ClipperFan Posted January 9, 2023 Share #91 Posted January 9, 2023 1911 Europa: Steel Bark, 131 ft length, 24.4 ft beam, 15 ft depth of hold, 108 ft mainmast height. 1851 Flying Fish: Wooden Extreme Clipper Ship, 220 ft length, 40 ft beam, 22 ft depth of hold, 150 ft estimated mainmast height. In all fairness, this isn't an equal comparison, as the steel bark was originally constructed as a light ship while the California Clipper was a purposely built merchant vessel designed to powerfully sail through some of the toughest seas on the planet. Still, the latter vessel is referred to as a "Tall Ship" and she's a lovely ship. However, America's original, genuine "Tall Ships" truly scraped the skies and would be a wonder to behold today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snug Harbor Johnny Posted January 9, 2023 Share #92 Posted January 9, 2023 14 hours ago, ClipperFan said: Snug Harbor Johnny That's a beautiful photo. What would be amazing to see would be how your Flying Fish would absolutely dwarf this modern day steel tall ship Europa. I'm going to look up the specs on the two to share and idea of the comparisons. But you're right, this image proves exactly what I'm talking about. In fact, in this image, based on the direction of the flag at the mainmast she appears to be sailing upwind. Flags are 'funny' things - the wind can whip them around all kinds of ways, and the presence of sails forces air outward and upward due to to the increased pressure. My guess is that the shutter snapped at the instant the flag was in a position other than the direction of the prevailing breeze - or that it is actually angled a bit towards us (versus away), or a combination of both effects. BTW I can only 'dream' about building a clipper model as fine as Mike R's ... and eventually I'm likely to give it the college try, you know, 'Win one for the skipper'. 😉 Quote Completed builds: Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 9, 2023 Share #93 Posted January 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said: Flags are 'funny' things - the wind can whip them around all kinds of ways, and the presence of sails forces air outward and upward due to to the increased pressure. My guess is that the shutter snapped at the instant the flag was in a position other than the direction of the prevailing breeze - or that it is actually angled a bit towards us (versus away), or a combination of both effects. BTW I can only 'dream' about building a clipper model as fine as Mike R's ... and eventually I'm likely to give it the college try, you know, 'Win one for the skipper'. 😉 Snug Harbor Johnny I think you're right that the flag is being pushed by a different wind than the sails in your beautiful Europa picture. She definitely appears to be sailing with the wind directly abaft. I know what you mean, when you discuss the incredible artisanship of modelers like Mike R with his beautiful Clipper Flying Fish. The metal crafting and wooden spar scratch building that's done so casually is just mind-bending for novices like myself. EdT has set the bar at an unbelievable level. I have to admit to having a bit of a personal bias towards the two Glory of the Seas models, since I was deeply involved in collaborative research that led to a point where Vlad was able to create hull molds. Rob Wiederrich's 1:96th scale is a beauty to behold and I personally consider her to be the most accurate replica of the ship to date. Meanwhile Vladimir's even larger 1:72nd scale continues to be rigged and is another beautiful rendition of McKay's long lost final Clipper. A Nautical Research Journal article I wrote nearly a year ago is finally going to be published in February's issue. It should include some never before seen photos, courtesy of author Micheal Mejelde who was intimately involved in Rob and Vladimir's project. Snug Harbor Johnny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share #94 Posted January 11, 2023 Today I made the iron sheet blocks, I used .013 brass and cut them out on my scroll saw. I glued 2 pieces together and glued the pattern on. That way both sides will be the same. A little sanding and they were ready for assembly. I cut 1/16" tubing for rollers and spacer and soldered them in. Mike R Snug Harbor Johnny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 11, 2023 Share #95 Posted January 11, 2023 17 hours ago, MikeR said: Today I made the iron sheet blocks, I used .013 brass and cut them out on my scroll saw. I glued 2 pieces together and glued the pattern on. That way both sides will be the same. A little sanding and they were ready for assembly. I cut 1/16" tubing for rollers and spacer and soldered them in. Mike R MikeR your delicate machine work is simply amazing! Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share #96 Posted January 16, 2023 Clipper Fan thanks for the comments, I enjoy the metal work it is easier than the rigging, my hands are to big. Top Sail metal work Mike R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share #97 Posted January 17, 2023 Metal work for the Top Gallant Yard Mike R Prowler901, allanyed and KeithAug 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 17, 2023 Share #98 Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) Great metal work Mike. I wasn't aware the Flying fish only had a single topsail........? 