HMS Prince 1670 by Captainhash - Constructo - Scale 1:61 - First wooden ship build

[Edwardkenway]

That's  a great planking job you've done captainhash😀  looks like you will have a beautiful ship at the end. I will be following you to  the finish. 

[Captainhash]

Thanks man hopefully 😂 

[Captainhash]

Work has been manic hardly been able to get anything done on the ship progress really slow but have now cutout all ports and framed them also more work been done on the stern... 

[pirozzi]

Pretty impressive for a first build. I will follow your log, as I am also building the Prince. Mine is the original kit from Amati from 1978. I have started a build log here as well.

 

Vince P. 

[Captainhash]

Thanks alot for the kind words I'll be watching yours for some tips and eager to see what extra detail I can add I believe the kit you have got is probably superior in details than mine😂 I'm definitely gonna need help with the rigging for sure if I ever get to that stage. Wish I had more free time but I'm plodding along 🤞good luck with your build aswell 

[Captainhash]

Just a little more done next on agenda building the stern gallery's 

[Captainhash]

Finally go t a chance to start the stern gallery's. Painstakingly slow but getting there

[Captainhash]

[RobZorba]

Hi CaptainHash,

 

Nice to see your build log, thank you for your excellent work.  I bought the Constructo Prince kit and am currently planking the lower hull.  Would you like to swap build hints and tips?  I do not plan to start a build log of my own, but I can take occasional pics to share with you on your thread if you request it.

 

I did a lot of research on the appearance of the "real" ship, mainly in paintings.  The builder's model in the UK science museum does not reflect the final color scheme or decor. I make that statement based on a painting dated 1672 entitled "King Charles II visiting the fleet". The Prince was the flagship of the fleet at that time, and is painted in great detail which I believe to be accurate.  See this link ...

 

King Charles II Receiving the Fleet (1672)

 

By the way, there is currently an error on the Maritime Museum web site for this painting.  The web site identifies the flagship as the 55 gun Royal Prince of 1610.  But this had ceased service a long time before Charles Ii became King.  The ship in the painting is the 100 gun flagship, the HMS Prince which was a 1st line ship of the British navy from 1670 until 1692 when it was refitted to become the Royal William.

Edited December 12, 2019 by RobZorba

[RobZorba]

An alternative method for marking out the gun ports is to trace the gun ports from the Constructo plan on kitchen greaseproof paper, then tape and pin the tracing paper to the hull, then use a 0.8mm drill bit in my Dremel to mark each corner of the gun ports.  Reverse the tracing paper to use the same tracing to do both sides of the hull.

 

Before using the Constructo plan for gun port positions, I checked carefully with a side view image of the HMS Prince shipwright model in the UK science museum.  As far as I can tell, the Constructo plans are very good.

 

The easiest way for me to remove the 10 mm square of planking for each gunport was to first drill a 5 mm hole in the approximate center, next use a small Dremel cutoff wheel to mark all 4 sides, then use a mini saw blade to enlarge the 5mm hole leaving about 0.5mm of wood at each corner.  The final surplus material was removed with a square section needle file.

 

Constructo instruct the kit builder to make a frame from 1mm by 2mm stripwood and stick it inside each 10mm by 10mm gunport.  This reduces the size of the opening to 8mm by 8mm which is too small an opening to be true to scale, and into which a 10mm by 10mm gunport cover is never going to fit.  Closed gunport covers should "fit" flush with the hull.  Also there is no visible "window frame" around each gunport in the ship wright model or in paintings of "the Prince".

 

What did I do to solve this?

 

I slightly enlarged each gunport opening to 11mm by 11mm.  Then I used some 0.5 mm thick deck planking strips to line each gunport - meaning that the final opening size was 10mm by 10mm.  The thin strips are barely visible in a side view.  The sides of each gunport are painted red in all English ships.

 

In the last picture, with some red and black painting done, the "halo" around upper gunports is bare wood onto which the circular gilt decor will be stuck using cyano later. 

[Captainhash]

Nicely done m8 yeh I don't mind you posting on this build log I haven't been able to get any further work done on my boat as of yet due to work commitments but I will finish her slowly but surely lol but with the lower hull I found the solder iron bending tool and jig very useful for the angles bends required and a lot of patience I followed the destructions on the gun ports hadn't realised they were really flush in real life but aswell to late now and seeing how you marked the gun ports out seems alot better than the method I've done I've found building her challenging but rewarding good luck with your build look forward to seeing progress and your ideas come the later stages 

[RobZorba]

Captainhash, many thanks!

 

One thing I noticed in the instruction manual photos for the galleries is that parts 63, 65 and 67 appear to be shown assembled back to front.

 

I believe they should be assembled so the small recess is near the stern and the longer recess is near the front.  Not as depicted on pages 25, 44, 45 etc with the long recess at the stern.  When correctly aligned, the "bulge" in parts 63, 65 and 67 should be linearly aligned with the upper parts 69 and 71.  You can see this in the science museum model and in various 17th century paintings of the ship.

 

The consequence of incorrect assembly is that the curved "bulges" in the upper and lower parts of the galleries do not align, and so the decor on the galleries does not fit correctly.  In the instruction leaflet, the decor is sloped at an unnatural angle when compared with the shipyard model in the science museum in which the decor is parallel to the stern.

