What do you use your mill for ?

[Martin W]

The problem is that my budget won't allow for diamonds, or even rubies, but more like aluminum earrings with a matching glass bead necklace. 

[fnkershner]

Do you think she will notice the difference between Diamonds and CZ? Give it a try. I know with mine she has a nose for the more expensive items. Somehow every time we go on vacation to the Carib. We come home with a shiny bauble that cost as much as the air fare.

[Meredith]

I don't have one of those wife things.....but my partner is addicted to buying stuff - so I can just roll my eyes if he has a go at my tool and toy collection He has no idea of the price of them - so I explain NOTHING :)

 

In actual fact he has been urging me for weeks to buy something for myself - he has an average of 10 parcels or more a week coming - and that's been for months now. So I think he feels guilty about how much stuff he has had lately and I have been super responsible and just reducing debt and paying all the living costs:)... ohh and it helps that he didn't get me anything for my birthday last week.. so he has been urging more and more for me to buy something.

[WackoWolf]

Just think of what you can make for the wife with a new Lathe and Mill. Tell her you can make anything that she breaks. LMAO. Heck try it and she if she goes for it.

[fnkershner]

Meredith - If you need help with Ideas on what to buy I am sure we can help!  Lets see I would start with something from Jim Byrnes. I know you have the Table Saw. What else do you already have that he sells? I recently completed my set of Model Machine Tools. I am quite pleased with myself.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[Martin W]

Wait a minute -- how can you possibly complete your set of Machine Tools????

 

Floyd, you and Wacko are serious temptors.  Having seen photos of the Wacko workshop, (Wack-shop?), I could easily succumb to your temptations.  BUT, the Rattlesnake is my second build, and I'm only just now getting a sense of what goes into a model ship.  If I sunk my "savings" (ahem) into a sherline or Taig, I think it would be comparable to someone who's only walked around the block buying the top mountain climbing equipment.

 

But here's another question:  I have read that with the Micro Mark/Grizzley micro mill it can be hard to find accesories. I would hope that Proxxon has plenty to choose from (and I'm still leaning toward something within my budget & skill range). So, what would you experienced folks consider to be the essential accessories?  What, for example (and here's where I show my ignorance and inexperience) does a 4 jaw chuch enable you to do that a 3 jaw chuck would not?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Meredith]

I have Jims table saw and his rope walk... and the draw plate - but that hardly counts as "tools"  that's so small no-one could possibly notice it turning up in the postal system and it doesn't make noise or get plugged in - so definitely doesn't count

 

Tonight I was rather proud of myself... I used the table saw... the proxxon disk sander.. and the proxxon scroll saw.. my little mitre saw. I re-made all the thwarts on my bounty launch. The kit supplied stuff was only bass wood.. and for some reason it didn't really fit right (and my boat hasn't grown - I even tested it out over the mold/frame thingie and it was still a tight fit....

BUT even though the thwarts are very simple pieces.. they look so nice now. Unfortunately I cannot tell you what wood they are made out of - something exotic. My first sand/cut - I removed the pencilled in name of the wood. But it is so much nicer that the basswood. I am very pleased with it.

Only trouble is - I had to cut it from some little pieces of timber that were really too big for the table saw. so I had to do two passes - one from the top and then flip over and do the other side. But even with my inexperience I still managed and they turned out pretty good. Now comparing them to the bass wood ones.. these LOOK like timber.. and the basswood just looks like a nasty piece of balsa wood.

 

Hmm.. so onto the purchases... in doing my little job tonight - the Jim thickness sander looked like a very useful tool....might seem a bit boring - but it would have made my job a little easier and more precise I think. The end result is quite precise...but that took a bit more effort than the thickness sander would I feel.

