Schooner heads 1700s through 1800s

[Dr PR]

I have been trying to determine where the heads (latrines) were on small to mid sized schooners (60 to 100 foot between perpendiculars) from the late 1700s through the 1800s. I haven't found much information about them.

 

After the bows were closed in with no beakhead I wonder where the seats of ease went?

 

Here are a couple of photos of the Wawona from the Historic American Engineering Records (HAER). It was a three masted lumber schooner built in 1897 in San Francisco, CA, USA. The vessel had a fo'c'sle deck above the main deck at the bow. In this photo looking aft from the bow this overhead deck had rotted away, exposing the winch and the port side seat of ease to the elements. A short "bulkhead" afforded some privacy. Photos do not show the starboard area. The vessel rotted away and was scrapped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this view looking forward (below) you can see the short bulkhead behind the ladder on the port side leading up to the fo'c'sle deck.

 

 

 

 

Photos of the hull do not show any openings in the hull side in the area where the seat of ease was located.

 

The Wawona was very similar to the C. A. Thayer that is in the nautical museum in San Francisco. But the HAER plans and photos for the Thayer do not show the seats of ease. They show one internal water closet in the aft cabin.

 

So the Wawona photos show one possible solution. Any one have examples of other heads on smaller ships that didn't have the elaborate beakheads like the larger ships?

 

PS: I read through the "Development of External Sanitary Facilities Aboard Ships of the Fifteenth to Nineteenth Centuries" thesis by Joe John Simmons III. It deals mainly with larger warships and has nothing about smaller vessels.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Dr PR

[wefalck]

It is quite possible that buckets were used and that the seat of ease contained a bucket, rather than opening to the outside.

 

Sometimes small vessels had in later years small deckhouses at the forward bulwark one both sides (one may have been the paint-locker) with a half round roof. 

 

That's for 'serious' business, otherwise you just pee over the lee-rails or into the gutter ...

[Dr PR]

Yes, it was important to choose the lee side!

 

I thought of the bucket idea and I am sure it was used on some ships. The "honey bucket" was in use in many households until the advent of running water and flush toilets. It would be "normal" to use them on ships.

[wefalck]

They still seem to have been in use in lower end housing between the wars in Germany … they were called ‚gold buckets‘ …

[druxey]

Which reminded me of when I was a small child who read early. At my grandmother's was a shared toilet off the landing. The 'works' were a Victorian era extravaganza with a highly decorated bowl. I was mildly terrified to read the name of that particular piece of china. It read,  "The Shark". 

 

But we digress!

Edited June 15, 2021 by druxey

[georgeband]

The Admiralty drawings for Haddock (1805) show two large cupboards at the stern, either side of the rudder. They are about 5 feet high, 2 feet wide and 2 feet front-to-back at the deck, more at the top. The one to starboard is labelled as a pantry while the one to port is called the 'necessary'. In the UK we now call the 'necessary' the toilet and in USA it is often called the bathroom. The drawing shows a door that opens forward so there was some privacy unlike the seats of ease in the heads. 

 

I have attached a pdf copy of a Masters thesis by Joe John Simmons about seats of ease. He wrote it in 1985 and it has plenty of detail for those who want to know including line drawingsSeats of Ease Simmons-MA1985.pdf. It's a good read while you are sitting at your leisure... 

 

George

[bruce d]

George, that thesis is a breath of fresh air in this subject. Thank you for providing a ray of light on a shaded corner of the hobby of modelling.  👍 

Edited June 17, 2021 by bruce d

[wefalck]

That breath of fresh air might be needed   Although, the sailors of old usually had lots of that, when going over that business.

 

Smaller boats, such as fishing boats had no facilities of any kind, one had to hang the bottom over the rails ...

[georgeband]

Phil, Bruce, 

 

The thesis makes many references to an article by Munday in "Ingrid and other studies" from 1978. Two websites claim to have pdf versions but a search suggests that the sites are scams and should be avoided. There are a few copies in Abebooks and various second-hand or charity shops for £15 - £20 but I do not have enough interest to increase my book collection on a minor topic. Do any of you have access to a copy? 

