Glory of the Seas 1869 by Vladimir_Wairoa - FINISHED - 1:72 - medium clipper

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

.I know its very hard to please Rich at this point by anything mediocre or sloppy now as he is on a watch not let any wrong vague or simply bad measurement slip thru to ruin her fame

The worst thing is to notice an inaccuracy....and then to muster up the nerve to tell you...just after you spent all that time and skill.  but it is far more important that you get it right...then be inconvenienced.

I can't speak for Rich...but I struggle when I see an inaccuracy.....do I just let it pass....not wishing to appear prudish...and let your fine model retain its error.....or do I bravely point it out so you can enjoy the most accurate model you can produce.  its clear you want the latter.

 

Oh....one thing...are you going to treat your mast and yards with a coat of varnish or simply leave them raw.....?

 

Rob 

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

i will be at total ease when making capstans :)) where noone guesses or knows what it was.

You betcha.  there are some small details that have been overlooked....but I be Rich can find a newspaper clipping that identifies the Patented capstan design McKay used...I know I've read it somewhere.  I might hold off till I know for sure if you have that freedom after consulting with Rich.

Personally, I added period capstans that may or may not be arguably as accurate as was actually used on Glory....but as you say...there is still some freedom of expression there.  Some small details that are undocumented can be artistically created at the modelers convenience.

 

I wait to see what you come up with.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

You betcha.  there are some small details that have been overlooked....but I be Rich can find a newspaper clipping that identifies the Patented capstan design McKay used...I know I've read it somewhere.  I might hold off till I know for sure if you have that freedom after consulting with Rich.

Personally, I added period capstans that may or may not be arguably as accurate as was actually used on Glory....but as you say...there is still some freedom of expression there.  Some small details that are undocumented can be artistically created at the modelers convenience.

 

I wait to see what you come up with.

 

Rob

Rob, Vladimir here's the J. Gardner Capstan, patented August 3rd, 1869. Since Donald McKay always used the best components for his vessels, it would make sense that this is most likely the ones installed on "GLORY of the SEAS." 

[ClipperFan]

Rob, Vladimir, as you can see, It differs greatly in appearance from the WD Grimshaw Capstan, patented November 28th, 1865

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

oh my goodness this happens to me always. just when i finish 2 of them working my *** up   what a beautiful pics. thanks for posting Rich. 

 

@ Rob, thanks you are way too much praising my poor modeling, speak up any remark you have! but i see you yourself modeler understand fragile modeler selfesteem when somethings done - but wrongly.:) 

speaking of spars etc... when I return to them, I indeed plan to varnish them black. masts only between caps and tops, rest leaving natural. i already tried to paint one black. I a bit struggle with what to do with all brass work - whether to leave it or to blacken it. i would blacken it but not sure of result . will see. 

Rob is it true that all standing rigging is utterly competely black? Lanyards as well? it was not practise in cutty sark as i remember but i think it was american tradition,  correct? 

 

after finishing davits, and deck working stuff First i will next  focus on footropes , have to think what i want to achieve what i am capable of and im not sure what i can do. i read that vertical strings are better made of wire as they keep it in place and not twist than rope...decisions decisions. i will have to try some samples before and will post result . oh by the way, speaking of futtocks, were those already wire at that time? i wish :))  

 

i read some article from Crothers yesterday, about bilge wheels spokes. they were S shape before for reason of cooling down and not only for aesthetic. i didnt know. i thought it wad only fashion thing. glory had S shape. Balcultha ones were not  that design anymore because sookes were fastened with screws therefore straight. i suppose ...

 

 

V. 

 

[rwiederrich]

Thanks Rich...I knew you'd come through with some impressive imagery.

 

My Glory capstans are similar to J. Gardner's design.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

15 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

but i see you yourself modeler understand fragile modeler selfesteem when somethings done - but wrongly.:) 

Well we try to humble ourselves every day.  No one likes to *remake* what they have been toiling over and thinks is a *Masterpiece*, to learn it is anything but and needs replacing.   The brutal task of being true to the prototype, forces us to correct our own mistakes and gently point out those of others.  We scratch builders can be a finicky bunch.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

21 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Rob is it true that all standing rigging is utterly competely black?