 

So.. advice again.... I have a heap of exotic timbers - some little pieces about 1 inch depth/width and about 10 inches long (think very long pen blanks) and then some other boards of timber maybe 1 or 2 inches thick and various lengths, Would a normal size table saw be useful to bring them down to Jim table saw size or would another tool be more useful for me???????????? Some of the bigger pieces I would really like to prepare - as they are King Billy Pine, Huon pine and Tasmanian Myrtle (fabulous timber to work with) and I would like to make a boat out of them for my dad (he is very ill). I think he would really appreciate the timbers - they are from our home state and there is quite a bit of family history behind them.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Meredith

[fnkershner]

Martin - Meredith understood what I meant. Either through my local club or personally I have every tool that Jim Byrnes makes. I personally would live to have a mill. I would even love to have a lathe. But so far even I (A confirmed ToolAholic) can justify the purchase. I wouldn't use either of them very much. I delayed buying the Thickness sander until now. and I would not have bought it if the Club had not decided it was useful for everyone. (We all chipped in).

 

Meredith - the fact that you can take the piece and turn it over and do the second cut and not see any difference is an indication of skill and quality of the tool. Like you I thought I would use a full size Table saw for my modeling. I did buy one and I had fun building furniture and other projects. But I must admit that the only thing modeling related that I used it for was cutting the plywood base. 1 to 2 Inches thick is not too bad for the Byrnes Saw. You know you can raise the blade and you already have found that you can make 2 cuts.

 

Can you post some pics of the Tasmanian Maple?

[Meredith]

Its 3am here now - so I will get some photos when the sun comes up. I have a few little pieces of it on my first boat and loved working with it. Some pieces don't look so grand in the raw state (rough sawn- or whatever...)

I might even find better pics online.. give me a few minutes...

[Martin W]

Ah, Floyd, you're luck you've got a club!  That would be a great way to find out about tools, machines, kits, techniques,

 

And Meredith, I would like to see that wood too.

 

Martin

[Meredith]

TASMANIAN HUON PINE

Tasmanian Huon Pine. Botanical Name: Lagarostrob so you do not produceos Franklinii.

An ancient native conifer, huon pine has been dated at over two thousand years of age making this species one of the oldest living trees on the planet. Beautiful golden yellow colour, fine grain and easy to work. Huon Pine being softer and heavier than spruce it makes quieter guitars but has a very rich sustained sound. Steel string guitars with a smaller body tend to sound bigger.

KING BILLY PINE

King Billy Pine. Botanical Name: Athrotaxis selaginoides.

It has extremely beautiful coloured wood, with the sapwood being yellow and the heartwood a reddish pink to brown with impressive growth rings of distinct colouring a pliable timber easily worked, it's physical properties is comparable to Western Red Cedar.

TASMANIAN CELERY TOP PINE

Tasmanian Celery Top Pine. Botanical Name: Phyllocladus  Aspleniifolius.

Native Conifer, because of it's stability, durability & appearance celery top is highly prized. Pale white to yellow when first cut and obtains a golden hue with age. A light but very dense timber, fine grain and easily worked. Gary Rizzolo of Rizzologuitars has used it with great success.

 

Density
(air dry) kg m³ Shrinkage Sound velocity
(along grain) m s¹ MOE GPa
(10^6 lb/sq. in) Dimension Unit Green to 12% MC 646
624-668 Tang. 0.19 3.4 4823 * Rad. 0.12 1.6

[Meredith]

TASMANIAN MYRTLE MYRTLE BURL

Tasmanian Myrtle. Botanical Name: Nothofagus Cunninghamii.

Myrtle is known for its strength, volume, and balance.

Myrtle is a striking wood with rich reds, browns and almost orange tones, the colour is vibrant combining subtle variations in tone with the texture and sheen of wavy and fiddleback features to produce a surface alive with character and individuality. Myrtle produces beautiful Burl and is becoming a highly sought after tonewood for acoustic and solid body electric guitars. Bends well, easy to work and finishes to a high luster, Robust tap tone.Known for it's wide tonal range and warm overtones, superb tonewood.

