Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, your progress is so exciting to watch. "GLORY of the SEAS" is now definitely looking like the Clipper Ship I see in the many impressive images Mike has shared with us. I'm glad you revised the scrollwork for her Cutwater and Naval Hoods. This image here is my favorite one of your latest ones. The form is simply beautiful. Great work!

Thanks Rich.   I pray you are recovering well?      I think my new corrections will be beneficial.   I’m extremely excited with your approval of my progress.   More sanding and fantail work and possibly I can move to the starboard side soon 

[Tony Hunt]

Nice work on the planksheer and lower rail trim. Lovely crisp profiles.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

13 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

While working the hull....it just pothered me.  It appears the bulkheads still needed filling in and I must have missed it...but once I primed and sanded...it became clear to me that further filling was needed.  the aft 1/4 to the fantail is spot on.but slightly forward of amidships..forward to the forkastle, there still is a depression.  Kinda like the hull loses its fullness.   So I applied more filler to compensate for the error.

You are still detailist and perfectionist Rob :)). Fantastic moldings lines around.  

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

14 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Ron Haug's proposed new line impressions for Donald McKay's Clipper Ship "GLORY of the SEAS" as sent to Rob and I a few days ago. Ron told Mike that in this design, he believes that somehow McKay has "drifted back to his old Packet Ship days of the 1830s even with the stem" with this design. 

Honestly, I'm personally very sad to say "here we go again." My impressions of Shipwright Ron Haug's lines are that he either never saw the incredibly detailed photos Michael Mjelde's shared with us or he doesn't see the same svelte vessel we see. Our past year's collaborative effort has led me to hope for so much more than... this. While this group has been concentrating on reconstructing Glory's true form for about a year, my own journey of discovering Donald McKay's last Clipper Ship has now been just over a dozen. I don't know how Mike will react but as I've always consistently said, my first loyalty is to the memory of Donald McKay and his lovely vessel. Mr McKay deserves better.....

Hm, frankly im not overenthusiastic.Looks like little moofted Michaels profile, with all whats been already said...extreme stern rise  with all consequences for stern shape etc..

[ClipperFan]

11 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Rich.   I pray you are recovering well?      I think my new corrections will be beneficial.   I’m extremely excited with your approval of my progress.   More sanding and fantail work and possibly I can move to the starboard side soon 

Rob, recovery progress is continuing to be the toughest of my life but I am slowly, determinedly improving. I also want to admit Rob that I am truly humbled by your generous compliment. I had no idea that you held my viewpoint with such high regard. Meanwhile, I personally continue to be in awe of your rapid, yet beautifully accurate modeling skills. Such careful attention to small details like the multiple moldings of Glory will result in what I am now convinced will be the most impressively accurate miniature of "GLORY of the SEAS" ever produced so far. Lacking anywheres near the modeling skills of either you or Vladimir, I want to only act as a guide to assist you both in realizing your objectives to achieve the most accurate reproductions possible. It has been the thrill of a lifetime to collaborate with other fans of Donald McKay's incredibly beautiful Clipper Ships, especially being able to communicate with one of my favorite Maritime authors as well.

So It's damnably frustrating to be sidelined by my slow recovery, especially since I feel an even greater sense of serious urgency to redo accurate lines of "GLORY of the SEAS" to finally do her true justice.

After doggedly pursuing real genuine faithful reinterpretation of Donald McKay's last glorious Clipper Ship for just over twelve and a half years now, I refuse to accept seeing another set of unfortunately crappy lines be published that do McKay's brilliance such an injustice.

What we have learned from over a year's worth of intense study and exhaustive evaluation of practically every inch of McKay's longest lived merchant vessel has been so encouraging and enlightening. Our mutual approach has consistently relied on precise, scientific, measured investigation of every incredibly clear image so generously shared by author Michael Mjelde. I personally am firmly convinced that what Donald McKay accomplished in his final effort was the culmination of his decades of single minded pursuit of excellence in creating a very swift merchant vessel with an extremely sharp Clipper Ship entrance and exit coupled with an enormous capacity for storage as well. Remember this amazingly durable Clipper was the very last vessel to accomplish the arduous Cape Horn journey from New York to San Francisco in under 100 days (1873-74 in 96 days - Pacific Marine Review). She also still holds the record for sailing from San Francisco, California to Sydney, Australia in 35 days, a feat accomplished despite poor vessel condition, as the Ship herself was crank due to insufficient ballast. With a strong beam wind Glory was practically on her beam ends. As a result the crew had to send down her stunsail booms as well as royal yards. Yet despite such poor vessel condition, she sailed with very favorable winds and weather (Pacific Marine Review). Imagine what she might have accomplished if she had been in proper trim.

