Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[ClipperFan]

6 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Looking so much better...but you need to push her nameplate forward.  The *S* in Sea is directly beneath the center of the forward bit and the bit is 8ft from the forward portion of the monkey rail tip.  So your bits need to be relocated as well(Pushed back).   Look at the close up of her....

 

Rob

Vladimir,

It looks overall like you're getting so close. What I've noticed is that Glory's 1st notch (bit) aligns up with the inclined top edge of her Naval Hood. The triple moldings of the Hood's lower edge aren't verticle, they actually each are a little shorter to coincide with the inclined edge which blends with the curve of her prow. You'll need to shorten the top two ribbons in her carving which both end exactly at that edge point. Again, reference the hawse line from the bit in the photo which goes directly over the "E" in "SEAS", it aligns perfectly with that starting edge. 

Her Bowsprit angle would be much closer to the outer top of the Naval Hood. Look at the 1807 San Pedro Bow, there's no daylight between her Bowsprit and Hood. At Sea, this would all be rigged as tight as possible, since any slack would be disastrous for her massive rigging.

Then Glory's transition from her keel to stem is a quarter circle, not the sharp juncture you have. See her 1869 scene on the Ways and look closely at the very bottom of her Prow 

You are making remarkable progress and it's very exciting to see.

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

24 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Looking so much better...but you need to push her nameplate forward.  The *S* in Sea is directly beneath the center of the forward bit and the bit is 8ft from the forward portion of the monkey rail tip.  So your bits need to be relocated as well(Pushed back).   Look at the close up of her....

 

Rob

Noted Rob thanks, I would also say that I had to make it longer on one photo in wharfe where she is faced from the bow, i see longer part of nameplate before it reaches naval hood.

Well gentlemen, apart of this, we have her beautifly measured at this point, also 6 FT bulwarks ( its around 4, 4.5 in michael drawings, and proper position of  all sheers that move up to the stern where they define its proportions...

 

i think i get drunk

 

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

58 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir,

It looks overall like you're getting so close. What I've noticed is that Glory's 1st notch (bit) aligns up with the inclined top edge of her Naval Hood. The triple moldings of the Hood's lower edge aren't verticle, they actually each are a little shorter to coincide with the inclined edge which blends with the curve of her prow. You'll need to shorten the top two ribbons in her carving which both end exactly at that edge point. Again, reference the hawse line from the bit in the photo which goes directly over the "E" in "SEAS", it aligns perfectly with that starting edge. 

Her Bowsprit angle would be much closer to the outer top of the Naval Hood. Look at the 1807 San Pedro Bow, there's no daylight between her Bowsprit and Hood. At Sea, this would all be rigged as tight as possible, since any slack would be disastrous for her massive rigging.

Then Glory's transition from her keel to stem is a quarter circle, not the sharp juncture you have. See her 1869 scene on the Ways and look closely at the very bottom of her Prow 

You are making remarkable progress and it's very exciting to see.

 

not sure i got it, i have to read repatedly Richard

 

by the way detail of stern after change, what you say of it now folks ? sorry for poor lines its just prolonged line sketch. by the way sheer is 7 inches as written in book. ...you can not slight "offline bump of smooth curve right where sheer it on that photo too...sort of way....straight sternpost and LOA and perpendicular measure pretty much define the main points of stern curvature and start and end...of it... ....also distance of sheers and rails....

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Vladimir_Wairoa
add

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

not sure i got it, i have to read repatedly Richard

 

by the way detail of stern after change, what you say of it now folks ? sorry for poor lines its just prolonged line sketch. by the way sheer is 7 inches as written in book. ...you can not slight "offline bump of smooth curve right where sheer it on that photo too...sort of way....straight sternpost and LOA and perpendicular measure pretty much define the main points of stern curvature and start and end...of it... ....also distance of sheers and rails....

 

 

 

 

 

Vladimir,

My apologies if descriptions I give are too confusing. I will try to make it simpler. Upper right side of this page, third line down "seven FOOT sheer. None of McKay's Clippers had a sheer in INCHES.

[ClipperFan]

Just now, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir,

My apologies if descriptions I give are too confusing. I will try to make it simpler. Upper right side of this page, third line down "seven FOOT sheer. None of McKay's Clippers had a sheer in INCHES.

Vladimir,

Your stern looks much closer to Glory's. The drop below the Main Rail molding doesn't bulge out that I see, it's more of a graceful drop and it's a little deeper than your profile. It's hard to tell but it looks to be around 3 1/2'. The edge is visible on her Stern Starboard quarter. Nice catch on that, I didn't see it until you pointed that out. 

[ClipperFan]

4 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

not sure i got it, i have to read repatedly Richard

 

by the way detail of stern after change, what you say of it now folks ? sorry for poor lines its just prolonged line sketch. by the way sheer is 7 inches as written in book. ...you can not slight "offline bump of smooth curve right where sheer it on that photo too...sort of way....straight sternpost and LOA and perpendicular measure pretty much define the main points of stern curvature and start and end...of it... ....also distance of sheers and rails....

 

 

 

 

 

Vladimir,

Sometimes a picture is worth, well too many words....

