HMS Victory by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100 - PLASTIC

[Bill97]

Ian this is a good close up photo. I don’t remember who it is from. May be your’s. It shows a number of the lines and the jib boom traveller. My thimbles on the traveller may be a little to big maybe. I also notice that in this photo that the jibsail line is tied to the loop (#3 in the diagram) on top the traveller. I understood Longridge’s instruction to tie the outhauler to that. Is that wrong?  If so where does the hauler attach to the traveller.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Bill97

[Kevin-the-lubber]

10 hours ago, Gingerterry said:

This kind of leads me to think that it may have been retooled recently to address people's reviews

I bought my kit about 10 years back and the quality of the pressings is/was pretty good, very little flash, few sinkholes and good detail. The issue with the deadeyes is the design rather than moulding, they don’t have a groove around the edge for rope to sit in. The wood grain is always going to be debatable, at this scale it would be invisible and people often sand this back on the hull especially. On the whole I’d say it’s a much better quality kit that the revell Cutty Sark and is holding up well. That said, it would be a shame for them to retool exactly as is. They could lift the kit up to ‘superb’ by redesigning a few bits. Though maybe that would take all the fun out of it!

[Ian_Grant]

OK Bill I managed to confuse myself re-reading about xxxhaul lines last night but now I have it sorted.

 

That photo is not mine; it is incorrectly rigged. As shown on pg 235 the jib stay attaches to a thimble which is located between the arms of the shackle for the outhaul.

 

Yes your thimbles are too big. I used eyes cut off from my etched brass eyebolts. For the flying traveller I gave up and had no thimbles.

 

As for rigging, I now remember that by mistake I rigged the jib outhaul using the block on the left side of the traveller, which should have been for the downhaul. But after realizing this I just decided to leave it and rig the downhaul to starboard. The run-off effect of this was I rigged the flying outhaul to starboard, not to port, since they're supposed to be on opposite sides. So don't get misled by my earlier comments above regarding the jib outhaul being to port.

 

But I made another mistake. For the outhauls, the block on the bowsprit cap should be on its lower front face, not the side. See Longridge pg 234, "....a single 9in block, hooked to an eyebolt in the lower end of the fore face of the bowsprit cap." This makes sense since the outhaul exits the sheave at the bottom of the round jib boom. On the same page he states two sentences later that the standing end of the inhaul is made fast to an eyebolt in starboard side of the bowsprit cap i.e. the opposite side of the outhaul.

 

The jib outhaul eyebolt being on the front face of the cap is shown by Petersson in the drawing I posted in post #804.

 

So to summarize, you need two eyebolts at the lower end of the front face of the cap, each having a single block attached. Port is for the jib outhaul, starboard for the flying jib outhaul. You also need an eyebolt on each side of the cap. Port is for the flying jib inhaul, starboard for the jib inhaul.

 

When you make your flying traveller the block on its right is for the flying downhaul, its left for the flying outhaul i.e. opposite to the jib traveller. Longridge did not show a drawing for the flying traveller.

 

As for the outhaul tending to lie in the thimble for the martingale at the bottom of your traveller, I would simply tweak it to port since it uses the port eyebolt on the cap's front face.

 

One more thing to note - all flying jib lines running in and out along the bowsprit must pass above the sprit topsail yard or it would not be possible to set the sail.

 

Good luck Mr. Phelps.

[Bill97]

Thanks my friend. This does make since now. You are a great teacher. Ought to teach a class on this subject. I told my wife yesterday that when I started the Victory I had no intention of learning all the ins and outs or reasons for ship rigging. As with my other builds, it was just to assemble an attractive model to display. It had always been glue this line from here to there and from time to time pass through a pulley maybe. No real idea what all those lines do or why. Just follow the instructions. No one who has ever viewed my ships is very knowledgeable of rigging and therefore have never said “you know that rigging line right there is wrong”. They just usually say “wow Bill these ships are beautiful!” and that is about it. Now that I am working on the Victory with your help and guidance, along with Kevin, OC, Daniel, Marc, and others, my eyes have been opened to a whole new exciting world of engineering although often very frustrating. As someone who during my younger working years was a craftsman I find this fascinating and love it. I find myself saying to myself “this is going to take forever!”  Then I realize and say “so what, what if it does you have no where to be.” Someday it will be complete and everything I learn will help tremendously when I start the Soleli Royal. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Bill, I keep meaning to ask, now that you're in the thick of rigging, were those blocks any good? I really won't be in the least offended if you said no or they are a complete PITA. I mostly want to know because I'm quite close to having to attach my own deadeyes to my new pin rails on the CS and if it turns out they fail or have other big shortcomings, better that I know now.