Now it's time to pull all that intense detailed research we have done together into one coherent whole and produce a recognizable blueprint of what she truly looked like.

Edited July 9, 2021 by ClipperFan
factual corrections

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, recovery progress is continuing to be the toughest of my life but I am slowly, determinedly improving. I also want to admit Rob that I am truly humbled by your generous compliment. I had no idea that you held my viewpoint with such high regard. Meanwhile, I personally continue to be in awe of your rapid, yet beautifully accurate modeling skills. Such careful attention to small details like the multiple moldings of Glory will result in what I am now convinced will be the most impressively accurate miniature of "GLORY of the SEAS" ever produced so far. Lacking anywheres near the modeling skills of either you or Vladimir, I want to only act as a guide to assist you both in realizing your objectives to achieve the most accurate reproductions possible. It has been the thrill of a lifetime to collaborate with other fans of Donald McKay's incredibly beautiful Clipper Ships, especially being able to communicate with one of my favorite Maritime authors as well.

So It's damnably frustrating to be sidelined by my slow recovery, especially since I feel an even greater sense of serious urgency to redo accurate lines of "GLORY of the SEAS" to finally do her true justice.

After doggedly pursuing real genuine faithful reinterpretation of Donald McKay's last glorious Clipper Ship for just over twelve and a half years now, I refuse to accept seeing another set of unfortunately crappy lines be published that do McKay's brilliance such an injustice.

What we have learned from over a year's worth of intense study and exhaustive evaluation of practically every inch of McKay's longest lived merchant vessel has been so encouraging and enlightening. Our mutual approach has consistently relied on precise, scientific, measured investigation of every incredibly clear image so generously shared by author Michael Mjelde. I personally am firmly convinced that what Donald McKay accomplished in his final effort was the culmination of his decades of single minded pursuit of excellence in creating a very swift merchant vessel with an extremely sharp Clipper Ship entrance and exit coupled with an enormous capacity for storage as well. Remember this amazingly durable Clipper was the very last vessel to accomplish the arduous Cape Horn journey from New York to San Francisco in under 100 days (1873-74 in 96 days - Pacific Marine Review). She also still holds the record for travelling from San Francisco, California to Sydney, Australia in 35 days, a feat accomplished despite poor vessel condition, as the Ship herself was crank due to insufficient ballast. With a strong beam wind Glory was practically on her beam ends. As a result the crew had to send down her stunsail booms as well as royal yards. Yet despite undesirable vessel condition, she sailed with very favorable wind and weather conditions (Pacific Marine Review). Now it's time to pull all that intense detailed research together into one coherent whole and produce a coherent blueprint of what she truly looked like.

Wishing you steady recovery progress indeed Rich, i hope you can get some amusement from our friendly racing with Rob :)). Just so you know, it echoed again in my head when fairing a bulkheads that I have to be more precise as Rich wouldnt like to see some bumps etc...you see how effect those hours in front of computer had thru spring ;)....

[rwiederrich]

Spent a bit of time in the shops today.

 

First I laid the pre-deck for the poop deck

[rwiederrich]

Then I began to add the rail that goes around the stern

[rwiederrich]

I had to add a bit more filler and then on to the forecastle pre-deck

[rwiederrich]

I then decided to paint over the grey gunwale(I didn't much like the *Pearl* color suggested) so I painted over the grey with a white that added the two tome effect of pearl.  Personally...I'm building her after her major refit and I'm going with a more traditional color....and reviewing her images when she was in Alaska as canary...her warn gunwales appear to be white...or at least that is what they were repainted.