Above the anchor hole is what I call the edge of the Naval Hood. There are four big ropes that exit the first notch, run right over the "L" in "GLORY" and then across the Naval Hood. That beveled edge is not verticle; it goes at an angle to match the outward curve of Glory's Bow. Notice the three carved ribbons? They all stop right at the edge of Glory's Naval Hood. The bottom of that Hood has three moldings, not two like on the top. From what I see, especially in the other close up Starboard view, those three are each shorter than the one below. The thickness of those three combined is about equal to the upper two Naval Hood moldings combined. 

I tried to keep it less technical but there's so many elements involved that it's hard not to. I hope this helps.

[ClipperFan]

Michael Mjelde has opened up his golden vault and shared some more spectacular images with me. This port side view of her Goddess Athene is one I've never seen before. 

[druxey]

After some PM's with ClipperFan, try this version on for size:

[ClipperFan]

6 minutes ago, druxey said:

After some PM's with ClipperFan, try this version on for size:

Druxey,

That's much better. Now you're getting much closer. If you look real close, you'll see the large light object to the left of Athene's tight hairpin, that entire oval object is her hand, it's a little more parallel to the horizon. Her whole thumb is hidden inside of the fabric, only her upper hand is visible. It represents her gripping the flowing gown much tighter. This is a lovely improvement.

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Michael Mjelde has opened up his golden vault and shared some more spectacular images with me. This port side view of her Goddess Athene is one I've never seen before. 

 

This salmon can label must have come from that photograph....

 

Sweet image...so much info lies therein.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

12 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

 

This salmon can label must have come from that photograph....

 

Sweet image...so much info lies therein.

 

Rob

Rob, as soon as I saw this I thought of two things. This exact label and how you were surprised that Athene's long trailing toga actually had an open area through it. 

Mike also sent me both images on page 227 of his 1st book. I'm having a little trouble downloading it. As soon as I can, I'll share them with the group too.

[druxey]

Clipperfan: The only way I can draw that to articulate properly  is if her elbow is higher and forearm more horizontal, which will obscure her face in side elevation. Is that your take on this?

Edited March 22, 2021 by druxey

[druxey]

Here's the image:

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, as soon as I saw this I thought of two things. This exact label and how you were surprised that Athene's long trailing toga actually had an open area through it. 

Mike also sent me both images on page 227 of his 1st book. I'm having a little trouble downloading it. As soon as I can, I'll share them with the group too.

Mike sends me stuff too...but not those images yet.....

Thanks for sharing them.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

As promised, both images from page 227 of "Glory of the Seas" Michael Mjelde's first book published way back in 1970. To put things into perspective, Mike had already put 16 years into researching her at that point. Simply incredible.....

[ClipperFan]

50 minutes ago, druxey said:

Here's the image:

Druxey,

From this viewpoint, that looks just about perfect. I realize her face is partially blocked but look how naturally her arm position is and how more accurately her grip appears on that long, flowing gown. Athene wears a fancy necklace, which is barely visible as a grey area at the nape of her neck and two arm bracelets. It's easier to see if you refer back to some pics of her we've already shared.

[druxey]

Someone else can add those details. Thanks for your very helpful input, ClipperFan.  

[ClipperFan]

11 minutes ago, druxey said:

Someone else can add those details. Thanks for your very helpful input, ClipperFan.  

Druxey,

It was my pleasure. I understand about your choice not to get into the niggling details of Glory's figurehead. I just thought you might appreciate knowing them.

[druxey]

Thanks, ClipperFan. Now, if I were retired....

[rwiederrich]

10 hours ago, druxey said:

Here's the image:

 

Her arm is much better....more demonstrating of where it would be in that position.

 

Great job

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

9 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

As promised, both images from page 227 of "Glory of the Seas" Michael Mjelde's first book published way back in 1970. To put things into perspective, Mike had already put 16 years into researching her at that point. Simply incredible.....

 

This last picture is new....and for some strange reason her deck timbers appear to be laid horizontal or port to starboard instead of  stem to stern.  I wonder if she received a second layer of deck planking in her fabrication to a canary?    Odd thing?

You can easily see that her poop rail is definitely canting inward and then straightens as it proceeds around the stern.  Notice all the hatch covers stacked on her deck...probably from her main hatchway...since it appears her aft hatchway is completely covered up by that new decking laid...and her aft capstan is also removed.

 

It is evident she suffered some damage to her prow in the area of her forward bit and just over her starboard name board.   Her moldings show damage as well.  This might have happened when she collided with that steamer/tug .

 

Rob

Edited March 22, 2021 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

4 hours ago, druxey said:

Thanks, ClipperFan. Now, if I were retired....

Druxey,

This image shows Athene's upper arm bracelets as well as her necklace. Look closely, you'll also see the very bottom of her garment has double thin lines. I personally suspect these items could possibly have been embellished with gold at her launch. Especially since it would highlight all the lovely folds of her gown.

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Druxey,

This image shows Athene's upper arm bracelets as well as her necklace. Look closely, you'll also see the very bottom of her garment has double thin lines. I personally suspect these items could possibly have been embellished with gold at her launch. Especially since it would highlight all the lovely folds of her gown.

