bulwarks partially built up and cranes were secured to the inboard side of the bulwark rather on than on top of the plank sheer.     There would be no rail at all around the waist.   The inboard rail on the replica is indeed more likely to prevent lawsuits due to not following modern safety practices.    The ship's boats would be hoisted over these hammock stowage rails so there was no need to make them flexible or removable.   

Allan

Edited March 4, 2019 by allanyed

[MESSIS]

@mtaylor thank you very much for dropping by to help. I just wonder if how are normally the railings of an 18th century war ship in those cases. Do you have any knowledge on that?

[MESSIS]

@allanyed Allan you are good! Could you please be so kind to send me a reference link or book of Goodwin? I am aware in.general about the hammock cranes on the outboard rail ( i.e. Victory). 

 

And a second question if I may, you say "no rail around the waist..." you mean there wasnt any rail around the deck opening for the storage of the life boats? 

 

Many thanks Allan... very kind of you shearing all that with me!

Christos

[mtaylor]

Christos,

It varies a lot in the French frigates.  Some didn't have any railing, others used rope, and of course wood on the outboard side only. Depends on the ship and the period.  On the plans I referenced  for L' Hermoine, it shows the outboard railings, but no inboard railings.  On the earlier frigates, the "walkway" between the quarterdeck and the forecastle was actually lower than the two decks.  You had to step down onto the walkway. 

 

Allan,

The Goodwin info is only valid for English and possibly American frigates.  The French for the most part, didn't have hammocks on frigates.  The crew slept in any place they could find.  Due to the hull shapes, dedicated deck space was at premium to say the least.   So they slept on the deck, down in the hold, on the cable stowage, just about anyplace.  On the other hand, fresh bread seemed to be available.....

[MESSIS]

@mtaylor  again you have been very informative and so my question is answered. Thank you very much. 

 

How is the outboard railing in your reference plans? Is it metal stancheons with a wooden part or with just a rope?

 

Please -if ofcourse its not incovinient- could you pass me over a copy or even a rough picture made from your mobile phone, of the plans you referenced. Just to have a closer look and keep in my log. Because am planing to build Hermione again and I definitly follow the  guidance you just gave me. 

 

Thank you again 

Christos

Edited March 5, 2019 by MESSIS

[mtaylor]

I'll see what I can do, Christos.  I don't use a mobile phone with good imaging so I'll scan what I can.   

[MESSIS]

@mtaylor Dont worry about it. Its not so important because you have actually described me the setup.... so dont bother if its even the slightest inconvenient.

 

You helped already a lot with all those infos you gave me, therefore I thank you again.

Christos

 

 

[mtaylor]

Lets try these...  The hull pic is from the ANCRE website's PDF. The Rail is from the plans.  It is a single rail on each side (outboard).  There's one curved wooden stanchion and rest are iron.  I'm not far enough into this yet to know if these rails were removable.   I hope this helps.

 

[MESSIS]

Oh yes it certainly does! I appreciate this very much. Many thanks.

 

I will go for it.... and may be (or may be not.... I ll give it some more thought) also put iron stanchions just  with rope around the boat opening...  just to be on the safe side. The thing is that am not going to follow the replica's version which definitely isnt  the original one.

 

Thanks again for all your valuable help and patience!

Christos

[mtaylor]

If you can, the ANCRE monograph is pretty good, but there are errors.  But at this stage of your build it might be a waste of money.

[MESSIS]

 I have build Hermione of AL once and now am going to rebuild her not as the replica variation but as the original ship (as nearer as I can). So I have not yet started the build.

 

Yes you are right about ANCRE.... has errors and is expensive. So to be honest am very relactant  buying it. Though its not out of question.... am playing with this thought. 

 

Christos

 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by MESSIS