Galleon San Luis, please help

[Marco Silva]

Hi, I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but I've acquired a ship kit of a Spanish galleon and I can't find any information about the ship. From what I have searched the kit is based on the plans of Vincenzo Lusci - Galeone Spagnolo 1607, but I can't find the original plans and the kit doesn't have any plans. I have almost no experience in wooden ship models, but I'd like to have at least some historic base to give me a direction. This is the kit: https://www.disarmodel.com/nivel-4/27-san-luis-galeon-espanol-del-s-xvii-8436552881446.html

 

Thank you very much for your help

Edited April 9, 2020 by Marco Silva

[amateur]

Vincezo Lusci was an Italian writing some books on modelbuilding, somewhere around the late sixties. He made a couple of ship plans, that showed kind of 'archetypical ships', with a good sounding name on it.

In germany you had Rolf Hoeckel, doing the same.

 

I am pretty sure that this model is based on a number of paintings showi g spanish galleons, and not a historically accurate model of a specific ship.

these 60-iesmodels make attractive models, but not historically accurate models. Even if it was a model depicting the state of the art knowledge on historic shipbuilding, the research has moved on since the 60-ies, so presumably not accurate and state of the art nowadays.

 

having said that: it still makes and attractive looking model.

 

and I don't see why there is a strange configuration near the keel: what I see is that the planks run a bit high along the stern, but that is due to the fact that all older kits, and quite a few modern ones, use rather stiff straight planks for the hull, while they should be spiled, and slightly inward curving. But perhaps you see something I don't....

 

Jan

[amateur]

On second thought: what do you meanby 'the kit has no plans'

do you mean that there are no drawings included? In that case I would ask for them by the seller, as building a model without drawings is near impossible.....

[Marco Silva]

32 minutes ago, amateur said:

On second thought: what do you meanby 'the kit has no plans'

do you mean that there are no drawings included? In that case I would ask for them by the seller, as building a model without drawings is near impossible.....

Yes, there are no drawings, only a booklet with photos of the kit and some instructions.

 

40 minutes ago, amateur said:

Vincezo Lusci was an Italian writing some books on modelbuilding, somewhere around the late sixties. He made a couple of ship plans, that showed kind of 'archetypical ships', with a good sounding name on it.

In germany you had Rolf Hoeckel, doing the same.

 

I am pretty sure that this model is based on a number of paintings showi g spanish galleons, and not a historically accurate model of a specific ship.

these 60-iesmodels make attractive models, but not historically accurate models. Even if it was a model depicting the state of the art knowledge on historic shipbuilding, the research has moved on since the 60-ies, so presumably not accurate and state of the art nowadays.

 

having said that: it still makes and attractive looking model.

 

and I don't see why there is a strange configuration near the keel: what I see is that the planks run a bit high along the stern, but that is due to the fact that all older kits, and quite a few modern ones, use rather stiff straight planks for the hull, while they should be spiled, and slightly inward curving. But perhaps you see something I don't....

 

Jan

The strange configuration near the keel I was talking about was an optical illusion due to the different wood colors...

[mtaylor]

Is there a company and address on the booklet or box?  You'd probably have to contact them.  But with the times they way they are, you'll probably be waiting awhile.   Also check as some companies have email to contact them.

[Marco Silva]

I have already contacted them but no answer so far... guess I'm on my own!

[amateur]

I've been searching, and I have seen two (incomplete) buildlogs of this model on italian fora. Both logs showed the contents of the box: lots of parts, and a booklet with pictures, no drawings.

 

I also found that the drawings by Lusci do not really match the model by disar....

 

Looks as if you are more or less at the deep end .

 

Jan

[Roger Pellett]

As has been said many times on the forum,  most galleon model kits are based mostly on conjecture and marketing hype.   Recently there has been some real scholarship to understand the geometric rules in ancient manuscripts that still exist.  Two books containing discussions of this are The Galleon, by Peter Kirsch and Vanguard of Empire by Roger C. Smith.

 

There has been one wrecked Sixteenth Century Spanish vessel discovered in sufficient state of preservation to allow reconstruction by archeologists.   While not a warship, it Is considered to exhibit many characteristics of a Galleon.  This is the Red Bay Galleon, believed to be the whaling support vessel San Juan crushed in the ice at Red Bay Labrador.  The results of this discovery are published in a monumental five volume report by Parks Canada.  While I purchased the hard copy several years ago, I have heard that this information is also available on line.