1851 build might mean prior to being Howes Rigged. Fantastic work. One observation though......those yards would not have been strapped to the masts, but parrelled for ease of movement up and down the masts Rob Edited January 17, 2023 by rwiederrich Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share #99 Posted January 17, 2023 Rob the plans that I have for the Flying Fish show the truss and truss bands on the lower, topsail, and top gallant yards. The royal and skysail have hinged parrels. I see in the Harold Underhill book Masting & Rigging that it is only the lower and topsail yards that have the trusses. I have been following the plans so far, other than the color, I do not paint my models I like to use different color wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 17, 2023 Share #100 Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, MikeR said: Rob the plans that I have for the Flying Fish show the truss and truss bands on the lower, topsail, and top gallant yards. The royal and skysail have hinged parrels. I see in the Harold Underhill book Masting & Rigging that it is only the lower and topsail yards that have the trusses. I have been following the plans so far, other than the color, I do not paint my models I like to use different color wood. I'm confused. Why would anyone want to *band* a yard (Irregardless of having a truss), that NEEDS to travel up and down the mast it travels? Yes the main and LOWER topsail yard are trussed...because they do not move up and down the mast. The lower topsail yard in a Howes design is fixed with a crane to the mast cap. But if you are only using a single topsail.(As what appears you are modeling)...it must travel up and down the mast freely by way of a hinged parrell. Your topsail yard is banded to the mast, making it stationary and immovable. Your wonderful work on your chain/gin block tys and haulyards will not work with a stationary banded yard. Do you see what I am pointing out? Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClipperFan Posted January 17, 2023 Share #101 Posted January 17, 2023 2 hours ago, rwiederrich said: I'm confused. Why would anyone want to *band* a yard (Irregardless of having a truss), that NEEDS to travel up and down the mast it travels? Yes the main and LOWER topsail yard are trussed...because they do not move up and down the mast. The lower topsail yard in a Howes design is fixed with a crane to the mast cap. But if you are only using a single topsail.(As what appears you are modeling)...it must travel up and down the mast freely by way of a hinged parrell. Your topsail yard is banded to the mast, making it stationary and immovable. Your wonderful work on your chain/gin block tys and haulyards will not work with a stationary banded yard. Do you see what I am pointing out? Rob MikeR, I believe the point Rob's making is that, unless a yardarm is going to be permanently affixed to the mast, there's no need for a permanent band. In the case of all moveable yards, which sometimes were partially lowered when reefed in rough weather, they need greater mobility so they would only require the hinged parrell. There are more than one image of McKay's last clipper which show a much simpler arrangement of all upper yards. By the way, your hardware work is really beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share #102 Posted January 17, 2023 Rob & ClipperFan Thanks for checking up on me and letting me know something is not right. On going over the drawing again I found this note "Iron ring in band lined with leather and greased". So I installed the iron ring in the band and the leather and grease you can not see. I guess that is how this yard clamp works, it allows it to slide up and down the mast. Thank again MikeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted January 18, 2023 Share #103 Posted January 18, 2023 6 hours ago, MikeR said: Rob & ClipperFan Thanks for checking up on me and letting me know something is not right. On going over the drawing again I found this note "Iron ring in band lined with leather and greased". So I installed the iron ring in the band and the leather and grease you can not see. I guess that is how this yard clamp works, it allows it to slide up and down the mast. Thank again MikeR Yep, the perrell was leather lined and lubricated. And had some play to it, so it would not bind under a heavy load. Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick310 Posted January 24, 2023 Share #104 Posted January 24, 2023 Beautiful work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share #105 Posted January 28, 2023 The last week or so I have been working on the rest of the rigging for the Mizzen Mast. My eyes are not what they use to be, and my fingers got too big. Tomorrow or Monday I will be starting on the Main Mast. Boccherini, gak1965, berhard and 1 other 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick310 Posted January 30, 2023 Share #106 Posted January 30, 2023 Nice!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share #107 Posted February 2, 2023 Rick thanks, it is a good way for me to pass the time of day. Except it goes to fast. I turned the yards for the main mast and made the iron work for the lower arm. I also made that little jig to hold the yards while I work on them. If only the foot ropes would stay the way they are now. Mike R berhard, Vladimir_Wairoa and gak1965 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share #108 Posted February 3, 2023 Today I turned the Main Top Mast, finished the top mast cross tree, made 2 of 3 iron blocks, and temporary installed the top mast. It surprised me how tall it is. berhard, Prowler901 and allanyed 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share #109 Posted February 12, 2023 Hello All For the last few days I have been working on the main mast, lower yard and topsail yard. While working on rigging I broke the knuckle joint on the topsail bracket that holds it on the mast. I do not know what I caught it on, I made another one out of brass and broke it today. I use my wood lathe and a file to turn 1/8" rod down to .039" or 1 mm. I then use a die to run the threads on. I turned another piece of brass and made 2 more. Then I thought about turning one out of steel. It should be stronger. I had 1/8" stainless steel rods so that is what I used. It