In essence this is true.  Standing rigging was weathered by means of a blackening(most likely dark, dark brown).  A tar based preservative was applied to protect the line from rot.  Though lanyards are sometimes considered running rigging (falsely),because they are basically a pulley...they are brought taught...securing the shroud, then secured tightly and for their protection, coated in a dark tar/varnish like substance to protect the line from the damaging results of salt/sea/sun weathering.  In essence the lanyard is part of the standing rigging.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

29 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

speaking of futtocks, were those already wire at that time?

Glory's futtock shrouds were either metal cable or iron bar.  I suspect they were iron bar...because the bars acted as support structure for the tops.  Because...remember..... the top cross members do not interfere with the lubbers hole....making the top less rigid from an engineering/structural stand point.

 

But bracing the outer section of the top with 3 strong iron futtock shrouds that bolted to the futtock iron mast band makes all things quite rigid.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

35 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

i read some article from Crothers yesterday, about bilge wheels spokes. they were S shape before for reason of cooling down and not only for aesthetic. i didnt know. i thought it wad only fashion thing. glory had S shape.

Indeed.  The S shaped rungs acted as wind generating fans to aid in cooling the pump members from ever heating during continual use.  The metal bushings used as bearings(Within the iron pillow blocks) for the iron crank shaft to turn through, were most likely made from *Oil-lite*...an oil impregnated soft bronze metal widely used when there was going to be metal to metal contact.

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

42 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Indeed.  The S shaped rungs acted as wind generating fans to aid in cooling the pump members from ever heating during continual use.  The metal bushings used as bearings(Within the iron pillow blocks) for the iron crank shaft to turn through, were most likely made from *Oil-lite*...an oil impregnated soft bronze metal widely used when there was going to be metal to metal contact.

 

Rob

much appreciated Rob. I will do iron bars. perfect. V. 

[ClipperFan]

Rob, Vladimir I wouldn't trouble myself too much over period accurate capstans. Unless it states in documents, either form could have been used. As for Footropes, from the viewpoint of modeling simplicity, I think real thin black wire would be easier to create realistic loops. Unless thread is seriously waxed, it will twist and contort in odd ways.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

update. Hatch. Capstans, windlass, stairs....

Now IS no longer empty...Still Few Minor  things missings....front fife rail, and then moving to back where lifeboats were stored.... Will be next chapter. 

Took ok me 5 hours to make hatch. Ouch. Thanks for viewing,comments etc... 

 

 

 

 

 

[rwiederrich]

Man Vlad...you're speeding along.....getting those carpenters to work over time.  Great job...very nice.

 

The only deck work I still have to do myself is add the lower rail frame to the fore mast fife rail and mount the port and starboard davits.  They are easily bumped...so I'm waiting for now.

 

Great job man.....

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

12 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Man Vlad...you're speeding along.....getting those carpenters to work over time.  Great job...very nice.

 

The only deck work I still have to do myself is add the lower rail frame to the fore mast fife rail and mount the port and starboard davits.  They are easily bumped...so I'm waiting for now.

 

Great job man.....

 

Rob

Thanks much Rob, this was getting to fairly small objects territory, Im getting used to work with with surgical clamps more and more   and expanding my dioptric lenses 😕  

Edited February 11, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[rwiederrich]

2 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

expanding my dioptric glasses

I've long gone away from using my unaided eyes.   I need my magnifying head band to do nearly all the work on my Glory.  I'm just so thankful I still have steady hands.

 

Keep the post coming.....

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

On 2/11/2022 at 1:24 PM, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

update. Hatch. Capstans, windlass, stairs....

Now IS no longer empty...Still Few Minor  things missings....front fife rail, and then moving to back where lifeboats were stored.... Will be next chapter. 

Took ok me 5 hours to make hatch. Ouch. Thanks for viewing,comments etc... 

 

 

 

 

 

Vladimir, beautifully done detail work on the windless, capstans and fore Companionway. It's obvious you put a lot of emphasis on the specifics of the Companion. Maybe it's due to your close up pics but I have a concern about the relative size of your Companionway in comparison to other deck fittings. While her deck profile in this image should be slimmer at the Bow, her deck fittings are for the most part very accurate. If you look at upper and profile images, you'll see that Companionway is no higher than the Foremast Fife Rail, matches width and is actually a little shorter too. Actually, when it comes to deck hatches, the Fore Companionway is the smallest of all. I hope I'm wrong and it's just the excellent close ups that make your nicely detailed hatch look outsized in comparison.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, beautifully done detail work on the windless, capstans and fore Companionway. It's obvious you put a lot of emphasis on the specifics of the Companion. Maybe it's due to your close up pics but I have a concern about the relative size of your Companionway in comparison to other deck fittings. While her deck profile in this image should be slimmer at the Bow, her deck fittings are for the most part very accurate. If you look at upper and profile images, you'll see that Companionway is no higher than the Foremast Fife Rail, matches width and is actually a little shorter too. Actually, when it comes to deck hatches, the Fore Companionway is the smallest of all. I hope I'm wrong and it's just the excellent close ups that make your nicely detailed hatch look outsized in comparison.