 

George

[davyboy]

Had a good chuckle reading this. Back in the late 1960's I was stationed in Bahrein. Our sea angling club went fishing most weekends on one of the Arab Dhows. The "facilities" were a wooden crate roped to the stern with a couple of planks knocked out of the bottom,a bucket on a rope for performing ones ablutions.    At least the sea was warm there 

 

Dave 

[Dr PR]

George,

 

Thanks. I know that some schooners had similar "closets" at the stern, and at least one had something like this near the bow, port and starboard. But these were relatively large vessels (greater than 100 feet between perps). For smaller vessels I am inclined to agree with Wefalk about the "gold buckets."

 

I have read Simmon's thesis a couple of times to learn more about the subject. My favorite part is on pages 96-97 where a seaman was punished for painting an "uncaulked seam." It is hard to keep a straight face when pondering this subject.

 

The "Ingrid and Other Studies" paperback sells for $137.05 on Amazon. That's a lot of bread for a short article about heads.

[GrandpaPhil]

On 6/15/2021 at 3:51 PM, Dr PR said:

George,

 

Thanks. I know that some schooners had similar "closets" at the stern, and at least one had something like this near the bow, port and starboard. But these were relatively large vessels (greater than 100 feet between perps). For smaller vessels I am inclined to agree with Wefalk about the "gold buckets."

 

I have read Simmon's thesis a couple of times to learn more about the subject. My favorite part is on pages 96-97 where a seaman was punished for painting an "uncaulked seam." It is hard to keep a straight face when pondering this subject.

 

The "Ingrid and Other Studies" paperback sells for $137.05 on Amazon. That's a lot of bread for a short article about heads.

 

Ingrid And Other Studies is $21 plus $14 shipping on Abebooks 

 

Plate V of the History Of American Sailing Ships by Howard I Chapelle shows a single seat of ease to either side of the bowsprit, on the head, on the Prince De Neufchatel.

Please ignore my notes.  This was my copy that I used to build the hull of my model.

Edited June 18, 2021 by GrandpaPhil

[Dr PR]

Thanks for the info. Chapelle's "History of American Sailing Ships" also shows a four-holer in the head of the Bainbridge in Figure 19 (page 123), and possibly "water closets" at the stern. I suspect that every ship that had a head also had seats of ease in the heads. But what about vessels that had no head?

 

The drawing of the Subtle (1808) on page 235 shows cabins or water closets at the stern. The vessel was 78 feet length on deck and 139 tons.

 

The Plate VIII (after page205) of the Joe Lane and the drawing on page 215 shows low stern water closets and lockers at the stern and more substantial two-holer water closets port and starboard just aft of the fo'c'sle deck. Joe Lane was a relatively large revenue cutter of 1851, 100 feet at the load water line and 153 tons.

 

The Wawona of 1897 had similar facilities. I suspect most/all vessels of about 100 tons or greater that did not have a head would have had similar water closet accommodations, but very few drawings depict them.

[druxey]

Some smaller vessels that had headwork did not have space for a head, The heads were located inside the bulwarks on the forecastle. An example of this is Speedwell of 1752. (From the Royal Museums Greenwich, Collections.)

 

 

 

[Dr PR]

Druxey,

 

Thanks. That is what I suspected, and enlarging the image of the foc's'le I can see a seat of ease port and starboard aft of the catheads. No covers or "closets". Not much more than a pissdale with a seat.

[jud]

In 1965 I was the Boat Puller aboard the 'Cape Race' out of Bellingham, WA., She was a 36' long  King Salmon troller. We took her to SE Alaska for the season and brought her back that fall. She was equipped with a head, used for storage, the facilities were a bucket with a line attached to the bail, kept handy, leaks were done over the lee side, if underway or anchored out, if in populated areas the bucket did double duty. Just toss it in the drink to get several inches of water in it, do your duty and over the side it went for a good rinsing, had to watch the speed of the boat to prevent it from becoming a sea anchor. Only two aboard, no problem. I would suspect that in the days of old an assortment of provisions for relieving yourself without fouling the vessel or going overboard was the norm. Those provisions were probably a reflection of the ships rig which created different yet predictable wet areas, that were avoided.

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by jud