HMS Spartiate by Admiral Beez - Heller - 1/150 - PLASTIC - kit-bashing the Heller Le Superbe

[Admiral Beez]

One item on the original shipyard plans that’s missing on the Heller kit is the skylight on the poop deck.  I’m going to try to mock something up there.   It’s a strange omission on the kit.

 

The kit comes with some extra 12 pounder barrels, and some carriages, but not the carriage side panels.  I suppose that’s just from efficiencies on the sprues.   I was thinking about making a pair of 12 pounder carronades for the poop deck, cutting the barrels short and removing the wheels from the carriages.  

[Blue Ensign]

Not necessarily a strange omission, remember it’s a French ship you’re basing your model on. What would be strange is the inclusion of a Fore Jeer Capstan on a British ship, they were common on French ships of the period. That strange erection on the Fore deck abaft the fore mast is the jeer capstan.

 

B. E.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Blue Ensign

[Admiral Beez]

On 4/26/2023 at 1:55 PM, Blue Ensign said:

What would be strange is the inclusion of a Fore Jeer Capstan on a British ship, they were common on French ships of the period.

Hmmm… if I were to cut off the jeer capstan what would go in that space?   I see what looks like the stove chimney here.

This model at my local museum has a jeer capstan.  Most of the ship here are British.  Perhaps a captured French ship would keep it upon transfer to British service?

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Blue Ensign]

Your third photo looks to be of a French Seventy-four.

You can see the double stove chimneys in the square on the Foc’sle.

The photo also shows arms chests either side of the galley hatch. I never could make my mind up what those two elliptical protuberances were supposed to be on the kit.

There is also a bench seat for the watch officers afore the berthing to the Main Ladderway, a very French thing, and the typical chicken coops on the Poop.

 

This model at my local museum has a jeer capstan.  Most of the ship here are British.  Perhaps a captured French ship would keep it upon transfer to British service?

Following capture in 1798, Spartiate was re-fitted between 1801-1803 to British standards of armaments and fittings, which was the usual practice.

It is impossible to know whether any French prizes retained any fittings, but removing moulded in fittings on a plastic kit is difficult, and maybe best left alone, unless they are to be covered by something else.

 

Hmmm… if I were to cut off the jeer capstan what would go in that space?   I see what looks like the stove chimney here.

I suppose you could change the jeer capstan into a chimney – it’s almost there already, remove the little stove pipes, and board over the area.

Regards,

 

B.E.

[TomRigg]

Beez,

Heller supply 32pdr, 18pdr and 8pdr cannon.

For my kit I'm butchering the 8pdrs into 32pdr carronades with scratched slides and mounts (can't figure out how to get the slot in them though)

In the AotS book HMS Diana, 1:24 scale carronade drawings the barrel scales out to (approx) 400mm at the widest diameter and the 9pdr cannon are about 370mm so 8pdrs cut down are a good enough match for me.

Tom

[Admiral Beez]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:22 AM, Blue Ensign said:

I suppose you could change the jeer capstan into a chimney – it’s almost there already, remove the little stove pipes, and board over the area.

I'm going to change jeer capstan into a chimney.  If I cut the top off the capstan and fabricate an aft pointed type it might look chimney like - I'll try out this cone calculator, https://www.cmrp.com/cone-calculator.  Just like the chimney on HMS Victory below.

 

I can remove the little stove pipes and will then fabricate a grating hatch cover like the one afore the chimneys below.   Do you think I should remove the bench before the poop stairs?   I can't imagine any British officer or seaman lounging about while on the quarterdeck!

 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[TomRigg]

You could try stretched sprue and a piece of suitable diameter rod for the angled bit.

As for the bench, I don't think you can go far wrong if you mimic the Bellona book as much as you can now the hull is together.

Tom

[Blue Ensign]

The bench also doubled up as an arms store, but would be considered, an unnecessary luxury in British eyes for whom 'sitting down on the job' would be anathema.

The entire Berthing to the main ladderway is very French and would probably have been removed on refit.

What to do with it really depends on  how easily it can be removed and what lies beneath. If there is a ladderway down to the upper deck then the  usual  British arrangement could be  put into place.