 

I'm having a lot of fun with the CS. New deck trials have gone really well, same with pin rails etc. I'll post about it again soon but, unsurprisingly, I'm ending up spending a lot longer on it than planned. I guess that's inevitable when every step is a learning exercise. I still wouldn't know a gusset from a gannet though.

 

My but you're making strides on the rigging, and it lifts the model so much, doesn't it.

[Bill97]

Hey Kevin. How have you been. Your blocks are great. I have not used to many of them yet because in prep for the Victory I had purchased a bunch of wood blocks and deadeyes. I plan to use the ones you sent me for my Soleli Royal. However, I have found that if I am careful I can drill out the center of the small deadeyes you made me and use them as thimbles. I have used some for that purpose. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Oh good, glad some of them are proving useful. I’ll recycle the files for the CS. By the time I get back to the Victory I’ll probably have added to the collection, like you I hadn’t even heard of thimbles. I think for ultra-small sizes you’re probably better off with wood anyway and I can see myself buying these. I bought the stern decoration for CS from Hismodel a couple of weeks back and he included some samples of his tiny deadeyes, which are works of art. In a similar vein, I saw some Cornwall model boat brass stanchions and other parts at the weekend which were also impressive.

 

[Bill97]

Ian check this out. If you can make out my scribble. Tell me if all is correct. Curious about the flying outhaul on the  flying traveller being on the opposite side as the flying jib outhauler. 

[Ian_Grant]

Yes that is a good visual summary of my previous post.

 

You're right about it seeming odd that each inhaul is on the opposite side from the associated outhaul. I think I was wrong again....sheesh. The jib traveller pg 235 has the inhaul block to starboard. The belay diagram pg 266 lists the jib inhaul on a timberhead slightly to starboard of centre. So far so good since we also have the inhaul eyebolt to starboard.  But it lists the jib outhaul belayed also to starboard. I think I got confused because mine was to port by mistake as I said before.

 

So, to correct myself yet again 🙄, on your diagram just swap the connections to your two blocks on the front of the cap. That makes more sense and leads more conveniently to the belaying points given on pg 266.  All your guys etc are correct as shown. The block at top left is flying inhaul not outhaul.

 

The only remaining "funny" I see is that the downhauls remain on the opposite sides from their associated in- and outhauls. 🤪   This seems unavoidable since the downhaul and inhaul blocks are on opposite sides of the travellers. Unless they crossed the downhauls over the bowsprit somewhere? We'll never know as Longridge omitted them.

 

God only knows where I eventually belayed them all.....evidently I don't!

 

Bill, sorry for all the confusion. Order, counter-order, dis-order!

Edited January 24, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Bill97]

Hey Ian don’t apologize I am so thankful. I may find myself doing the same when I start the mast. Rather get it straight on paper before actually rigging. And I guess the rigging process on the flying jib traveller as far as the inhaul and outhaul lines are the same?

Edited January 25, 2022 by Bill97

[Bill97]

Kevin the CS was my second build several years ago after I got back into the craft. The Constitution being the first. What a long way I feel I have come since then. I am so anxious to see what an artist like you can do with it. If your blocks and deadeyes, which I have had the fortune of using, are any indication of what you can do your CS is going to be fantastic. Will enjoy watching your build. 

[Bill97]

Ok Ian this should be my updated sketch if I understand correctly. What do you think.  Thumbs up or down?

[Bill97]

Woo Hoo. Got it. Thanks my friend!  

