Oil, varnish and brighten up the wood

[Wahka_est]

Hi

 

Few newbie questions:

1) do you varnish wood after treating with oil?

2) why is danish oil the best? Does it just brightens up the wood?

3) after sanding the deck it lost its sharpness and contrast. How to being it back. After wet wipe it looks amazing but will dry out.

4) In Estonia we dont have specific danish oil, what would be other name for product?

[Wahka_est]

Is anyone used this: Wood Wax Finish Clear Extra Thin.

https://osmo-store.com/product/wood-wax-finish-clear-extra-thin/

It should be designed specially for exotic woods.

[Jaager]

14 hours ago, Wahka_est said:

1) do you varnish wood after treating with oil?

2) why is danish oil the best? Does it just brightens up the wood?

3) after sanding the deck it lost its sharpness and contrast. How to being it back. After wet wipe it looks amazing but will dry out.

4) In Estonia we dont have specific danish oil, what would be other name for product?

What are the sources that even suggest that any sort of penetrating oil is commonly used on a ship model?  A few use it.  The approval and suitability for use on a ship model expressed in the way that you wrote this inquiry probably only exists in the minds of the owners and advertising department of the Watco Co.  Watco = Danish Oil = $

Ship models seldom present a large enough flat surface to need or need to show the effects of depth with a clear finish.

Unless your model is and is meant to be a toy, a high gloss finish is a scale inappropriate look.

Most any water clear oil will give give wood a wet look.  Most oils never dry and ruin the surface for any follow on treatment.  Penetrating oils are a special case . As they are exposed to air, they undergo a chemical reaction (you hope) and cross link (polymerize).  They become a clear "hard, maybe" solid.  What they allow to be bonded to their surface is particular and specific to the type of oil used.

 

Now,  to back up a step or two and address your real problem:

This is opinion, not law or rules:

After you sand the deck, give it a light scraping with a sharp single edged razor blade. Vacuum and then wipe with 95% ethanol.

I do not think you really want a deck on a ship model to express sharpness or contrast in the wood grain used.  The goal is to use a wood species with no visible grain.

Apply a coat of shellac - the primer coat (1st coat) is 50:50  shellac: 95% ethanol  (shellac thinner).

Follow with a coat of full strength shellac.  Shellac just dries.  There is no chemical reaction.  The more layers, the more depth effect. ( French polish )

If anything plastic is not against Your rules, a wipe on polyurethane finish seems to be a popular final finish instead of or over the full strength shellac. But unless yours is a toy, not high gloss.

[stuglo]

I think it fair to say that use of oil (I use teak oil) is more than an acceptable alternative. Applied sparingly with cloth or wire wool, or diluted, it is absorbed with little obvious depth, non shiny and brings out the colour of wood beautifully. Seems to prevent shrinkage and cracking. I think it also protects against worm and other insects. 20 models in 30 years have not disappointed. I used wipe-on poly only once, but not as happy with result. (possibly my ineptitude).Some thought may be necessary if gluing afterward , but if applied sparingly and an "iron" bond is not required, the usual water-based glues work. I have read many good things about shellac, so I'll see if I can find some locally .

[Jaager]

Y.T.,

You must first please yourself.  The grain contrast is a personal factor. 

If you are new enough at this to not realize what kit instructions are intended to ( can't find the verb )  as far as adherence to absolute historical accuracy,  it is proper and expected that you follow them. 

If you are seduced further into all this, more knowledge and sophistication will follow.  It is a natural and necessary progression.  One common to all of us who did not graduate from The Webb Institute with a minor in the historical aspects of ship building (if they even have such a thing). The range of what all of this covers is not an impossible to encompass, open ended challenge.  History has set limits.  Loss of information has allowed for creativity and interpretative challenge.  It is broad enough for a lifetime of interest.

 

I would never enter or judge any sort of contest.  So my opinion is not a factor.  The key for me is to pick a goal and objective for just what is wished to be displayed  and do the best to meet those targets.  That has evolved quite a lot over time. 

 

For your next ship,  if historical accuracy is a goal, look up the shift of the butt joints on deck planking that was actually allowed.  

 

There are very generally two schools of thought on deck and hull fastenings:

none,  because for the deck at least, they were covered with plugs of the same species placed with the same grain orientation and were thus invisible from any distance.

Show,  there was a rule about number and stagger pattern.  There was a rule about diameter. They were not just used at the butt joins.

I like them for two reasons. 1. The look.   2.  Their locations can be used with pins and hitch chocks to hold and clamp until the Titebond dries.  Then if brass pins are used, and brass trunnels wanted, nip and file.  If bamboo trunnels, pull, broach, and glue in the bamboo.  The pain is dealing with getting the pattern location correct on the loose plank.

 

[Wahka_est]

Jaager i understand that you are against what i want to achive-thats ok.

 

Is there anyone who can answer my questions etc and how to reach that sharpness?