You are still left with  making new ladders to the Poop deck, the usual arrangement is one either side, which would then require modifying the solid Poop deck rails.

 

B.E.

[Admiral Beez]

2 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

The bench also doubled up as an arms store, but would be considered, an unnecessary luxury in British eyes for whom 'sitting down on the job' would be anathema.

I’m too far along to remove the bench and platform behind it, but I will cover up the cavity in front of the bench so that it becomes an arms chest.   Once I have the jeer capstan converted to a chimney (thanks for that advice) along with the custom carronades, boat skid beams and RN-like paint scheme in place I’ll be satisfied that I’ve made her somewhat British. 
 

I’m still perplexed by the bowsprit extension being off centre.   Im tempted to cut it off and rotate it to centre.  Im going to remove the yards anyway and install them when I do the rigging.  Thoughts?    And why is the ship’s wheel so far under the poop - there’s no way the helmsmen could see the sails or have any situational awareness. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

3 hours ago, TomRigg said:

You could try stretched sprue and a piece of suitable diameter rod for the angled bit.

As for the bench, I don't think you can go far wrong if you mimic the Bellona book as much as you can now the hull is together.

Tom

My thoughts too - the sprue has come in handy.  I used a column of sprue to support the quarterdeck above the gundeck, for example.  I’m sure I can make a convincing chimney.

 

The Bellona book (keeping in mind she’s British-built rather than a British conversion of a French prize) has been a lot of help, though in hindsight I didn’t catch as many differences between the kit and the RN ship as I would like.   I’m using the book now along with pics from Victory for rigging the guns and carronades.  
 

I remind myself that this is my “learning” ship, having not built anything since my 20s, 30 years ago.  

Edited April 30, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

Bench is now an arms locker.  Armrests removed and cavity beneath bench filled in with styrene.

Jeer capstan now a chimney, awaiting its exhaust turnout.   Forecastle and quarterdeck guns and carronades roped and knotted, waiting to dry then aboard they go.

 

First gun port lid threaded and glued into place.  I’ll knot the rope when they’re all firmly in place.

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

All guns now roped and installed.  Next is the gun lids.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Blue Ensign]

20 hours ago, Admiral Beez said:

 

I’m still perplexed by the bowsprit extension being off centre.   Im tempted to cut it off and rotate it to centre.  Im going to remove the yards anyway and install them when I do the rigging.  Thoughts?    And why is the ship’s wheel so far under the poop - there’s no way the helmsmen could see the sails or have any situational awareness. 

Jean Boudroit explains that the Bowsprit cap is offset to Starboard since if it were central to the axis of the Bowsprit it might obstruct the rigging which follows the line of the Bowsprit. The riggers of British ships were obviously not of the same opinion.

 

The Helmsman did not apparently need a clear view for steering, he responded simply to orders. I suppose one advantage of having the wheel  in that position is that it is more protected, and the tiller and lines are shorter.

 

B.E.

 

[TomRigg]

RN practice was to have the wheel forward of the mizzen mast. 

Mabe they expected their helmsmen to use a little of their experience.

Tom 

[TomRigg]

Would it be better to drill out the square hole in part 77, glue it vertically over the square peg and then putty the gaps? Might get a stronger joint that way.

Tom

edit:

Would the angles on the flat, mating surface of the bowsprit (parts 50,51) change if you rotated the angle of part 77?

Edited May 4, 2023 by TomRigg

[Admiral Beez]

Larboard side gun port lids installed.  As you can see I’ve added port lids to the upper gun deck, one furthest forward plus aft where the officers’ cabins would have started.  The custom-cast carronades turned out well, and I’m pleased with the ropes on the cannons.  

I’m still not sure what to do with the chimney, as the jeer capstan might be too tall and wide to simulate the chimney - I may just cut it off and create a square base and make a new chimney from a piece of elbow-shaped sprue.

Here’s some options for the missing poop skylight.  I’ll likely trim down the glass one to half size.

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

On 5/2/2023 at 2:01 AM, TomRigg said:

RN practice was to have the wheel forward of the mizzen mast. 

Mabe they expected their helmsmen to use a little of their experience.