 

Talk about an amazing carving...what Art.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

 

This last picture is new....and for some strange reason her deck timbers appear to be laid horizontal or port to starboard instead of  stem to stern.  I wonder if she received a second layer of deck planking in her fabrication to a canary?    Odd thing?

You can easily see that her poop rail is definitely canting inward and then straightens as it proceeds around the stern.  Notice all the hatch covers stacked on her deck...probably from her main hatchway...since it appears her aft hatchway is completely covered up by that new decking laid...and her aft capstan is also removed.

 

It is evident she suffered some damage to her prow in the area of her forward bit and just over her starboard name board.   Her moldings show damage as well.  This might have happened when she collided with that steamer/tug .

 

Rob

Rob,

A few observations about the overall image of Glory in Seattle 1911. Her Cutwater circular curve goes through both Bobstay mounts and doesn't even straighten out until after going below them. Then her entrance appears to angle back more steeply than other images seem to imply. Her prow appears to be sharper too. Look at her waterline, she doesn't begin to fill out until after the quarterdeck, which signifies a much faster entrance then before. I'm curious as to your thoughts.

[Sailor1234567890]

Careful about her waterline there in that picture. It looks to me like there's an overboard discharge of some sort just below and abaft the fluke of that stbd anchor. It seems to be splashing the hull. You can see the darker wet region just above the waterline forward of there but the hull is wet a little higher where the water is splashing into the harbour there. There's also wet hull darkness below the outlet trailing aft. Leads me to believe there may have been wind coming from ahead at some point shortly before that picture was taken. Also makes the shape of her waterline there a little tricky to see. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Sailor1234567890

[Sailor1234567890]

Is that a ship's boy perched way out at the end of the bowsprit where the jibboom looks to have been cut of flush? Looks like a child to me. 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

9 minutes ago, Sailor1234567890 said:

Careful about her waterline there in that picture. It looks to me like there's an overboard discharge of some sort just below and abaft the fluke of that stbd anchor. It seems to be splashing the hull. You can see the darker wet region just above the waterline forward of there but the hull is wet a little higher where the water is splashing into the harbour there. There's also wet hull darkness below the outlet trailing aft. Leads me to believe there may have been wind coming from ahead at some point shortly before that picture was taken. Also makes the shape of her waterline there a little tricky to see. 

I already speculated about waves there otherwise her hull would be "amateurishy designed - not possible  " wave caused inward shape bump like..:) 

[ClipperFan]

7 minutes ago, Sailor1234567890 said:

Careful about her waterline there in that picture. It looks to me like there's an overboard discharge of some sort just below and abaft the fluke of that stbd anchor. It seems to be splashing the hull. You can see the darker wet region just above the waterline forward of there but the hull is wet a little higher where the water is splashing into the harbour there. There's also wet hull darkness below the outlet trailing aft. Leads me to believe there may have been wind coming from ahead at some point shortly before that picture was taken. Also makes the shape of her waterline there a little tricky to see. 

Sailor,

I should have been more specific. I meant the copper line above the entrance to the water itself. If you look at the Hull it's practically a straight line. The yellow metal plating reflects it too, as it doesn't bulge out until aft of her anchor mooring just before that dark spot you're referring to. If I were to sketch out her deck, it would reflect a very sharp profile.

[ClipperFan]

15 minutes ago, Sailor1234567890 said:

Is that a ship's boy perched way out at the end of the bowsprit where the jibboom looks to have been cut of flush? Looks like a child to me. 

Sailor,

I agree, he certainty looks like a young boy to me too.

[ClipperFan]

8 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

 

This last picture is new....and for some strange reason her deck timbers appear to be laid horizontal or port to starboard instead of  stem to stern.  I wonder if she received a second layer of deck planking in her fabrication to a canary?    Odd thing?

You can easily see that her poop rail is definitely canting inward and then straightens as it proceeds around the stern.  Notice all the hatch covers stacked on her deck...probably from her main hatchway...since it appears her aft hatchway is completely covered up by that new decking laid...and her aft capstan is also removed.

 

It is evident she suffered some damage to her prow in the area of her forward bit and just over her starboard name board.   Her moldings show damage as well.  This might have happened when she collided with that steamer/tug .

 

Rob

Rob,

Having these pictures unhindered by the bend in a book really allows us to confirm details we could only estimate before. I'm positive now that there were 11 turned stanchions at the front of Glory's large Stern House. 2 at each corner, slightly chanted inward, close to each other, possibly 2' apart, then there are 7 evenly spaced apart. They're also somewhat inset to the upper deck which serves as a roof. 

Meanwhile the counterpart turned stanchions of the poop deck are more rugged for their relatively short height and cant inward even more dramatically. A graceful wrought iron bar also appears just in front of the first stanchion. Meanwhile, from the scene of Glory being towed to Alaska, it looks like these same stanchions cant slightly outward around her Stern. 

I'm also struck how substantially all her Bulwarks are constructed. This was one ruggedly built ship.