 

Density
(air dry) kg m³ Shrinkage Sound velocity
(along grain) m s¹ MOE GPa
(10^6 lb/sq. in) Dimension Unit Green to 12% MC 705
681-729 Tang. 0.32 6.8 4680

14

 

 

[Meredith]

maybe a clearer pic of the Myrtle

 

[mtaylor]

But here's another question:  I have read that with the Micro Mark/Grizzley micro mill it can be hard to find accesories. I would hope that Proxxon has plenty to choose from (and I'm still leaning toward something within my budget & skill range). So, what would you experienced folks consider to be the essential accessories?  What, for example (and here's where I show my ignorance and inexperience) does a 4 jaw chuch enable you to do that a 3 jaw chuck would not?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

 

Martin,

There micros and minis.. and the terms get cross-used a lot.   Here's the MM Micro:

This one has some tools issues as it uses M4 hardware to secure items to the table.  The biggest problems are modifiying and fitting accessories as they are made for the "mini" type.

 

Here's the MM "mini" or the so-called "R8" type.  R8 is the type of taper used in the spindle.

It's basically the same as the Grizzly and some others and also the Sherline tools fit it.  It uses the M6 size hardware to secure items to the table and is a lot more standard as the table is bigger with the slots further apart than the micro. 

 

4-Jaw and 3-Jaw chucks are used for holding different workpieces.  4-jaw is for square or rectangular stock and 3-jaw for round.  If you get the 4-jaw, get the self-centering.  Usually the chucks are used with lathes or on a mill in conjuction with a rotary table.  I'm not a machinist and am still learning power tools like the mill. 

 

Just a note... if I had known what I was getting into, I would have bought the "mini" or R8 mill. 

[Meredith]

So back to mills - as mentioned about there was a thread on MSW1 about what people thought were the most desirable "extras" to purchase with the mill. But if course I have forgotten what they are. Can we get some input from those who have mills and successfully use them

[mtaylor]

Meredith,

 

Here's my list for mill must haves:

 

A vice.

A clamp kit (or homemade one) to clamp down the workpiece, vices, etc.

End mills.

Collets (they work so much better than than a chuck).

 

I'm also finding a rotary table useful for various things also.

 

I'm sure there's more, but that's what I'm using.  I have few other bits that I've never used so I don't know how useful they are.

[Meredith]

Thanks Mark

 

I am sitting working on my Bounty Launch and planning the big purchase

 

I DID buy something last night - an artists easel that tips to hold all my plans. So it's a start . Just gearing up to hit the "buy" button on a Sherline!!!!!!

[ianmajor]

Meredith,

 

Mark has covered all the basic tools to get with milling machines. One fairly cheap item that I would add is an Eclipse pin chuck. I have included a couple of pictures to show what I mean.

 

The first photo shows my EMCO micromill with a collet holder in the top of the picture. The collet set I have which go in to this holder can hold drill bits, mill bits etc from 1mm diameter up to 10 mm. To hold anything of a smaller diameter than 1mm, I fit  the Eclipse pin chuck in to one of the 6mm collets then the small bit is clamped in the pin chuck. The pin chuck is in place just below the top of the photo.

 

Also in the photo are a couple of clamps to hold the work and a machine vice.

 

 

 

The second photo shows the components of the collet and pin chuck set.

 

On the left are the two parts that make the collet holder, then comes the set of 10 collets. On the right is the Eclipse pin chuck with one of its (micro 4 jaw) collets fitted along with two other micro collets for different bit sizes. Notice - this type of pin chuck has a cylindrical tail that allows it to be gripped in larger chucks or collets.

 

Not only do I use this pin chuck in this way but also as a hand drill or to hold small components when I work on them.

 

 

 

[Meredith]

Many thanks!!!

 

Just the sort of info I need

[Martin W]

Mark and Ian -- those are helpful bits of information.  Many thanks.  And thanks in particular, Mark, for explaining the difference between the two Micro Mark mills (or Grizzley).  Plenty of people have pointed out that accessories can raise the cost of a piece of equipment significanlty, so it's good to have in mind which ones will actually matter when it comes time to learn the individual capabilities of a mill.

 

And Meredith, that wood is stunning.  Is it mostly used for guitars, or have you used it in modelling?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Meredith]

That's was just a cut and paste from a site that appears to cater for instrument makers.

King Billy and Huron pine was much prized for full size boat making many years ago in Tasmania.