[Jaager]

Wahka_est,

It is not so much that as it is the implication that Danish oil is somehow special.  I have used Tung oil for the same purpose on a DIY Gerstner tool chest.  It is that shellac will do what you want.  With less time needed between coats and a better reverse gear.  The depth can be fine tuned - more coats, more effect. 

 

The following are quotes from Google. No attribution, so no way to judge the accuracy.

 

"Danish oil is a wood finishing oil, often made of tung oil or polymerized linseed oil, although there is no defined formulation so its composition varies among manufacturers. ... It is a "long oil" finish, a mixture of oil and varnish, typically around one-third varnish and the rest oil."

"WATCO Danish Oil is a unique blend of penetrating oil & varnish hardens in the wood, not on the wood. Watco Danish Oil penetrates deep into wood pores to protect from within and to enhance the natural look and feel of the wood. It creates the rich, warm glow of a traditional hand-rubbed finish."  This is obviously advertising copy. (seduction and manipulation)

"Danish oil is easier to use than tung oil because it penetrates wood faster and it also dries faster than tung oil. On the other hand, tung oil cures to a very hard and beautiful, golden finish, which is often worth all the trouble of applying it."

[vaddoc]

What finish to use is a very common problem. Lots of answers exist and there isn't really right or wrong, it is what works for each one. Of course, you should always test the finish you consider on scrap wood, not the model. When I started modelling, I tried lots of options and easily found what I like. It has also to do with the scale, what you can do in 1:10 may not be achievable at 1:64 scale.

 

To answer your question: Danish oil is essentially a mixture of oils (Tung oil usually) and varnishes. Each company seems to have each own recipe. Danish oil may be good to use on your garden deck or chairs, however I never liked trade products for use on models. So Danish oil already has varnish in. Generally though, you should not varnish over oil-oil is enough. Also you should be aware that not all finishes go on top of each other-generally oiled wood will not accept much.

 

For finishing wood, you have several options. Oils get absorbed into the wood which retains its "wooden" feel. Varnishes sit on the top and create a hard layer. Shellac is time honoured, easy to repair, thins with methylated spirits-never liked it myself but others use it a lot.

 

Tung oil is a different thing, it penetrates the wood and then polymerises and hardens. I use it a lot, it brings out the beauty of the wood but seems to work better on darker woods. I do not like the effect on pale woods. 

 

I use a water based sanding sealer a lot to seal wood-i find it much superior to Shellac. Ultimately, it might be best to get a few finishes and try them on using pieces of cheap plywood to see how they work and what you like. 

 

How about posting a photo of your deck? 

[vaddoc]

3 hours ago, Y.T. said:

I like current bare wood surface. For protection and giving it somehow glossy look I will just cover it with matt acrylic varnish

Matt varnishes can be very temperamental. If the medium is not very well stirred, you could end up with "brush marks", which is essentially caused by uneven distribution of the media. The varnish itself can also cause brush marks. It can be done but not the simplest of tasks. Also on vertical surfaces it might create "runs". 

 

It depends what you like, you could try Tung oil, wipe on poly, Shellac, a sanding sealer or just leave it as is. 

 

I wonder if just finishing the deck will make all other wooden pieces look very raw and these gratings and gunwales will be difficult to finish

[Wahka_est]

Sry as i dont understand what shellac etc all are as my native language isnt english.

Also i have allmost zero experience with wood coatings. My daily life if glass facades so no wood.

Here is my deck. Did little sample in the middle with Admiralty matt varnish.

[vaddoc]

Best to try finishes and paints on scrap wood, not the model! You may have trouble gluing anything to varnished surface.

I personally would probably sand the wood to 400 grit and leave it.

[Wahka_est]

I would like to achive that sharpnes look as i have on MK Polotsk kit. There is laser cut deck.

So my wuestion again not taking into account how other prefer to do it is: is so called Danish oil or Osmo oil wax suitable to get that look? 
Osmo says its meant for exotic wood to make it look so called wet.

And yes i will make sample offcourse. Just thought i might get some advice before buying it.

[Bob Cleek]

Why don't you take some scraps of the same wood you used on your deck and experiment a bit with the various options, then pick the one which provides the effect you want? That's really the only way to be sure you'll get the effect you want without risking messing up your deck.

[vaddoc]

Like Bob said, difficult to know straight away which finish works best and will give you the look you want. You do need to test. Even if you know how finishes work, you might need to test for each different wood you use.

Indeed, it can get expensive and you might never use some things you buy. We ve all been there! This is why modellers need a lot of storage space. 

If you plan to use any other finish, you will need to sand off the varnish from your deck

[Wahka_est]

Just wanted to get some heada up about oils.

I know and understand and all of that about making samples-more than dozen times said.

 

Simole question was just about so called Danish oil but ok let it be this time.

 

Osmo exotic wood oil poly or whatever test will be done at some point.