Thanks for comment Rich. i was awaiting and expecting  this exact observation. No need to be alarmed. I worked it out exactly from this pic and from companionway measurement Michael provided. its exatly fiferail tall. problem that is bothering you  we both with  Rob have unfortunately low quarter deck therefore when taking pics it all looks bigger than should as bow deck is approx 2 or 3 milimeters low than should and that makes quite a big visual difference obviously. i was pointing this already many times...i will oost pic with alread finished front fiferail ....

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

31 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Thanks for comment Rich. i was awaiting and expecting  this exact observation. No need to be alarmed. I worked it out exactly from this pic and from companionway measurement Michael provided. its exatly fiferail tall. problem that is bothering you  we both with  Rob have unfortunately low quarter deck therefore when taking pics it all looks bigger than should as bow deck is approx 2 or 3 milimeters low than should and that makes quite a big visual difference obviously. i was pointing this already many times...i will oost pic with alread finished front fiferail ....

 

Probably if i Made hatch going Lower lower toward back síce IT wouldnt block deck view i Will see if i Can change IT...  Few new pics. Mast boots, front fife, etc...Windlass handles bars socket i longer than should. Masts are secured so they Can be taken out from their Holes, after ungluing boots. 

Still Few things missing, big ramp across deck holding lifeboats, lifeboats itself, chimneys and davits and eyebolts secured ať deck. Fiferails were strongly fitted as front one holds thickest of All ropes, main stay. Ať this point each Lower masť IS secured , ready fór rigging. I Will go Up partially Taking advantage of having správe arouund and a ability to mount each mast continually. But thats Still faraway. After finishing deck ill go finishing yards and that Will be it fór some time. ...

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[ClipperFan]

Vladimir, like Rob, you're truly more of an artisan than a modeler. Simply beautiful work.

If you're planning on angling back the fore companion, might I suggest you shorten it too? According to the deck layout, this hatch way is a little shorter that the fore fife rail. It's also just a bit closer to the front of the rail than currently positioned. Being closer to the fife rail would also draw attention away from the height of the forecastle too.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

18 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, like Rob, you're truly more of an artisan than a modeler. Simply beautiful work.

If you're planning on angling back the fore companion, might I suggest you shorten it too? According to the deck layout, this hatch way is a little shorter that the fore fife rail. It's also just a bit closer to the front of the rail than currently positioned. Being closer to the fife rail would also draw attention away from the height of the forecastle too.

Thank you for kind words and help -  pointing to right direction  Rich. 

I was able to Lower IT   and lowered base as Well that i think helper tremendouslyi think. Deck arose and back of hatch is approx Windlass size. 

Im summig Up deck. One interesting thing. Fór a long tíme i felt there IS something odd, disturbing eyesight with my glory that put me off, distracted me a way that there was not cohesion..

 some element that destroys natural  harmony of colors and structures special comparing when  looking at Robs Glory. 

I never figured out  what IT IS until today and It came by surprise. That upper Windows and Doors at deckhouse were the cause - disbalance between natural color wrongly put black that l doesnt belong there...etc...-  I tried to uniform IT with white and wow, i think glory came to life.it was  Simple untreated baswood with black rounds were a long that was disturbing element. I noticed dramatic change after only started to paint itT white...like..wow ...

Gottcha..apology fór many pics. . I tried to take AS many photos of new deck and  completed full deck. IT was difficult than hull fór me.  weak point.  Now she demonstrates different look . IS IT more Elegant isnt it. What do you think guys?

