Lord Horatio?

[Smile-n-Nod]

Why was Admiral Horatio Nelson called "Lord Nelson" rather than "Lord Horatio"?

[mtaylor]

I always thought it was "title" followed by "last name".  

[Smile-n-Nod]

17 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

I always thought it was "title" followed by "last name".  

Maybe I'm confusing "Lord" with "Sir"

[allanyed]

It depends and is pretty complex, depending on if oral address, written, direct conversation, introductions, etc.  Eldest sons of dukes, marquesses, and earls use their father' most senior subsidiary title.  It would be My Lord or Lord Taylor for example. 

 

For Dukes, they would be addressed as Duke or your Grace, but his younger son Brett would be addressed as Lord Brett.

 

It really is complex but if anyone is interested in the details, Google -- Forms of Address in the United Kingdom.

 

Knighthood of course is a different thing altogether.  It is Sir followed by first name, but his wife would be Lady followed by last name.  If she was knighted, but not her husband she would be Dame followed by first name and her husband would be Mr. followed by last name with no distinction of his wife being knighted.

 

 

 

 

[bruce d]

19 minutes ago, allanyed said:

It really is complex but if anyone is interested in the details, Google -- Forms of Address in the United Kingdom.

... and get the asprin ready. 😉

 

For what it is worth, the rules of the past carried a lot more weight than those of today. There was a clear nonconformist message in the title of Conrad's 1899 book Lord Jim. Virtually everyone at the time knew this not a proper form of address.

 

HTH

Bruce

[Louie da fly]

If you were "created" as a peer (i.e. your father wasn't a lord - you were elevated to the peerage for services to the Nation), you generally got to choose what title you were known by - if you lived at Smallbridge, for example, you could choose to be known as Lord Smallbridge. Or you could be known by your existing surname, which happened a lot - Lord North, Lord Melbourne etc. Or in the case of Smallbridge, Lord Hornblower.

 

When Arthur Wellesley was granted a peerage, he couldn't call himself Lord Wellesley, because his brother had already taken the name. So he became "Arthur, Viscount Wellington of Talavera", or just Lord Wellington - later (as he went up the ranks of the peerage) he became successively the Earl, Marquess and then Duke of Wellington. Whatever rank in the peerage you were, you could either be called by that rank (Viscount So-and-so) or just "Lord So-and-So".

 

Nelson's full title (leaving out his navy rank) was "Horatio, baron Nelson of the Nile". Or he could be called just "Lord Nelson", or even "Nelson". Later the King of the Two Sicilies granted him lands in Bronte (Italy) and a further title and he signed himself "Nelson and Bronte".

 

Steven

[Louie da fly]

Oh, I forgot to mention - when i was young my twin obsessions were Nelson and heraldry, so I became familiar with Nelson's coat of arms, granted to him after the Battle of the Nile - not [edit - Oops! Should be NOTE] the ships and, on the diagonal line on the shield, the mortar bombs.

 

 

In 2000 I was in the UK and visited Westminster Abbey and there was a row of tiny coats of arms of important people along the walls. I said to my wife "Look, there's Lord Nelson's coat of Arms" and a woman who was one of the official guides heard me and said - "Oh, that's it, is it? I'd been told it was here but I didn't know which one it was."

 

Score one for the home team .

 

Steven

Edited May 8, 2021 by Louie da fly

[allanyed]

Steven, as a Nelson fan, have you signed on to Adam Preston's Trafalgar site and pod cast?   He has been working with a number of folks in the television industry to get a series made about Trafalgar,  with a major side story surrounding the relationship of Nelson and Emma Hamilton.   We have been communicating and he is in the process of getting folks to sign on to his podcasts and website in general which will give him the ammunition he needs to get the series off the ground.    A little background is in the following email I received from Adam yesterday. 

Hi Allan 

 

Thanks for your message - it really is great to have your support on this. What I am attempting is certainly not easy and every bit of help is appreciated. 

 

I quite understand that podcasts can be a bit of a turn off as there are now so many - my podcast is just one of the ways that I am getting the word out about “Trafalgar". I am also hoping to monetise the podcast when the audience gets above 2000.

 

But perhaps a bit more detail as you suggested would be helpful at this stage. 

 

“Trafalgar" was originally commissioned by a company called Working Title Television which was the TV arm of the well known Working Title Films. Because of their support I was able to spend three years researching and working on the screenplays but they were only going for a BBC series and when the BBC turned it down - more on political grounds than anything - they did not pursue the project and they are no longer trading. 

 

Because it was such a huge opportunity I put my life and soul into the work and, in the process, became very much a Georgian navy enthusiast. I now work occasionally for The Trafalgar Way and have given talks to adults and children all over the UK. 

 

The quality of the scripts is definitely very high. I gave them to Hugh Bonneville <star of the TV series and movie, Downton Abbey> due to a chance encounter and expected not to hear from him again. Instead he called me up in a state of some excitement and told me he wanted to help me get the project off the ground - because the writing was 'first class'. But when he approached broadcasters they said that they did not believe that there was an audience for this kind off thing and that Nelson was a figure who was not known outside of the UK. I do not believe this is true - and I also believe that this is one of the greatest true stories in history - the scandalous romance with Emma and Nelsons inexorable climb to the limits of heroism make for absolutely gripping drama when told authentically.   You do not need to know, and be a fan of, Lord Nelson, to be captivated by such a story. 

 

So I have set myself the challenge of proving that there is an audience. A very large subscriber list can not only do that but can also be active in helping to get the project up onto the next stage. If I reach 10,000 then inevitably such a large base will provide opportunities to then get a new development/production company involved, because they will see that the interest is there. A large subscriber list can also help with feedback, spreading the word, networking, press, and generally in exponentially building the potential audience and a general sense of excitement - a buzz - about the project. Needless to say I am very passionate about making “Trafalgar” - a passion which I am sure many model makers experience when creating replicas of the beautiful ships of the Trafalgar era.  

 

I hope that answers your query. Feel free to use any of the above info. I would also be happy to create a short video of 4 or 5 minutes in which I would explain what I was trying to do if you think that might help. 

 

For now the best thing that people can do is subscribe and share this website address http://trafalgar.tv

 

And I am always looking for new ways to get the word out. 

 

Thanks again 

 

Adam 

 

I am posting about this project in a few places here at MSW as I am sure there are a lot of members that would love to see this project come to fruition, myself included.  I have no involvement in the project other than trying to give Adam some help in getting folks to sign on as an indication of interest in seeing this project happen.

[Louie da fly]

Just subscribed.I wish it every success. But where's the podcast?

 

Steven

Edited May 8, 2021 by Louie da fly

[allanyed]

Thanks Steven,

Try this

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/trafalgar-squared/id1563155730     

There is a trailer, then episode 1. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by allanyed

[TomShipModel]

I'm signed on as well.

 

An interesting note is that I was in London in July 2005 with a short side trip to Portsmouth to do a deep tour of HMS Victory.  Since it was the 200th Anniversary Year of the Battle of Trafalgar there were a few special events including a mock battle between the Red team and the Blue Team.  My wife and I went to St Paul's in London.  I made a point to visit Nelson's crypt and behold, it was closed for cleaning and refurbishing!  On the 200 anniversary; can you imagine?  There was a very nice display, but that was it.  Five years latter, I was in London again to visit my daughter who was doing an internship.  Again, I went to St. Paul's specifically to see Nelson's crypt.  This time it was open, but the lights were turned down so low that it was extremely dark.  In any case, I hope that this event gets rolling.

 

Tom