[rwiederrich]

I then cut and added all the framing for the starboard side and painted the bulwark the same grey blue....so when I repaint over it with the white, it will have the same pearl/blue/white color.

[rwiederrich]

I forgot to add the pics of the painted bulwark on the inside and the addition of the starboard gunwale.

[rwiederrich]

Now..I'll move onto the addition of the starboard main rail and the addition of the monkey rail as well.   I still have to tie them together at the stern...but that for another day.

[rwiederrich]

To finish things off for the day....I painted a coat of latex over the entire hull and I will again begin to sand and finish the hull some more.

It's a never ending cycle of sanding and filling...and sanding and filling.

 

I'll let this dry and then begin the process all over again....and finish up the stern and add the starboard planksheer and monkey rail trim.

 

I'll tackle the starboard naval hood and scrollwork after that.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Rob, this is indeed Donald McKay's Clipper "GLORY of the SEAS" shaping up in all her glory. To see his last Clipper come to life in three dimensional miniature like this is so thrilling to observe, especially after spending the last year viewing tantalizing images of her. Two dimensional photos just don't do her Justice. I've selected two of my favorites of the many pics you've shared. Most impressive is the top one where you can see the graceful transition from sharp Clipper Bow to full bodied Merchantman. The bottom image has been flipped in order to better appreciate the loveliness of her form.

My one request, I know it's purely a matter of taste, is that you reconsider leaving the waterways light blue. I personally appreciate the contrast with pearl and white trim, besides which it seems to have been a preferential hallmark of practically all of Donald McKay's Clipper Ships

[ClipperFan]

On 7/9/2021 at 9:05 AM, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Wishing you steady recovery progress indeed Rich, i hope you can get some amusement from our friendly racing with Rob :)). Just so you know, it echoed again in my head when fairing a bulkheads that I have to be more precise as Rich wouldnt like to see some bumps etc...you see how effect those hours in front of computer had thru spring ;)....

Vladimir my friend, after seeing how the actual "Cutty Sark" Museum, Greenwich, England has requested the honor of placing your massive 1:24th Clipper "Cutty Sark" for public display, I have no doubt you will give Rob quite a "run for the money!" Just remember too, especially in modeling at this fine level of meticulous accuracy, entirely scratch building from self developed ship's lines, sometimes slow & steady wins the race too. .

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

On 7/9/2021 at 11:30 PM, rwiederrich said:

To finish things off for the day....I painted a coat of latex over the entire hull and I will again begin to sand and finish the hull some more.

It's a never ending cycle of sanding and filling...and sanding and filling.

 

I'll let this dry and then begin the process all over again....and finish up the stern and add the starboard planksheer and monkey rail trim.

 

I'll tackle the starboard naval hood and scrollwork after that.

 

Rob

Rob! youre quick. main rail is beautifuly crafted.  we are just staring at what youve acxomplished now i woudl sell this one damn glorious Glory of the Seas with all her cargo fat belly glory and gracious clipper entrance / end. As i see correctly only monkey rail is to be fitted and you have her. 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

9 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir my friend, after seeing how the actual "Cutty Sark" Museum, Greenwich, England has requested the honor of placing your massive 1:24th Clipper "Cutty Sark" for public display, I have no doubt you will give Rob quite a "run for the money!" Just remember too, especially in modeling at this fine level of meticulous accuracy, entirely scratch building from self developed ship's lines, sometimes slow & steady wins the race too. .

Rich allow me to refrain from racing narrative.  it was meant like humor, im not a man of competing in this hobby at all.  besides, i cant compete with Robs building  ability not speaking of american composite masts sails etc so its pointless topic. yes i was surprised to see email after 1+ year , but unfortunately i dont have ship nor track record of it atm, but hopefully person i sold model to... this is vaguely offtopic but here it go....

even If i had the ship and i would certainly donated it to museum i assume it would cost me a fortune  even to deliver it to them ( due to shipping over size etc) ando there would have to be mutual agreement on shipment and tremendoul liking from their side to have it  nevertheless, its a fair bit of satisfaction for model builder to get such email for sure i never dreamed of when building it. sepaking of- its far from standard or perfection with planking etc...but sum up  seemes that cathegorical rigorous fashion of building and laying all planks as shipwrights do is not necesarrily needed to get reaponse from museum ...  lesson learnt. i remember i just put all my love to that vessel fro 1 year of my life . and photos are to stay  forever here at msw  so i will try to point her to person owing ship now. and now pls lets back to Glory.  