Also i updated Few missing things. Inserted center rims into captain Cabin  Windows !, And painted hatch, and Few little details, as Rob use to say Devil IS in details. So door handles were added,  other All  things, chimneys.... Im done. I decided not to mount ramp fór boats as there Will be not any ať the back - only  on the top of big house. i Now i Will come back to yards and that Will be it, fór Few month, ready fór rigging. . I must say i like her Better now despite imperfection and thats important fór me.  Thanks much fór observation. I want to improve  one thing - skylight with proper glass Windows in IT Will see...now She should be sound. hope you enjoy. 

Before: 

 

 

Now: 

 

 

...rest

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[ClipperFan]

Vladimir, nice work! Your fore companion looks so much more accurate and in scale now. In this case, less is truly more. Painting the fore house white definitely brings out contrast nicely. She continues to build into an impressive vessel. Great work!

[rwiederrich]

    Great update and pics Vlad.  Your corrections and alterations make the difference for sure.

Super job...she is definitely polishing up.

 

Rob

 

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

4 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

    Great update and pics Vlad.  Your corrections and alterations make the difference for sure.

Super job...she is definitely polishing up.

 

Rob

 

 

Thank you folks for your  feedback. Im glad that effort IS Made to right direction V. Till next. 

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

    Great update and pics Vlad.  Your corrections and alterations make the difference for sure.

Super job...she is definitely polishing up.

 

Rob

 

 

Vladimir, apparently your improvements are so impressive it's caused Rob to lose his dentures 😉

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

30 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, apparently your improvements are so impressive it's caused Rob to lose his dentures 😉

Made my day 🥳

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Last chapter yards are done i consider fpotropes rigging so i Will make IT when rigging. Now glory gets Few months of rest while i Will scout assemblings blocks, ropes...for final chapter. If not till end of summer -autumn. Ouch. Thank very much everyone for watching support likes comments. etc...ill tune in when back. Watching Robs meanwhile. 

 

Its Better i dont know what IS IT rigging clipper - otherwise i would stop Few photos from yardmaking. I intend no more going thru this hell.  I Guess this Will be my last clipper build. Will downgrade with age :)) and  finish with canoe :)) im not yet settled on nasting colors. as i cannot paint lower masts i can only varhish those. i play  with idea to paint tops black or white to give nice constrast   probably from mast collars up.... - from tops up all varnished ... doublings balck. yards black. bowsprit black booms  varnished. . so maybe i will post one update more. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[ClipperFan]

Vladimir, Rob I took another look at this image of Glory's main deck, with specific emphasis on her bilge pump flywheels. At first, I thought it wasn't possible to determine whether her iron spokes were straight, like the 1886 Ship "Balclutha" or "S" curved, as we discussed earlier.

Sure enough, when I enlarged the image it does clearly show that Glory's bilge pump flywheels did indeed have the "S" curved iron spokes and not straight ones. They're also narrower than the mainmast fife rails, since the wheels appear to align neatly behind them. Viewed from above, the fife rails look like they're a square and the bilge pump mounting would look smaller and rectangular. 

[ClipperFan]

16 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Last chapter yards are done i consider fpotropes rigging so i Will make IT when rigging. Now glory gets Few months of rest while i Will scout assemblings blocks, ropes...for final chapter. If not till end of summer -autumn. Ouch. Thank very much everyone for watching support likes comments. etc...ill tune in when back. Watching Robs meanwhile. 

 

Its Better i dont know what IS IT rigging clipper - otherwise i would stop Few photos from yardmaking. I intend no more going thru this hell.  I Guess this Will be my last clipper build. Will downgrade with age :)) and  finish with canoe :)) im not yet settled on nasting colors. as i cannot paint lower masts i can only varhish those. i play  with idea to paint tops black or white to give nice constrast   probably from mast collars up.... - from tops up all varnished ... doublings balck. yards black. bowsprit black booms  varnished. . so maybe i will post one update more. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vladimir, your yardarms are an absolute thing of beauty! It's amazing how graceful and symmetric they all are. Most impressive is how they're uniformly thicker in the center and gradually narrow towards the outer ends. I can even imagine how massive these critical spars must have appeared on Glory herself. Well done!

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

12 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, your yardarms are an absolute thing of beauty! It's amazing how graceful and symmetric they all are. Most impressive is how they're uniformly thicker in the center and gradually narrow towards the outer ends. I can even imagine how massive these critical spars must have appeared on Glory herself. Well done!

much appreciated Rich. I was taking extra care measuring and eyeing constantly upon sanding off. There is hell of a work behind model, many univolved people seeing finished boat never imagine.:) thanks a lot. V.