[Gingerterry]

Has anyone here purchased the new heller brochure hms victory instructions. It is becoming available at a few sites and wondered if it was a must have, or just buying it for the sake of buying it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill97]

I have the new Heller instructions for the Soleli Royal and looking at it I wish I had the new instructions for the Victory primarily for the rigging instructions. Fortunately there are plenty of builders here on MSW who graciously share their expertise. With their help I can not justify spending even more to purchase the new instructions. Last I saw it is rather expensive. But if you can afford it, it is well worth it. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

17 hours ago, Bill97 said:

the CS was my second build

I probably should have made it my first to begin with, it's a little easier than the Victory, so long as I don't go too mad with remakes. The range of ships in this scale is a bit limited, isn't it, and whatever you go for first you're likely to end up with a few challenges.

[jim Landis]

The new Heller Victory instructions are listed on the Heller site, but I haven't found a retail vendor that has them yet.  HISModels (http://www.radekshipmodels.cz/en/) is going to order them soon...

[Bill97]

This is a European company I found on line that sells it for 30 Euro. Not sure if there are limits as to where it can be shipped. 
 

https://www.besserepreise.com/index.php?page=productDetails&productNo=1080897176-glo&search=doofinder

Edited January 26, 2022 by Bill97

[Bill97]

Ok gentlemen another technical question. The spritsail topsail yard attaches to the Jibboom with a parrel, not the flying Jibboom correct?  The jib traveller goes on the Jibboom. Therefore I would expect that the jib traveller should be set further out the Jibboom than where the spritsail topsail yard is positioned, or does that matter?  I have seen pictures where the traveller is behind the topsail yard and others where it is in front. Which is correct, or is either?

[Ian_Grant]

Sprit topsail yard's parral is on the jib boom.

 

I've never seen a pic of Victory's traveller inboard of the yard. Reference Longridge running rigging plan.

[Bill97]

So Ian this picture would be incorrect?  

[Ian_Grant]

Touche!! (Don't know how to put the accent over the "e").

 

Don't know where that's from, and I only have a few books, but Hackney, Longridge, and Lees place the traveller out near the end of the jib boom. It is also placed there in Geoff Hunt's many paintings of Victory (I have his book "The Marine Art of Geoff Hunt").  In fact, Lees mentions that the traveller was abolished about 1815, and the jib stay just led through a sheave at the end of the jib boom.

[Bill97]

You know I actually don’t remember where I found it but I am going to go with your expertise because that is how I have it so far and don’t want to change it 😀

[Bill97]

Thank you guys for the 👍.

Moving on to some of the bowsprit running rigging and then into the masts. 

[Gingerterry]

Hi guys. Does anybody know how long it usually takes to order photoetch from Dafi. Thanks

[Bill97]

I can check to see if I have the date I ordered mine and when i received it. 

 

Daniel (Dafi) mailed mine on June 21st and I got in the mail July 19th.  If you ask him here or message him he can tell you the current processing time from when you order and he drops it in the mail (Deutschland Post).

Edited January 28, 2022 by Bill97

[Bill97]

Continuing to rig the bowsprit. Based on your direction Ian I have completed a good part of it. Still some to go. Still have to figure out the routes of the downhaulers. Don’t tell Adm Nelson but I changed the timber heads that I am belaying the lines to in order to get more direct straight lines that don’t cross each other. Since I replaced the flying jib with a brass rod I did not have a shrive at the tip to run a thread through so I simply tied on a block to serve the purpose. 

[Ian_Grant]

Bill, looks good. You're still moving quickly.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Bill97]

A curiosity I have is the spritsail that goes on the top spritsail yard. The way the martingales run down to the dolphin striker it seems as if the sail would touch them unless it is a real short sail. 

[Bill97]

Took a break from running rigging lines around the bowsprit and decided to install the lower deadeyes for the shrouds. Got Daniel’s etched plate #3 that has the brass chains and wood deadeyes. Used a thread around each mast head to try to get the deadeye holes to line up so when I rig the upper and lower deadeyes together the threads will run at an angle toward the mast. Got them installed on the port side. Still need to add all the chains under the channels. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Bill97