Niagara by lb0190 - Model Shipways - 1/64

[Bahamas Diver]

I couldn't agree more with Rich!!  It is soooooooo much easier to make sub assemblies and then add them on.  At this point I am working at trying to be sure all the blocks for masts and tressel trees are installed before stepping the masts and adding the rigging.  I also find that when it comes to the eye-bolts in the deck itt is best to drill and place them but not glue them in so that they are easier to sieze as needed.

[lb0190]

I couldn't agree more with Rich!!  It is soooooooo much easier to make sub assemblies and then add them on.  At this point I am working at trying to be sure all the blocks for masts and tressel trees are installed before stepping the masts and adding the rigging.  I also find that when it comes to the eye-bolts in the deck itt is best to drill and place them but not glue them in so that they are easier to sieze as needed.

 

I was on board with the idea of building the sub-assemblies and add on later (great idea), but did not think about dry fitting the eye-bolts to glue on later - another great idea - THANKS!

[lb0190]

This evening, I cut out the capstan parts, cleaned off the laser burn, trial fit the pieces and started planning out the sequence for assembly and paint. I also made the metal ring that goes on the top of the capstan from heavy paper, colored black with a sharpie. I made the simulated metal ring using two hole punches.

 

QUESTION: What type of adhesive do you use to glue paper to wood? I'm worried the wrong type of glue may soak thru the paper before it dries or release after some time.

[Bahamas Diver]

Larry,

 

Rather than using paper, I use manila folder.  It is a bit thicker and so looks more like metal (once colored by a Sharpie).  With the manila folder stock you can use CA glue...but judiciously.This is what I used for the  metal ring.  I also used a cut down syring to put drops of CA glue on the ring to simulate the bolt heads.  The dry CA glue can also be blackend with a Sharpie

[augie]

If you do use CA, use a thicker grade and be very judicious!

[bgarden]

I really do love working with CA glue but it can bite you on the butt if you don't give it it's due respect it.  Look forward to seeing your work.

 

Brian

[lb0190]

Small update (no pun intended )

 

I painted the capstan parts which you can see below. I forgot to include showing a dime for size reference, but it's definitely tiny parts for my old eyes. At this point, I'm ready to complete the assembly once I figure out how to square the black cog on the shaft. It wobbles a bit so I want to square it up with a jig or something before I add glue. I still need to add fastener heads to the top metal band and of course add simulated metal bands (with fastener heads) after assembly is complete.

 

The second picture shows my first attempt at making simulated fastener heads using CA glue. Some look OK while others were smeared. There is certainly a technique to doing this, in order to get repeat success. I may end up having to find a syringe as suggested by Dave - another trip to the hobby store... This ring was an earlier effort where it had the right OD but the ID looked too big, but it came in handy to experiment with.

 

The simulated metal ring on the capstan top was made from very heavy paper (60-80 pound not sure which). The paper measured .006" thick which scales up to ~3/8" thick. This looked and cut better than the other three types of paper I tried. I used a 1/2" hole punch for the OD and a 3/8" hole punch for the ID. In case your wondering, yes you can sand paper edges if there are a few ragged edges. I initially used a black sharpie to color the ring, but it was shiney. I suspected dullcoat would take the shin away, but I was also worried about the glue soaking through the paper, so I simply painted the ring black before gluing it in place with diluted PVA. I considered using CA glue, but it dries so quickly I wanted more time to position the ring.

 

I almost forgot to mention the portable AC unit works great! No more 15 minute sweat sessions 

Edited July 2, 2013 by lb0190

[lb0190]

Here is the picture with a dime for size reference.

[augie]

Nice work. Yes, we all have the dime the size of a silver dollar.

 

Congrats on the A/C !

[lb0190]

Nice work. Yes, we all have the dime the size of a silver dollar.

 

Congrats on the A/C !

 

Thanks. Since the secret is out, here is my collection  

[Bahamas Diver]

Nice job on the capstan.  I like the star painted in the middle...nice touch.  BTW you can buy syringes at any drugstore such as CVS at the pharmacy.  They are between $0.25 and $0.35 per.  I get 5 mm but I forget the gauge.  I will look and see if I have any unopened ones that label the needle gauge.  You can use a triangular file to cut off the sharp needle part so that the syringe is safe and easier to use.

[augie]

David is right on the syringes from the Pharmacy.  BTW, I use white glue and a syringe for rivets on my warbirds.  Works well and plenty of time to get it off if you 'miss'.

[lb0190]

Good morning David & Augie,

 

Thanks for the advice on the syringes. I'm going to buy some and give it a try. Does the glue (PVA or CA) last as long as the original container?