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Vladimir_Wairoa
add

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Rich allow me to refrain from racing narrative.  it was meant like humor, im not a man of competing in this hobby at all.  besides, i cant compete with Robs building  ability not speaking of american composite masts sails etc so its pointless topic. yes i was surprised to see email after 1+ year , but unfortunately i dont have ship nor track record of it atm, but hopefully person i sold model to... this is vaguely offtopic but here it go....

even If i had the ship and i would certainly donated it to museum i assume it would cost me a fortune  even to deliver it to them ( due to shipping over size etc) ando there would have to be mutual agreement on shipment and tremendoul liking from their side to have it  nevertheless, its a fair bit of satisfaction for model builder to get such email for sure i never dreamed of when building it. sepaking of- its far from standard or perfection with planking etc...but sum up  seemes that cathegorical rigorous fashion of building and laying all planks as shipwrights do is not necesarrily needed to get reaponse from museum ...  lesson learnt. i remember i just put all my love to that vessel fro 1 year of my life . and photos are to stay  forever here at msw  so i will try to point her to person owing ship now. and now pls lets back to Glory.  

 

 

Vladimir, my sensitive wife Peggy is constantly on me for my dry humor. She's right of course. More often than not, others don't realize I'm merely joking. It's tough to tone it down because I'm having harmless fun when I do it and can't seem to accept that people hear it differently.

Of course I wasn't serious about you and Rob being in any kind of a modeling race, that would just be plain silly. Besides which, as I've mentioned more than once, I personally have never seen a modeler produce such impressive results in such short time. 

In my own dumb way I was attempting to encourage you in your own endeavours as you build what I'm sure will be a fine model of "GLORY of the SEAS."

[rwiederrich]

13 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Rob! youre quick. main rail is beautifuly crafted.  we are just staring at what youve acxomplished now i woudl sell this one damn glorious Glory of the Seas with all her cargo fat belly glory and gracious clipper entrance / end. As i see correctly only monkey rail is to be fitted and you have her. 

Thanks Vlad, she’s does look like the photographs.  Still lots of sanding work.   I still need to add the monkey rail cap, but both sides need to be scribed before install and I will wool stem the transom prior to adding it

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Vlad, she’s does look like the photographs.  Still lots of sanding work.   I still need to add the monkey rail cap, but both sides need to be scribed before install and I will wool stem the transom prior to adding it

Rob, I'm unfamiliar with the wool stem process for the transom. Is that a typo? I know about steam bending but not the procedure you described. Can you please enlighten me?

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I'm unfamiliar with the wool stem process for the transom. Is that a typo? I know about steam bending but not the procedure you described. Can you please enlighten me?

Smart phones…….that is surely a typo.  I meant steam bending the transom.  You are correct.   I picked up some micro drills and some micro table saw blades to aid in construction 

[ClipperFan]

9 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Smart phones…….that is surely a typo.  I meant steam bending the transom.  You are correct.   I picked up some micro drills and some micro table saw blades to aid in construction 

Rob, I was trying to envision you somehow using steel wool or brillo pads, which obviously made no sense. Thanks for clarifying it.

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I was trying to envision you somehow using steel wool or brillo pads, which obviously made no sense. Thanks for clarifying it.

I think I would have a tough time reconciling steel wool and Brill pads in any *NEW* construction technique I might try to justify.   I'm out in left field...but not that far out. 

 

I talked to Mike and he says Ron is continuing to modify his stern drawings of Glory.  Also he said, he will keep us abreast of any info on his new publication and how we can acquire a copy.  I am....oh so looking forward to it.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

I think I would have a tough time reconciling steel wool and Brill pads in any *NEW* construction technique I might try to justify.   I'm out in left field...but not that far out. 

