Lady Nelson by KirbysLunchBox - Amati/Victory Models - 1:64 - First Ship build

[KirbysLunchBox]

Just now, glbarlow said:

Congratulations on the first planking, great work!

Thank you!  Couldn’t have done it without help from folks like you!  

[drjeckl]

Very nice work for your first time.  One tip: put masking tape on the prowl, keel and stem post, some heavy stuff.  Will prevent some dings and sandpaper scraps.  Question now is do you go with 2nd hull planking or tackle the deck?  I went with the deck to prevent me getting frustrated/bored with more hull planking.  Needed something different!

 

Deck planking has some 'look' decisions you will have to make:

1. What will the edge of the deck look like?  Check out the thread I started on this here: I eventually went with the Spirketting and a Margin plank.  If you go with a margin plank you will need some wider deck planks.  I bought some 5mm planks and instead of going with scarf joints, I edge bended an entire blank.
    
2. Then you need to decide how the rest of the planks will terminate on the margin planks: straight, pointy cut, or nubbed, or hooked.  My research found that during the time of this ship, the practice was hooked.  It's not a trivial exercise.  You'll also need the wider planks for nubbed or hooked.  A lot of people have gone with nubbed and it looks nice.  With hooked, you don't have to cut into the margin plank.
   
   Check out the October 10, 2020 post in my build log where I get into the details of all of this and check out MSW for other posts on these topics. 

Note that if you go with the deck now, you will get some experience with the 4mm walnut planks before you use these planks for the 2nd hull planking, since these also go over the inside of the bulwarks. 

 

I'm very happy I went going with the deck instead of going straight to the 2nd hull planking.  It got me more experienced working with wood before the 2nd hull planking.  I'm finished with it and am just cleaning up before I post on that.

 

Good luck...John

[KirbysLunchBox]

Thank you for the kinda words!  
 

I think I want to go deck first then bulwarks and then outside. Not sure if Inside bulwarks Or deck order matters. I think I have seen it both ways.  Thank you for the support. Much research I must do!
 

I do have a question for the first planking...  Do I need to fill these little gaps or is it good enough?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[drjeckl]

Best practice is to have the 1st planking as smooth as a baby's butt.  So yes, fill and sand.  And I use Elmer's Carpenter Color Change Wood Filler, here: https://www.amazon.com/Elmers-E914-Carpenters-16-Ounce-Natural/dp/B00K25F1UW/ref=sr_1_17?crid=3TEOEM5LL2HA5&dchild=1&keywords=elmers+carpenters+wood+filler&qid=1618691773&sprefix=elmers+carpenter%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-17

I feel the 16-ounce is worth it, not the smaller sizes.

 

I notice you have the beaded version of the multi-hands tool.  I've shopped for something similar.  Obviously, the Quad-Hands looks to be the best, but the most expensive.  Have you used it on this project and does it do the job?

 

John

[glbarlow]

You want the first planking as smooth and even as you can get it. It dictates the look of the second planking. 

[glbarlow]

1 hour ago, drjeckl said:

Quad-Hands

It is a difference maker and well worth it. I find the 4 hand option more to my liking with its smaller footprint. 

[KirbysLunchBox]

I was afraid you guys might say that. I had bought filler ahead of time expecting I would have too. Hopefully this is ok?

 

 

I haven’t used the 3rd/4th hand yet.  I bought it specifically for building this model. It has a nice heavy aluminum base, an ok magnifying lens and a light.       There is no way I can tie the little knots without something to help! 
 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08K31YHYL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_BS5KYDGHPCTAJN1WGGFH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[glbarlow]

My favorite 

more like toothpaste consistency than what you have.
 

The quad hands is only one solution. I’m sure what you have is fine.  

[Keith S]

That is an excellent planking job. 

[KirbysLunchBox]

1 hour ago, glbarlow said:

My favorite 

more like toothpaste consistency than what you have.
 

The quad hands is only one solution. I’m sure what you have is fine.  

Hopefully what I have works!

[KirbysLunchBox]

44 minutes ago, Keith S said:

That is an excellent planking job. 

Thank you!  

[drjeckl]

I believe the MinWax product will work without a problem.  But you certainly don't need a stainable filler.  However, I'm thinking that it is oil-based, whereas the Elmer's is water based.  If you use the MinWax product, you may be introducing an oil-based product into your build which could change the dynamic between oil-based and water-based products which I think you currently have just water-based.  I could be way wrong on this, but I'm sure Glenn will correct me since he has more experience than me.  His recommendation is the same as mine and they are both water-based.  What glue are you using to attach the planks?