 

I applied the fastener heads to the top of the capstan last night using a pointed dental tool. It worked OK but I bet the syringe does a much better job. The star was not not painted (I wish I had that skill level). I purchased decal sheets and printed the star, but not without problems. The material was much ticker than what I prefered and for some reason, yellow wold not show up very well so I went with black. Under the right light, it appears there is some air or something (maybe fingerprint??) visable under the decal but not to the point it's worth doing over. I still need to cut and place the side bands, but wonder if it's too much. I'll play with it today and see how one looks, then finish up this mini project.

[augie]

Never left the PVA in the syringe Larry.  I have no idea!

[Bahamas Diver]

I hadn't thought of using white glue  but it makes good sense!  I will try it at the next oppurtunity.

[Bahamas Diver]

For the PVA in a syringe...when you are finished push a small drop out to the tip of the needle and let it dry.  this acts as a cap.  When it is time to use it again simply pick of the hardened drop and the glue inside the syringe will be as fresh as new.

[Bahamas Diver]

Larry...the other trick I learned about CA is that if you put a drop on a piece of wax paper it will not dry for several hours.  For small work I took the head off of a pin and inserted it into a small piece of dowel (as a handle).  You can then use the tip of the pin to apply the CA where you want it.  I have made a single drop of CA last a very long time LOL.

[lb0190]

Thanks for sharing. I also use the wax paper for CA, but I took a sewing needle and ground off the eye so I have a miniture fork to pick up the glue. Sometimes I need a smaller amount than what the fork picks up. I'll try your idea of using the point of a needle to see if that helps.

 

When I use PVA, I place a dab on paper, waxpaper, cardboard anything that's handy and use a dental probe to pick up a small amount to apply. I always have waste or it gets too dry to use before it's used up. Maybe the syringe idea will work better for me.

[edmay]

Hi Larry,as was pointed out?(good ideas)Thanks,another is to flatten the end of the needle,bend end of needle (3/16,) 90 degrees,using a small tri-angle file cut through the inside of the flattened needle just enough for a little glue to come out,draw the flat side along the inside of plank leaving a thin bead of glue on top of plank.works very well,If you see my point (ha).you are a fine modeler,keep up the good work,Edwin

[lb0190]

The capstan is complete. Sorry about the poor photos. The camera is new and I just cannot get the close-up to work as well as my previous camera - maybe I should read the manual.   I tried adjusting the photos in edit mode, but they still look pretty bad.

 

Back to the capstan; I painted thE simulated fasteners an off-black to try and make them stand out a bit from the four metal rings. The light and the angle affects how well they show up.

 

The hull planks I installed yesterday revealed a big  I need to deal with. It's a newbei error I should have seen, but more of a fustration than a big deal to fix. I'll take some photos tonight or tomorrow and share my mistake hoping it helps someone avoid repating my error.

 

HAPPY 4TH EVERYONE!!!

[trippwj]

Nice looking capstan, Larry.  I like the color contrasts.

[lb0190]

Help, all hands on deck!!

 

As I mentioned earlier I glued a couple of planks on the starboard outer bulwarks and after removing the clamps I noticed what looks to be a major assembly error. Any input or ideas on how to recover, hopefully without a major overhaul would appreciated.

 

The degree of error from bow to stern ranges from no issue to as big as the photos show below. There is a gap between the inside face of the installed outer bulwark planks and the outer edge of the plank-sheer, which really shows at the gunports and to a minor degree at some sweep-ports. At this time I'm not sure if it was caused by improper installation of the plank-sheer or a bad fairing effort on my part (maybe a combination of the two). I intentionally did not completely finish fairing every bulkhead thinking I could complete that task later as needed, which may have contributed to this issue??? If you look the location of the cannonade carriage hole, it looks like it's in the correct position to me (in relationship with the inner bulwark planks).

 

Initially I thought add wood to fill the gap, but that places the gun muzzle further in – which I'm not sure how big of an issue that would be. Filling in the gap as needed is a somewhat easy fix, but I sure would appreciate your thoughts and ideas before I do anything to fix this problem.

 

THANKS in advance!

