carronade information

[Pirate]

hi. I want to build a carronade from the 17000s-18.00s but all I can find is general information. any body have any ideas thanks Mike

[allanyed]

The best sources for details I know of are in Lavery's Arming and Fitting English Men of War and Volume 2 of Caruana's The History of English Sea Ordnance.  I am sure there are members here with lot more information on free sources that you can use.   Keep in mind there are differences between Melville's initial design  built by the Carron company to those in the 19th century, especially the carriages.   Do a search on the RMG Collections site to find contemporary drawings and model photos that may be of some help to you.  These are low resolution free of charge, but you can purchase high resolution versions from them if you wish.   There are several carronades at the entrance of Preble Hall in Annapolis so they may have drawings as well including the one below.

Allan

[Pirate]

thank

[Cathead]

Depending on what you mean by "building a carronade", Model Expo makes a great carronade diorama in 1:24 that serves as a good introduction to some wood/metal modeling skills. Since you said in your introduction to MSW that you were new to wooden modeling, this could be a good place to start. They make a companion kit for a regular naval cannon, and the two make a nice pair. I built them a few years ago and was quite pleased how they turned out:

 

 

If you're talking about scratchbuilding the gun itself, Allan's response above will get you started. Just a tip, in general, the more detail you provide when asking questions the easier it is for others to give helpful responses.

[Roger Pellett]

For US Navy practice I recommend “Arming the Fleet” by Spencer Tucker.

[Pirate]

was going t buy a kit but then they all jumped up i n price ten dis appeared now I still don't see hem much, so I bought the one I amdoing now

[Pirate]

I am trying to research arming and fitting of English ships of war an all I can get are sales sites nothing textual what am I doing wrong

[Lieste]

Pre-1780-82 (ish) carronades are shorter, lacking the extension cup forward of the muzzle rings, as well as having a shorter true bore to those rings. The longer bore and the loading cup/flash hider improved ballistic performance and made firing carronades in the way of rigging less harmful to the ship.

This is incomplete, as records were largely destroyed when the Carron pattern room was cleared and the obsolete patterns destroyed, but has a reasonable coverage from what does remain.
https://falkirklocalhistorysociety.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/object-9-carronade.pdf

[Thanasis]

Hi all and Happy New year.
 Thanks for the file Lieste.  Since it's been a previous discussion from which you know I'm interested about 48lib (gun or carronade) could you please give me a source where I can find more about what is written in the pdf file.
Professor Robison....“cast over the core”. This meant that hollow shot for the 68-pdr carronade weighed about 48lbs... (Caruana 1997, 168).
I couldn't find something about "Caruana" (Captain ?)
Many thanks

[Lieste]

The hollow shot for 68pdr are unfilled shell, at this time, later also specific naval hollow shot, of 56lbs.
Manufactured as any other hollow shell.

As noted the in the document the Navy - the major consumer of ammunition for ordnance, preferred to use solid shot... at least until the advent of reliable percussion fuses making naval shell a generally acceptable proposition. Bomb vessels relied on a tender to fill and prepare most of the shell used in bombardment, with only a handful of loaded shell being their standard load. Hollow shot, while carrying further (over flat angles of fire), didn't penetrate at long range as well as solid shot from the same gun, and often was relatively weak even at close ranges. (Very large ordnance, such as the shell gun and 68pdr carronade, could use the 'heavy' hollow shot to obtain penetration roughly equivalent to a 32pdr.

Caruna is a modern author, the bibliography lists the book referred to.

[Thanasis]

Many thanks Lieste. I much apreciate your info.

I checked the pdf file with "Caruana"  (Ctrl+F) but it seems I missed it...

Thx

[allanyed]

6 hours ago, Pirate said:

I am trying to research arming and fitting of English ships of war an all I can get are sales sites nothing textual what am I doing wrong

Pirate, this book is for sale as are the Caruana books, the information is not available for free as far as I know as it they have copyright protection.

 

Allan

[Cathead]

If cost is an issue, inter library loan is an underutilized resource that can get you all sorts of obscure books long enough to learn what you need or decide whether to invest in a copy.

 

As for kits, it’s still not clear what kit(s) you’re referring to, but while the carronade kit I mentioned above is backordered at Model Expo, it’s in stock at Micromark.

[druxey]

The most detailed information is in Volume 2 of Adrian Caruana's The History of English Sea Ordnance 1523-1875, The Age of the System. Unless you have deep pockets, inter-library loan is your best bet!

[wefalck]

Have any volumes covering the era post-1815 actually been published ? I only see the first two volumes popping up, covering the period 1523-1715 and 1715-1815 respectively. Or is it the same story as with Mondfeld's book, where the later 19th volume was never written/published - a most interesting and large uncovered era in modern literature.

[allanyed]

Eberfhard, 

I just found out not too far back that Adrian Caruana passed away before volume three was published.  British Naval Armaments ed. Robert D. Smith may be a substitute but reviews on this book that I have seen are average at best.   I have found Caruana's information to be reliable and also wish volume 3 had come out.

Allan

Edited January 2, 2022 by allanyed

[druxey]

Yes, Caruana's untimely death was a great pity. To confirm, there is no Volume III that he had planned on.

[Pirate]

I will go with the library, no way can I afford a 200 dollar book. I would pay for the information I need just not a whole book

[wefalck]

The question is how fixed you are on the time-frame and nationality. There are various non-British sources to consider as well ...

 

A colleague of ours (who unfortunately died a few weeks ago much too early ...) wrote a three-part article on the development of the carronades a few years back, but it is in German unfortunately. However, I had a quick look at the reference list to pick some works that might be helpful:

 

Bugler, Arthur: H.M.S. VICTORY - Building, Restauration & Repair, London: H.M.S.O., 1966. - I do not have this book, but it seems to contain some detailed and measured drawings of the carronades on VICTORY (state of knowledge of that time, of course).

 

Lafay, Jean: Aide-Mémoire D´Artillerie Navale, Paris: Librairie Militaire, Maritime et Polytechnique, 1850. - This book is available as eBook from the French National Library: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k9737980n.r=lafay arillerie navale?rk=21459;2; it contains details of barrels and carriages of French ordnance pre-1850.

 

Another source of drawings are the archives of the Danish naval yard in Copenhagen. Much of is digitised and can be downloaded. It is difficult to navigate through it, but if you were seriously interested, I can give you some archival references for carronades.

 

 

 

 

[allanyed]

On 1/1/2022 at 6:30 PM, allanyed said:

Do a search on the RMG Collections site to find contemporary drawings and model photos that may be of some help to you.  These are low resolution free of charge, but you can purchase high resolution versions from them if you wish.   There are several carronades at the entrance of Preble Hall in Annapolis so they may have drawings as well including the one below.

Per the earlier post, did you have a chance to research the above or try to contact Preble Hall at the Naval Academy?  There are number of contemporary drawings over a span of years including the following joint type 18 pounder, circa 1790.

Allan

Edited January 3, 2022 by allanyed