 

.John

[Theodosius]

Hello KirbysLunchBox,

gratz to your finished very first planking! Looks good! I post here, because I like how you bite through the problems that occures and don't give up! And you managed your first plywood-gunport-patterns to bend and fit so much easyier than I did, cool!

As a first time builder, as you, I can't give you much good tips, but just one from my own so far experience: your first planks are so fat, that you could sand some more. A lot more. They you would have much lesser places where you need filler.

But again, the other helping members here give you more substantial hints then I can.

Like to follow your build!

[KirbysLunchBox]

Thank you Theo!  I am very nervous to sand much more for fear of sanding through. A little filler is far easier to deal with. But now I am concerned about my potential oil based filler.  Any others to weigh in? I plan to use acrylic paints when the time comes.  Thank you all!

[glbarlow]

It shouldn’t matter if it’s oil based on the first planking, may be an issue for second planking. 
 

You have plenty of wood to sand. Can’t have it all filler. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by glbarlow

[KirbysLunchBox]

On 4/18/2021 at 12:47 AM, drjeckl said:

What glue are you using to attach the planks?

I used a gel CA for the planks and everything else is PVA. I imagine I will use a combination on the decking and second planking. Probably all PVA for the first planking runs so I have more time to adjust. 

[drjeckl]

You will find that the 1st 4 x planks, covering the bulwarks, will not need any tapering, either at the bow or the stern.  After that yes.  How's your deck planning coming?  Or are you still sanding?😁

 

.j

[KirbysLunchBox]

I haven’t had a chance to get back to it yet. I need to do some more research on the decking and inner bulwark pieces. I have a mental idea, but I need to plan it out on paper. 

[drjeckl]

What I found very useful was a couple of chapters (in reality, I read the entire set) of Chuck's build instructions for his cutter Cheerful, here: https://syrenshipmodelcompany.com/revenue-cutter-cheerful-1806.php , particularly Chapter 7.  Give it a look.

 

.j

[KirbysLunchBox]

A little update. Some filler and sanding of the first planking. Hopefully this is good enough. I bought a razor saw and cut the stern post off with minimal issue. Made sanding SO much easier.  I don’t know if the Elmers filler is like this too, but this Minwax stuff is a mess to use. 
 

 

 

While I was waiting for filler to dry I did some sorting of the deck planking. It has quite a bit of graining that I am not sure I like. I just ran a wet finger over top to help bring out the color and grain and sorted them so I don’t have any random plank colors. I don’t know if this is a typical trick, but it is something that I picked up years ago building model houses for a friends train layout.  You can see how some of the planks are darker and some have a completely different grain pattern.  None of it is really that good looking to be honest. 
 

 

 

After reading some more on other cutter builds, I started to mock up mine. I noticed that there is not a consist line through the gun ports. It really makes me twitch. The plans are the same way. All the other cutter pictures I can find have a consistent thickness on the bulwark planks. (Distance between deck and gun port opening). I also wanted to make sure my modified cannons would line up well.  I plan to move all of the gun ports and sweep ports to be parallel with the deck using the pattern I made.      
 

The bottom plank has two layers of card stock glued behind it to make it sit proud of the other bulwark planks. This will all be painted red, so I didn’t care that it was different wood. 

 

 

 

honestly, the first hull planking wood would make better deck planking than the stuff I am supposed to use. If anyone has a suggestion on where to buy better wood, I am all ears!

 

The kit cannons are way to small to be 4 pounders. I drew my own up in cad based on some info from the web and 3D printed a prototype. The one in the picture doesn’t have the end on it yet.  I think I will still use the kit carriages, but they might be a bit small. 

[drjeckl]

If you want to get the same timber that's in the kit, I have found two places that supply Amati-brand timber: Wooden Model Ship Kit (in California) and Cornwall Model Boats (in the UK).  I have bought other accessories from both of these.  They both have pretty good turnaround, obviously higher shipping from the UK but do shop at both sites to compare.  If you stay with the Beechwood for the deck note that the parts list has it at 0.6 x 3mm.  Check yours but mine was 1x3.25mm.  (I didn't measure mine so if you need some at 0.6mm thick, do have  a deal for you.)  Model Expo has a good selection of everything also.  Get an account there and you can get a daily email on what they are currently discounting, something different at least every week.

 

22 hours ago, KirbysLunchBox said:

I plan to move all of the gun ports and sweep ports to be parallel with the deck using the pattern I made.