[bgarden]

Okay Larry, from where I stand (up here north of you) it looks like things are not that bad. I think that what you are seeing is that perhaps your hull could have underwent a bit more fairing. With that said it is important to note that the gun ports taper a little, getting wider towards the bottom. Also it may be worth noting that gun ports towards the sten taper a little more then the gun ports in the middle and he gun ports at the bow tend to taper the most. I don't think that your plank steer is installed poorly but I would suggest that if you are brave enough removing the plank sheer might be helpful, you could over shim the sides of the gun ports that are low and re fair everything to your liking, dry fit the plank sheer and then when ready reinstall it. I had to remove a few planks that had been glued to my hull so far that we're not to my liking, all I did was very carefully and slowly cut loose the problem areas with an exacto knife, but depending on the glue used you could dissolve it to. If I were you I would both shim the gun ports deeper and fair the hull a little more. On my Niagara I had to extend the gun port sill a little, but the trick is not to do it too much. You want to give that ship curves but not too much curves.

 

Brian, ps. Happy 4 of July, you live in a great Country, be proud!

[augie]

I'm going to go with bgarden here and say that you need more fairing on the hull.  If there is any way to get the planks off I'd go that route.  I hope you didn't use CA as that makes it really tough.

[kenr]

Hi Larry

If it is any consolation I have exactly the same problem  except

worse in that I have planked the entire out side hull.

I intend to simply fill the gaps and paint them red.

But I will wait to see what ingenious solution you come up with !!

 

Regards

Ken

[Rich_engr]

Larry- don't worry.  I was in the exact same boat (no pun)- my gaps in some were about as wide as yours, and I just trimmed/sanded a small piece of 1/16" plank to shim the gaps, then painted over them.  It was frustrating too, and I didn't realize I had to fill them in until after planking as well.  

 

If you look closely, you'll see that my ship is shimmed, trimmed, and filled in sooo many places, but luckily the hull is painted so they're not that noticeable!  

 

Another thing I noticed when getting the guns placed, is that (in my case anyway) some of the carriage pins do not sit in the middle of the gun port (some are more forward or aft in their respective ports, so the guns don't sit exactly in the middle), and in retrospect I think this was because of my being a newbie at fairing and didn't quite get the ports all symmetrical with respect to the planksheer.  

 

Yeah, fairing is definitely more art than science (and requires a good eye)- inspect, visualize, and maybe even try to physically measure from all sorts of angles and view points...  like a sculptor checking the curves on his marble statue~~  lol!

[popeye the sailor]

sorry to hear of the dilemma..........sounds like you got two good ways to correct the problem.    both are a good solution

[Bahamas Diver]

Larry,  For what ever it is worth, I had the same problem on my Niagara.  You can use some filler planks to fill in the gaps.  Since you, me and bgarden had the same issue, I am wondering if it is not a common problem with the kit.  In any case (and as you said) it is an easy fix.    In the mean time your capstan looks great.  One thing...from the 2nd picture of it, it looks as if the tip of the capstan is not square to the support ribs.  It may just be the angle of the picture, but if not now is the time to fix it as it will show up when you add it to the deck.

[lb0190]

Larry,  For what ever it is worth, I had the same problem on my Niagara.  You can use some filler planks to fill in the gaps.  Since you, me and bgarden had the same issue, I am wondering if it is not a common problem with the kit.  In any case (and as you said) it is an easy fix.    In the mean time your capstan looks great.  One thing...from the 2nd picture of it, it looks as if the tip of the capstan is not square to the support ribs.  It may just be the angle of the picture, but if not now is the time to fix it as it will show up when you add it to the deck.

 

Hi David,

Sorry to say, but I'm glad I'm not the only one to have this issue... and after a little exploratory surgery (i.e. sanding) this morning proved the problem to be more minor than I initially thought (as stated by my fellow Niagara builders). My panic session is officially over.

 

I also dry fitted a carronade together to see it there are any unknown issues regarding it fitting correctly in it's designated space. All I could see was a possible minor height issue as mentioned by most other Niagara builders. Fortunately for me I have their proven solutions to mitigate the issue. I also used the carronade to see if there are any issues with the gun in respect to my bulwark dilemma – non were noted.

 

I did have a tiny mishap today. While filing away on the carronade mount pin ( a really tiny bugger) I dropped it just as I finished sanding it. I searched for an hour without success. I need eighteen and eighteen is what was sent  . I'm hoping I walk out there tomorrow morning and see if laying right in front of me, but if not, I'll either make one from wood or ask Model Expo to send another.

 

Thanks everyone for your support, help and encouragement!

 

There must be a place where dropped pieces gather, never to seen again.

[kenr]

Hi Larry

If ME will not play the game I have my damaged Niagara which I am using for parts.

I could disassemble a few of the carronades and post you the mount pins if it helps 

 

Regards

Ken

PS That applies to all members of the Niagara Club and not just the mount pins