 

Anyway I'll post some pictures in a later thread of the resulting "modified" stern galleries ... planking lower hull at the moment.

 

Look at 5th or 6th image here, there's a very good photo of the stern gallery on the shipyard model of the Prince ... the decor is parallel to the stern ...

 

HMS Prince Shipyard Model at London Science Museum

 

Compare with images in Constructo Instruction Manual ... the decor is not parallel to the stern ...

[RobZorba]

Some observations about Constructo's choice of timber for planking the hull:

 

The wood supplied by Constructo for planking the lower hull is a red hardwood with frequently "crossed" grain that traverses the strips at 90 degrees at times.  This wood is hopeless for use when planking the lower hull.  Even after soaking 2 days, then steaming and rolling the bends using a hot iron, the strips snap along the grain and across the planks as you can see in the photo attached.  And btw, the holes for the pins were drilled first, otherwise pushing a pin into the timber snaps it straight away.

 

The wood supplied by Constructo for planking the upper hull is a softwood with straight grain that runs consistently along the length of the planks.  The planks bend easily and do not snap. The bends at the bow were easily made after soaking, not a single snap occurred.

 

My conclusion is that it would be far better to plank the whole hull firstly using the softwood with straight grain.  Then use 0.5mm hardwood and softwood strips like the decking strips as secondary planking for decorative and scale finishing purposes.

 

I will never again try to plank a hull with primary planking using fragile redwood strips with crossed (90 degree) grain. This timber is totally useless and inappropriate for this job.  I hope Constructo modify their kits in future!

 

I will be painting the lower hull white, so I'm not too worried about the snapped timbers which I can repair with glue and wood filler.

[Captainhash]

I was quite fortunate with my kit it seems as the grain ran with the plank I managed to plank it singularly however they do supply with kit the veneers you wish to double plank thankfully into lucky and didn't require them but at least they supplied them

[Captainhash]

Regarding the stern gallery I noticed this mess up after I'd glued following the instructions I then reshaped them to how I thought they should look

[Captainhash]

The holes I've cut are to allow small leds so cabin windows and rear cabin windows will  be lit up to simulate candle light inside 

[RobZorba]

2 hours ago, Captainhash said:

Regarding the stern gallery I noticed this mess up after I'd glued following the instructions I then reshaped them to how I thought they should look

 

Yours look great after reshaping, and the LED "lanterns" will be superb.  Glad you noticed the mistakes in this part of the instructions.

 

In my kit, three of the bulkheads, parts 5, 6 and 7 were laser cut wrong.  It was impossible to slide in the strips for mounting lower guns.  I had to dremel out an extra 5mm on the lower edge of all "slots" in those three bulkheads.

 

I dry fitted and pinned together all parts up to and including upper deck 40 before I glued anything.  There were many parts that had to be modified, not just 5, 6 and 7.  I recommend this "dry fit" approach to anyone building any kit, because you will have to make some modifications to get everything to align correctly.  These modifications are much easier to make before any parts are glued together.

 

Also it's important to read ahead and check against the plans and original ship drawings and models and paintings frequently.  We cannot rely on instructions or photographs in an instruction manual being correct.  If something looks wrong, or doesn't fit correctly, it probably is the manufacturer that made the mistake, not you!

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by RobZorba

[Captainhash]

Agreed on mine they hadn't cut the slots for the gun port backing to slide in to the frames a bit hit and miss .also the coat of arms for the stern is of poor quality I will prob decorate the rear of ship slightly different so mine prob wont end up as an exact replica of the ship but ahwell since this is first kit I've ever built it's all a learning process 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Captainhash

[RobZorba]

Take a look at the stern image of the Prince in the 1672 painting "King Charles II receiving the fleet".  I posted the link earlier.  I believe this is the most authentic painting available of the stern and port side of the actual HMS Prince.  The full painting is over 3 meters wide, so the Prince is pretty high resolution.

 

Here is a link to the Royal Nautical Guild webpage for this painting.

 

King Charles II visits the fleet in 1672

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by RobZorba
Added link to Royal Nautical Guild painting

[RobZorba]

Hi Captainhash,

 

Most kits of HMS Prince, including the Constructo kit, are based on the shipyard model in the London Science Museum.  No harm in that, because the shipyard model is the set of "plans" from which the full size HMS Prince was built. 

 

But I guess that the customer (King Charles II and his brother the Duke of York) wanted some changes, especially to the decor and ornament, which are different in the 1672 painting from the shipwright model of circa 1668.

 

So, I believe that the painting of the fleet including HMS Prince completed in 1762 is the best reference we modellers have for the decor, stern ornament, rigging, sails, color scheme etc.  I believe that this painting is highly accurate and supersedes those details in the shipwright model. 

 

It would be great if kit manufacturers could be made aware of this painting of the HMS Prince, so that decor and mouldings supplied in the kit could be updated.

 

What do you think?

 

Would anyone on this forum like to undertake a commercial project to produce and license an updated set of "carvings" for the Constructo Prince kit?  

 

If I do it myself, is it likely that Constructo would license the moulds from me?

[pirozzi]

I have to ask! What is your ship resting on in these photos? 

Vince 

[Captainhash]

My daughters high chair her craps everywhere 

[the learner]

Looking foward to seeing you finish this build