I would think twice about doing this.  It is not that obvious of the kit's deficiencies in this area.  Remember, this is a beginners kit.  Do you really want to scratch-build on this?

 

22 hours ago, KirbysLunchBox said:

I bought a razor saw and cut the stern post off with minimal issue

Surprised you needed to cut it off.  Using the appropriate dissolving solution for the glue you used should have made it easy to just pull it off.  Check out this thread: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28203-a-spot-of-glue/?tab=comments#comment-807736

 

23 hours ago, KirbysLunchBox said:

The bottom plank has two layers of card stock glued behind it to make it sit proud of the other bulwark planks. This will all be painted red, so I didn’t care that it was different wood. 

I like your gun port mockup.  What's missing I think is a margin plank, which is typically wider than the other planks.  The widest I was able to get was 5mm from WMSK.  And you should go through my first post to you on April 17 for planning the deck layout.  You will put in a lot of effort into the deck.  I wouldn't add to that by the re-working the gun ports.  Just saying...

 

John

[KirbysLunchBox]

I tried IPA shortly after I realized that I should not have glued on the stern post, but after much soaking and no budging, I stopped because I was afraid of messing up the MDF false keel and bulkheads.  I was afraid they they would poof up from the moisture. 
 

I know my affliction with the gun ports is silly on a first time build, but I like a challenge. Good, bad or ugly.

 

I am still struggling with the margin plank. Ironically when I google margin plank. Your question post to MSW is the first thing that pops up. I have read through it several times now.  I think I am going to go the nib route instead of the hook because I don’t want to mess with curved and tapered deck planking.   New boards are going to be a must for me now though. The beachwood planking just doesn’t seem right to me. The grain of the lime wood seems more appropriate. 
 

I really appreciate your help with all of this!

[drjeckl]

Good luck, buddy!

 

.John

[glbarlow]

We all get to experience our build and make decisions that suit us as the builder and represents what we choose to do. One clear thing about ship models is that there is not one clear thing. There are many ways to do the same thing, it may not suit how others would do it but that’s their problem not yours. 
 

This is your first build, the LN is well suited for that. For example, Walnut color variations are a common thing and blend together in the end or at worst add character. But this kit does have limitations, it’s not a high end kit
 

Enjoy and learn. Don’t stress about master level techniques or trying to match the work of others. Build the model and learn the basics for the next more advanced model and finish with the love to do another model. 
 

I built this kit in light work in less than 3 months to decide if I enjoyed modeling again after a 3 year absence. I did and now have 12 months into Cheerful. 
 

Have fun, learn things. But recognize this kit isn’t going to earn its way into a museum but you hopefully will have enjoyed your process. 

[KirbysLunchBox]

I have no dreams of grandeur with this model. I see it as an opportunity to learn and practice.  I figure anything I can work through on a cheap and small kit will save me the frustration on an expensive an complicated kit.  I appreciate all the words of advice and encouragement!

[drjeckl]

What Glenn said.

 

John

[KirbysLunchBox]

Glenn and John,

 

I think you guys are maybe trying to save me from having too high of expectations or maybe failing or giving up on the hobby all together.  It also feels like I am being scolded for wanting to set higher expectations for myself...  Either way, I appreciate all of the advice that you have given and I want to continue receiving that advice!  I just want to say that I am enjoying my build and I look forward to each next step!  I know I will have questions as I go forward and I will depend on this community to help me find those answers.  Thank you for being a part of my journey!

[drjeckl]

Enjoying the journey is all that matters.  And I also pushed myself to try different things, especially the deck.  And I feel sorry that you feel like you were being scolded.  That wasn't my intentions and I'm sure it wasn't Glenn's either.  I was giving you my experience as a first time builder, like you and progressing through the same kit as you.  Take the advice or don't.  It's that easy!  It's your journey!

 

John

[KirbysLunchBox]

Found some time to work on the Lady Nelson and I have managed to complete the inner bulwark planking on the port side. Even though it was a little extra work to adjust the positioning of the gun and sweep ports I think the end result was worth it. 
 

 

The gun port closest to the bow didn’t need any adjusting, and it got worse as I went back to the stern. The last sweep port was almost completely covered by the spirketting plank!

 

 

 

 

 

[glbarlow]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:40 PM, KirbysLunchBox said:

being scolded for wanting to set higher expectations

That certainly wasn’t my intent, sorry you perceived my comments as such. My point was not your limits, but the limits of this kit. 

 

Gun ports follow the sweep of the deck and follow the sheer, they aren’t always parallel.