Tom 

I wish I’d caught that before and I could easily have moved the wheel.  I’m tempted to try to pull it out and move it.   Mind you, the single central stairway to the poop is in the way, as the RN would have two stairways on either side, likely to clear the forward positioned wheel.   So, I’ll just leave it, on the assumption that our recently captured French ship needs to get quickly into British service.
 

As I keep reminding myself, this is my learning ship, lol.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[TomRigg]

How U doing Beez?

Tom

[Admiral Beez]

On 6/24/2023 at 12:32 PM, TomRigg said:

How U doing Beez?

Tom

Hey Tom, thanks for checking in.   I've taken a bit of a break from the model.  During the brief Canadian summer I spend more time on the water with the local remote control sailboat club, https://metromarine.org/sail-division/   This is the same club where the static division is helping with the Le Superbe/HMS Spartiate build above.

 

That said, I am getting back onto the project, with three more gunport lids to install tonight.   I'm also going to cut off the jeer capstan and create a square base and use some of the sprue to make a proper chimney in place of the capstan, like on HMS Trincomalee below, see just aft of the foremast, but with a bend like on HMS Victory at bottom.

 

My goal is to have the ship completed and ready for rigging in September.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

I put my shipyard plans into a poster frame.  I have another for the rigging plans.  I’ll hang these by my work desk.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[TomRigg]

Good to know your ok. hope you enjoyed your sailing.

Tom

[Admiral Beez]

I’ve fabricated the ship’s chimney from a piece of sprue, replacing the forward capstan.  Also, all gun port lids now installed, less the stern 32 pounders.  I’ve painted black the strings on the underside of the doors to simulate the iron fittings.  My next step is to sort out the poop skylight, which this kit omits entirely, keeping in mind I also plan to add two or four smaller cannonades on the poop.   As I look at these photos I see lots of places where paint touch up is needed.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

On 4/30/2023 at 2:47 AM, TomRigg said:

You could try stretched sprue and a piece of suitable diameter rod for the angled bit.

As for the bench, I don't think you can go far wrong if you mimic the Bellona book as much as you can now the hull is together.

Tom

Thanks Tom.  That was a great suggestion.  I used a micro drill bit to open up the chimney.

[Admiral Beez]

I’ve sand flush the bottom of the donor skylight.  But it’s too big, and especially too tall.  I’m thinking of standing it down to half height.  I could try cutting off one end and putting the end panels back on the now shortened length. Thoughts?

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

Used my dremel and micro saw to cut open the poop deck and also cut down and reshaped the skylight.  I accidentally ground down part of the hand railing on the poop. but had some spare styrene to reshape it. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

Anchors assembled.   They’re fiddly things to ensure their all perpendicular.  

Today I ordered 1mm short and 1.5mm longer carbon fibre rods for inserting into the masts and spars.   For the two piece masts this is easy, just stick in the rod before you seal the two halves together.  But on single piece spars I must carve out a channel to affix the rod, hence the smaller 1mm size.

 

https://www.amazon.ca/MECCANIXITY-Carbon-Fiber-1-5mm-Quadcopter/dp/B0B8H877L8

 

https://www.amazon.ca/MECCANIXITY-Carbon-Fiber-150mm-Quadcopter/dp/B0BDX893CP

Edited August 21, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

Carbon fibre rods have arrived.  Should be a good fit.

I bought a ball-shaped carving tip for my Dremel to carve out the mold pieces inside the mast halves.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

It’s time to paint up and beautify the stern.  My ikea raising desk is still too short, so some improvisation needed.  When I was building the hull I forgot to install the stern chasers.  Now I can’t get them through the ports, so we’ll mock something up.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

It's show and tell at the local model boat builders meeting.  My model looks like a dispatch cutter next to this larger scale HMS Victory.   It's interesting to see the finer lines of the French-built Téméraire-class hull forward compared to the deep, wide bows of HMS Victory.   The former is made for speed, the latter for staying at sea in all conditions with plenty of stores.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez

[Admiral Beez]

I am flummoxed by the instructions on building the mainmast.  See the last photo below, you'll see two holes in the topmast base, presumably for a pully to step the mast.  As far as I can tell when you install the upper mast into the lower mast top these two holes are covered.   I've consulted with my model club and the consensus is to forget about it and glue it up.    

Edited September 27, 2023 by Admiral Beez