 

I talked to Mike and he says Ron is continuing to modify his stern drawings of Glory.  Also he said, he will keep us abreast of any info on his new publication and how we can acquire a copy.  I am....oh so looking forward to it.

 

Rob

Rob, while I'm relieved that Ron is reworking the Stern, quite frankly I as usual have a huge problem with his interpretation of Glory's Bow. My God, he actually has her prow bulging slightly forward below the waterline! What's up with that??? His Naval Hoods don't match and that should easily be fixed by looking at the lovely close up which clearly shows both the hoods and her Cutwater. Then there's her 7' sheer, which I see nowhere in his lines. I do not in anyway want this to turn into a p--sing match but his latest effort still is so far off from where we've arrived at. However I strongly feel Mike needs to know the truth. Especially if he plans on publishing these in his latest book. 

Honesty to me is always the best approach but how do you gracefully tell an experienced shipwright that his lines totally suck, again???

[ClipperFan]

Rob, Vladimir, honestly how can anyone see the two clear pictures of the lovely, sleek prow of "GLORY of the SEAS" and come up with these proposed lines??? It just doesn't make any sense to me. I know Ron's a highly accomplished artisan, as witness by his gorgeous half Hull of "Donald McKay" but he just still seems to be so far of the mark for poor Glory!

[ClipperFan]

guys, I am so frustrated by this stupid situation. I'm determined to finally get Glory's lines right but I'm still battling post op pain to recover and can't seem to concentrate on drawing. So maddening. Two days ago, I was so frustrated with my lack of progress that I went "cold turkey" and quit taking pain meds. Dubious decision for sure with expected results that I hurt like a son of a bitch but I feel like if I can just get beyond this grueling crucible my return to normalcy will accelerate. Then you will once again see my contributions of how Donald McKay's last, longest lived beautiful Clipper Ship "GLORY of the SEAS" (NOT an 1830s Packet Ship) truly appeared.

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

guys, I am so frustrated by this stupid situation. I'm determined to finally get Glory's lines right but I'm still battling post op pain to recover and can't seem to concentrate on drawing. So maddening. Two days ago, I was so frustrated with my lack of progress that I went "cold turkey" and quit taking pain meds. Dubious decision for sure with expected results that I hurt like a son of a bitch but I feel like if I can just get beyond this grueling crucible my return to normalcy will accelerate. Then you will once again see my contributions of how Donald McKay's last, longest lived beautiful Clipper Ship "GLORY of the SEAS" (NOT an 1830s Packet Ship) truly appeared.

I’m glad you are pursuing the issue further, however, I’m going to move forward in the direction we had already agreed upon.  My model will reflect what this group has skillfully uncovered.  The photographic evidence is, in my view beyond contestation.  I continue to hope your recovery is as uneventful as possible.

[ClipperFan]

4 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I’m glad you are pursuing the issue further, however, I’m going to move forward in the direction we had already agreed upon.  My model will reflect what this group has skillfully uncovered.  The photographic evidence is, in my view beyond contestation.  I continue to hope your recovery is as uneventful as possible.

Rob, I deeply appreciate your well wishes. As I painstakingly recreate my understanding of Glory's true lines, I will share them here first. I intend to include references to every single piece of photographic evidence which supports the lines drawn. Hopefully, it should be such a compelling body of documentary evidence that it will lead Mike and Ron to reevaluate Glory's true appearance.

[rwiederrich]

4 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I deeply appreciate your well wishes. As I painstakingly recreate my understanding of Glory's true lines, I will share them here first. I intend to include references to every single piece of photographic evidence which supports the lines drawn. Hopefully, it should be such a compelling body of documentary evidence that it will lead Mike and Ron to reevaluate Glory's true appearance.

It almost seems beyond comprehension that anyone could arrive at any other conclusion then what we arrived at.    The rub of the inconsistency lys in the fact we used 3 heads and we bounced ideas and observations off one another.  Ron with all his years of experience simply had himself (though that in of itself is significant).  It still did not allow for a peer review.  I think, if for no other reason, we had the advantage of numbers.  Not to mention the original author himself,  Mike Mjelde.   I’m satisfied with my representation, based upon our conclusions,  In spite of the current apparent mischaracterization.