took a little longer to reduce it to 1mm but it came out ok. I then ran the threads on and it turned out easier than I thought it would be. I hope the steel one will last. MikeR Vladimir_Wairoa, Tony Hunt and Prowler901 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted February 12, 2023 Share #110 Posted February 12, 2023 very nice work with mizzen rigging Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share #111 Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) Thank you Vladimir, You did a great job on your repairs and I like your carvings. One of these days I am going to have to try to carve a fish. I have finished most of the rigging for the mizzen and main masts. I still have to run the lines for the yard braces, but I will get to that latter on. I had some belaying pins that I was using, they are very soft and I think they are made out of lead. I am replacing them with pins I made out of 1/16" brass rod. I am turning them on my wood lathe and using files to shape them. I have made about 40 so far and only have 50 to 60 more to go. I have been replacing them and tensioning the lines at the same time and I am also redoing lines that I found that were crossed or twisted. Edited March 3, 2023 by MikeR KeithAug, Boccherini, berhard and 2 others 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted March 3, 2023 Share #112 Posted March 3, 2023 Wonderful work. Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick310 Posted March 3, 2023 Share #113 Posted March 3, 2023 Really beautiful work, I really like your metal work. Very impressive!! I need to learn how to use my lathe!! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share #114 Posted March 3, 2023 Rob and Rick Thanks, Rick working with a wood lathe takes practice. A couple of suggestions, Use a very lite touch when turning very thin material for your top yards and I use the highest speed for the lathe to turn them. I started making and installing rope coils, also tying ratlines. Mike KeithAug, Prowler901, Snug Harbor Johnny and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted March 3, 2023 Share #115 Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) Your scale permits you ample room and levity The trick, I wish I had tackled, was truly modeling the limpness and natural hang.... in the bunt line ropes, as they come down and pass through the fairleads. To keep them remotely taught, you unduly apply unnatural stresses on the shrouds. How to tackle that will haunt me till I simply replace all the lines (On my new model) with wire, that I can bend to achieve the effect. You are doing a fantastic job....and I'm quite impressed. Rob Edited March 3, 2023 by rwiederrich Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gak1965 Posted March 3, 2023 Share #116 Posted March 3, 2023 Wow. Making your own belaying pins. That is hardcore! George K Quote Current Builds: Bluejacket USS Kearsarge, RRS Discovery 1:72 scratch Completed Builds: Model Shipways 1:96 Flying Fish | Model Shipways 1:64 US Brig Niagara | Model Shipways 1:64 Pride of Baltimore II (modified) | Midwest Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack | Heller 1:150 Passat | Revell 1:96 USS Constitution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gak1965 Posted April 13, 2023 Share #117 Posted April 13, 2023 Mike, When you rigged the tackles for the course, top, and topgallant sheets, how did you run the live ends to the pinrails? On the plan excerpt below, the live ends for the course and top sheets leave a double block on the deck by the mast and the rigging plans say that they are belayed on the pinrails. That seems odd to me,was hoping you might have some insight into how you rigged it. Any help appreciated. Thanks, George K Quote Current Builds: Bluejacket USS Kearsarge, RRS Discovery 1:72 scratch Completed Builds: Model Shipways 1:96 Flying Fish | Model Shipways 1:64 US Brig Niagara | Model Shipways 1:64 Pride of Baltimore II (modified) | Midwest Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack | Heller 1:150 Passat | Revell 1:96 USS Constitution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick310 Posted April 14, 2023 Share #118 Posted April 14, 2023 Again, just beautiful. Great job on the belaying pins!! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwiederrich Posted April 14, 2023 Share #119 Posted April 14, 2023 Just something I noticed..... You apparently ran the lines down through the belay pin hole...then pressed in your belay pin to hold the line in place. After secured...you then added your rope coils. Interesting method....I never thought of doing that....I just belayed using the protypical way myself. Your final look is very nicely done and clean....with appropriate addressed rope coils to boot. Good job for sure. Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gak1965 Posted April 14, 2023 Share #120 Posted April 14, 2023 31 minutes ago, rwiederrich said: Just something I noticed..... You apparently ran the lines down through the belay pin hole...then pressed in your belay pin to hold the line in place. After secured...you then added your rope coils. Interesting method....I never thought of doing that....I just belayed using the protypical way myself. Your final look is very nicely done and clean....with appropriate addressed rope coils to boot. Good job for sure. Rob Oh wow. Did not see that. It works, the lines look phenomenal. Quote Current Builds: Bluejacket USS Kearsarge, RRS Discovery 1:72 scratch Completed Builds: Model Shipways 1:96 Flying Fish | Model Shipways 1:64 US Brig Niagara | Model Shipways 1:64 Pride of Baltimore II (modified) | Midwest Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack | Heller 1:150 Passat | Revell 1:96 USS Constitution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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