 

Roger

[Geowolf]

hi Marco,

i've located this link with a museum model ship, close in colours to your model, with a brief history:

 

Model of the galleon '' San Luis ''. The original was a two-bridge, 80-gun ship ordered to be built by Cardenal Richelieu in the first third of the 17th century. He participated in the attack against the towns of Santoña and Laredo. Model made by Marcos Pérez Domingo. It is located in the Museum of the Royal Artillery Factory of La Cavada in the town of La Cavada, Cantabria, Spain.

 

https://www.biodiversidadvirtual.org/etno/Maqueta-del-galeon-San-Luis-La-Cavada-img94530.html

 

maybe it helps you,

 

regards,

[Louie da fly]

Goewulf, that appears to be a different ship - a French ship called the Saint Louis which is dated to the first third of the 17th century.

 

The note at the bottom of the site Marco linked to says "El Galeón San Luis del S. XVII, participó en la Batalla de las Dunas, en la que luchó contra Francia y Holanda en la Guerra de los 80 años" The galleon  San Luis participated in the battle of the Dunes (1600 AD) - [also known as the Battle of Nieuwpoort]  in which she fought against France and Holland in the 80 years war. So the timing is similar to within a few decades, but the French ship of three gundecks is considerably bigger - and in my opinion, more modern - than the Spanish ship with only two.

 

But apart from a river crossing in boats the battle of the Dunes was fought on land - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nieuwpoort- so how a galleon was able to take part in it I don't know.

 

I'd agree with Amateur that this model probably represents a "generic" galleon, rather than a specific vessel, even if it's been given a name.

 

Regarding the plans, I found this - http://www.anb-online.it/navi-mercantili-e-navi-antiche/le-documentazioni-di-vincenzo-lusci/1403-galeone-spagnolo-175/ - apparently you can buy both plans and Vincenzo Lusci's monograph, though I don't know what the situation is regarding copyright.

 

Or, and probably better still, you could buy Lusci's book from ebay at  https://www.ebay.ca/sch/sis.html?_nkw=Spanish Galleon Galeone Spagnolo 1607 wooden model building book Vincenzo Lusci&_itemId=174195024314 . The price is fairly attractive, but the cost of shipping seems rather high.

 

But if, as Amateur says, the drawings by Lusci don't match up with the Disar model, that may not be any help to you. If the booklet is all you have, it makes it a little difficult.

 

Probably your best option is to start a build log in the Model Kits section. Post photos of the contents of the box - all the bits and pieces of the kit. There are many experienced modellers on this forum who will be able to help you step through the process. 

 

The other thing is to look at similar  build logs, particularly of galleons - both kits and scratch built, - such as 

and pick up tips from how others did it.  

 

And have fun with it!

 

 

Steven 

[Anaga]

If you want to build, an authentic Spanish Galleon of the early 17th century, and you speak Spanish look here:

https://modelismoperianes.wordpress.com/

You can also look for a two-volume work titled Los Galeones Españoles del siglo XVII:

 https://www.academia.edu/19453876/Los_galeones_espa%C3%B1oles_del_siglo_XVII_Tomo_I

https://www.academia.edu/19454708/Los_galeones_espa%C3%B1oles_del_siglo_XVII_Tomo_II

In addition, here, a three-volume work on Iberian Oceanic ships during the XVI and XVII centuries:

https://www.academia.edu/37437776/Los_barcos_oce%C3%A1nicos_del_Atl%C3%A1ntico_ib%C3%A9rico_en_los_siglos_XVI_y_XVII_Tomo_I_de_III

https://www.academia.edu/37437680/Los_barcos_oce%C3%A1nicos_del_Atl%C3%A1ntico_ib%C3%A9rico_en_los_siglos_XVI_y_XVII_Tomo_II_de_III

https://www.academia.edu/37437120/Los_barcos_oce%C3%A1nicos_del_Atl%C3%A1ntico_ib%C3%A9rico_en_los_siglos_XVI_y_XVII_Tomo_III_y_%C3%BAltimo

I believe ANCRE is translating the two volumes of Los Galeones Españoles del siglo XVII and a model it´s been built to validate the plans the author´s drew of the Galeón de 16 codos (16 cubit Galleon). So if everything goes as planned expect to have an ANCRE Spanish Galleon Monograph sometime in the near future.

The first link is a “must have” if you are into drawing plans. It teaches you the rules and technics to delineate a set of plans for the 16-cubit Galleon. The other works are an excellent way to understand what was going on the Iberian Peninsula Galleon ship-building wise during the XVI-XVII century’s period.

[Bill Jackson]

On 4/10/2020 at 6:28 PM, Marco Silva said:

I have already contacted them but no answer so far... guess I'm on my own!

In my opinion the company has very poor customer service. I emailed them myself and got only an email the asked "what do you want"