Now it's only reclaimed stuff you can used and I am pretty sure they have a special licence to sell it and have to prove its not new felled stuff. Joinery was also made from it many years ago. I had a house with Huon pine doors and the wood smells wonderful especially when you cut/sand/plane it

[Meredith]

http://www.woodenboatcentre.com/html/discovery_centre.html

Specialises in restoration of old boats and traditional boat making skills

[Martin W]

Very nice link, Meredith.  That's something to fantasize about!!

[jml1083]

Meredith,

 

I have the Sherline and really like it. Solid machine and as noted previously, lots of add ons available. When I got mine I also got the Sherline vice. You can buy cheaper but the Sherline vice has sides that are milled square which is real helpful as you can use the squareness as part of your set ups. Also their vice has a unique action so that as you tighten it the work is snugged down and there is very little chance that it can pop loose and come out of the vice while milling. Another thing you can get with your mill (money is really the only limit) is an angle table. You can mount the vice to the angle table and then set the whole thing at some angle other than 90°. Finally, as Mark says, the rotary table is also a really helpful attachment.

[tkay11]

I've noticed nobody is mentioning the weight of these lathes. A Sieg X1 (similar or identical to Grizzly etc), which is referred to as a mini-mill and is often recommended, weighs 40Kg or so. I would find it difficult to get that kind of weight up two flights of stairs comfortably, let alone find space for it and then find a worktop that is sufficiently strong.

 

It was only after realising this that I cut down my aspirations for a mill and thought hard what exactly I would be using it for -- so I'm now considering the smaller and lighter options (including the Proxxon MB200 with KT70 table) as they might well cover everything I'm ever likely to use them for. Certainly lots of people use the Proxxon MF70 very satisfactorily. From the specs I've read the head on the MF70 doesn't seem to be that different from the standard Proxxon mini-drill that I have so it's tempting to try that in the MB200.

 

This is not a particular recommendation or suggestion -- just something people might want to consider when setting up their workshops in light of the work they are likely to undertake. Of course I'd love to have a Sieg X1 which is very cheap for what it does -- the weight and size simply make it impossible for my room.

 

Tony

[mtaylor]

Tony,

 

The mills do come apart.  I've moved all my tools at least once and break them down to easily handled bits.   Same workbenches and some other things I have. 

 

The workbench would be a function of what you have locally.  I got my workbenches from a local home improvement store. 

[tkay11]

That's something I hadn't realised, Mark. Good thought and more food for it. Thanks.

 

Tony

[rtropp]

_Hi,

_{In another thread about tools, I was trying to find out if there is a compound / x-y table that would fit on a Dremel Workstation for rotary tool.}

 

_{Wait... don't yell at me. I know I said Dremel and some would consider that sacrilegious.}

 

_{I have never done any milling and I wanted to try out some of the basic practices before considering the value of purchasing a fairly expensive tool.  I already have the Dremel  Workstation for the rotary tool.  I hoped to set up something on the cheap to provide an initial learning experience.  I understand their is compound table available for the Proxxon rotary stand so I had hoped there would be something similar that would fit, or could by jury rigged, onto the Dremel.}

 

_{I appreciate any suggestions,}

_Richard

[CAd My Fingers]

Hi Richard, here's an entire thread about x-y tables & dremels. I didn't read through the posts but perhaps it'll be helpful: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1643-x-y-attachment-for-dremel/

 

I use an x-y w/ my Proxxon & it's OK for very light stuff, but want to do more robust milling so will likely upgrade to a regular mill in the coming year.

 

Jay

[Martin W]

Hi Richard -- I took part in a thread about an x-y table for the Dremel workstation, hoping, like you, to get it done on the cheap.  For the most part I was discouraged from trying to set up the x-y for the Dremel, since that workstation isn't accurate.  One or two people, though, did find the proxxon x-y to work just fine with the Dremel.  JPett ended up getting a Vanda Lay setup that he uses with his Dremel and likes it -- you might go to the Vanda Lay Industries site and see what they have.

 

These are the decisions that will determine whether this becomes an expensive hobby, or a really expensive hobby.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin