Flying Fish by Rick310 - Model Shipways - 1/96

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, Rick310 said:

Thanks for the input Rob,  

really appreciated!  I’ll go back and re-measure the stirrups, they’re supposed to be approximately 3 1/2 ft.

Rick

Sounds about right...what is the diameter of the yard at full scale?   That might give you a bit more perspective.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  Should the jackstays be a little 'forward' on the yard, instead of top-dead-center?  'Haven't done any yet on a 1:100 project but will, in time, get to them.

From my research the jackstays were top center.  Here is a pic to show you.

[gak1965]

53 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

From my research the jackstays were top center.  Here is a pic to show you.

Interesting, the plans for the Fish indicate them being forward rather than TDC. My AOTS for USS Constitution omits the backstays for clarity and Crothers doesn't seem to talk about them.

[rwiederrich]

7 minutes ago, gak1965 said:

Interesting, the plans for the Fish indicate them being forward rather than TDC. My AOTS for USS Constitution omits the backstays for clarity and Crothers doesn't seem to talk about them.

I'm sure anywhere near the top won't make or break the situation.  Like I said, all my personal research has shown they are typically (actually every time) are depicted right on top.  Even the big German Square riggers showed them there.   I tend to lean to symmetry.  Truss on the back, lift bolts on top, blocks placed typically at 12, 3, 6, and 9 O'clock....and the sheet blocks right beneath.  The stirrups secure to them, then hang aft....the beckets or sail straps hang from the front.  It....to me, is based on symmetry.

No reason to make it anything different.  IMHV.

 

Rob

[Rick310]

Thanks Rob and George for your input.  I am currently out of town helping my daughter plan her wedding (my input not required, just my approval).  I will check everything when I get back.

Rick

[MrBlueJacket]

If you're re-doing the footropes, consider using fine wire. It can be shaped to have realistic curvature. Go to this link and then to post #251

 

 

[Rick310]

 Ic, I used 28  ga copper wire for the stirrups and .012 black thread for the foot ropes.  My intention is to apply Matt varnish to the foot ropes and shape them to the proper shape after I finish the rest of the work on the topsail yard.I’ll see if that works 

Rick

[rwiederrich]

Fun stuff.   I add my foot ropes then tie in the stirrups and then paint the entire yard and them black. The paint stiffens the thread and makes it compliable……

 

Rob

[Rick310]

I really like that technique!  I think I’m going to try it as my results with the varnish have been somewhat inconsistent.

Rick

[Rick310]

I really like the idea of placing the foot ropes first, that way they are the same length .  Harder to do when threading the foot ropes through the stirrups.

Rick

[rwiederrich]

On 6/1/2024 at 1:34 PM, Rick310 said:

I really like the idea of placing the foot ropes first, that way they are the same length .  Harder to do when threading the foot ropes through the stirrups.

Rick

I run the foot ropes to the proper *droop*....then I run the stirrups down from the yard to the foot rope.  tying them off neatly.  One the yard is completed...but before you add your blocks....I spray paint the entire rig black.  
This stiffens the footropes and stirrups and also aids in securing them neatly to the yard....  Making it all looks nice and neat.  One benefit of laying the footropes first is you can work to eliminate that pesky line curl, you sometimes get when using thread wound on a spool...(If you do that kinda thing)..

Once the footropes are hanging naturally...it is a simple task of securing the stirrups to the jackstays...Or simply around the yard and then forming them into a straight line down to the footrope...where you tie it off neatly...with the proper securing method.

[Rick310]

That’s a beautiful rigging job Rob!!  The foot ropes look great!!  I see what you mean about the length of the stirrups.

I’m going to try painting the foot ropes black also.

Rck

[rwiederrich]

You need to take into consideration the scale of the men working the sails.  If the stirrups are too long the man will be far too low on the yard...and he needs to be able to lean over the yard or at least have the yard at his waist level.  Here are a couple of my scale crewmen for example.

Rob

[Rick310]

Rob, I’ve tried to shorten the stirrups, probably not as much as they should be but better than what they were.

Really appreciate your input!

The pictures of your GS are amazing!  Incredibly well done!

Rick

[rwiederrich]

15 hours ago, Rick310 said:

Rob, I’ve tried to shorten the stirrups, probably not as much as they should be but better than what they were.

Really appreciate your input!

The pictures of your GS are amazing!  Incredibly well done!

Rick

Rick...just remember to keep the hang of the footropes in scale.  Imagine a scale man resting over the yard on his belly..... reaching for sail to furl.  Place the footropes at that level....then add the stirrups.    You will always be  even and both sides will be aligned.  Symmetry is important here.   there is nothing worse then seeing footropes so long that if a person were to be standing on them...the yard would be over their head.

 

Not Good.

 

Thanks for the fine comment.  I find keeping the rigging as accurate as possible is the most rewarding for me.   In this case....for me....MORE is better...  As long as it is in scale....or pretty darn close.

 

Rob 

[ClipperFan]

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Rick...just remember to keep the hang of the footropes in scale.  Imagine a scale man resting over the yard on his belly..... reaching for sail to furl.  Place the footropes at that level....then add the stirrups.    You will always be  even and both sides will be aligned.  Symmetry is important here.   there is nothing worse then seeing footropes so long that if a person were to be standing on them...the yard would be over their head.

 

Not Good.

 

Thanks for the fine comment.  I find keeping the rigging as accurate as possible is the most rewarding for me.   In this case....for me....MORE is better...  As long as it is in scale....or pretty darn close.

 

Rob 

@rwiederrich Rob, when it comes to reproducing a vessel in scale, while admittedly it's a challenge to keep items scale accurate, the benefit is a far more believable replica. Footropes and stirrups as discussed, serve a very specific function. That's to supply crew a useful perch to work equipment on yards. Having too long stirrups defeats the purpose of even having them. In this case, utilizing 1:96th scale figures would facilitate instillation of these important lines. A carefully thought out model, especially in reproducing these meticulous details really elevates the overall quality of the whole. 

[Rick310]

I finished the mizzen topsail yard .  This included the reefing blocks (2 mm blocks from Syren) and their tackles as well as the leach and buntline blocks.  I also attached the chain halyard blocks and rigged their tackles as well.

I won’t finish attaching the chain blocks to the cross trees until I’m ready to attach the mizzen topmast.  The topgallant chain sheets were also rigged.

I  decided to add the bowlines per EdT and YA.  These consist of a bridle threaded through a bullseye and he bowline’s standing end around the bullseye. The bullseyes were made on the lathe with boxwood and an appropriate diameter o.070.  The hole in the bullseye is a #71 micro drill.  The line is .008 , also from Syren.  The lines for the lower yards will be .012 and thread for the upper yards.

I finally got the main and fore lower masts made.  This took 5 attempts to get 2 masts.  The first 2 , the central spindle was 2 big, 1/4 inch square with the fish being 1/8 inches.  When rounded and tapered on the lathe, the chapels came out too small.

These were remade per George (GAK 1965). I made the central spindle 3/16 inch as well as the fish .  When turned on the lathe, the mainmast came out acceptable, but the fore was not.  Apparently not centered well enough.

My last attempt on the fore mast came out pretty good.  I noticed that the chapels on my masts are not as pronounced as on George’s FF.  This maybe due to the tapering, from 13/32 to 10/32 apparently.

Also added various eyebolts and blocks on the deck around the masts.

 

[ClipperFan]

47 minutes ago, Rick310 said:

I finished the mizzen topsail yard .  This included the reefing blocks (2 mm blocks from Syren) and their tackles as well as the leach and buntline blocks.  I also attached the chain halyard blocks and rigged their tackles as well.

I won’t finish attaching the chain blocks to the cross trees until I’m ready to attach the mizzen topmast.  The topgallant chain sheets were also rigged.

I  decided to add the bowlines per EdT and YA.  These consist of a bridle threaded through a bullseye and he bowline’s standing end around the bullseye. The bullseyes were made on the lathe with boxwood and an appropriate diameter o.070.  The hole in the bullseye is a #71 micro drill.  The line is .008 , also from Syren.  The lines for the lower yards will be .012 and thread for the upper yards.

I finally got the main and fore lower masts made.  This took 5 attempts to get 2 masts.  The first 2 , the central spindle was 2 big, 1/4 inch square with the fish being 1/8 inches.  When rounded and tapered on the lathe, the chapels came out too small.

These were remade per George (GAK 1965). I made the central spindle 3/16 inch as well as the fish .  When turned on the lathe, the mainmast came out acceptable, but the fore was not.  Apparently not centered well enough.

My last attempt on the fore mast came out pretty good.  I noticed that the chapels on my masts are not as pronounced as on George’s FF.  This maybe due to the tapering, from 13/32 to 10/32 apparently.

Also added various eyebolts and blocks on the deck around the masts.

 

@Rick310 thanks for the highly detailed recitation of the meticulous work necessary to prepare one yardarm. I particularly appreciate your delineation of the different thicknesses of thread being utilized for varying uses. It's also reflective of the construction challenges you faced in formatting your replica fished masts. Thanks for the over all look at your beautiful Flying Fish hull. 

[Jared]

You are doing a fine build!

[Rick310]

ClipperFan and Jared, thanks for your kind words and encouragement.

ClipperFan, I really appreciate your meticulous research on McKays’s clippers and your relentless efforts to be as accurate as possible.  Your artistic skills are amazing!  As you, Rob and Vlad know, keeping everything in scale and not letting items get to big and out of scale, is a big challenge.

Jared, I have been following your and George’s Flying Fish build and refer back to your 2 blogs frequently to see how you accomplished making various items.  I also follow the steps you and George used for masting and rigging.

I intend to rig aft to forward, inside out and bottom to top.

Rick

 

[gak1965]

Looking really great Rick! The chapeling may look different because of photo angles and/or paint. They certainly look great to me, and your yards are works of art.

 

Regards,

George 

 

 

[Rick310]

Thanks George, in making them, I was constantly referring back to yours.  You certainly set the bar and I don’t know if I reached it but I’m going with what I have.  Your blog has been a great resource!

Rick

[ClipperFan]

4 hours ago, Rick310 said:

ClipperFan and Jared, thanks for your kind words and encouragement.

ClipperFan, I really appreciate your meticulous research on McKays’s clippers and your relentless efforts to be as accurate as possible.  Your artistic skills are amazing!  As you, Rob and Vlad know, keeping everything in scale and not letting items get to big and out of scale, is a big challenge.

Jared, I have been following your and George’s Flying Fish build and refer back to your 2 blogs frequently to see how you accomplished making various items.  I also follow the steps you and George used for masting and rigging.

I intend to rig aft to forward, inside out and bottom to top.

Rick

 

@Rick310

Thanks for your compliment of my artwork, I appreciate the encouragement. It consistently amazes me how some of McKay's uniquely different nautical architectural designs, which have been recorded since the first Boston Daily Atlas article of Stag Hound by Duncan McLean in December 1850 have been completely missed. McKay's incredibly rugged navel hood, cutwater design is truly unique. Rob and I have looked extensively and never seen such structures on any other British or American clipper ship. I now think that McLean's description of the McKay bow being plain, lacking head or trail boards confused other maritime researchers who didn't know what to do with these unusual descriptions. Fortunately, with Glory of the Seas we had incontrovertible proof as to the true nature of these ultra-rare structures. Now Rob and I are doing our part to spread the word to the modeling community to set the record straight.

As for the challenge of maintaining scale accuracy, all I can say, as an artist working to keep all components scale accurate is to keep referring to actual dimensions of each item you're working on. To me, nothing rapidly ruins the appearance of a model than to lose track of the scale you're working in. For instance, while researching Staghound I read about deck lights (prisms) and side lights (portholes) which were provided for every apartment on her. Here's the thing. Prisms are tiny, 4.5" in diameter hexagons. In 1:96th scale, that's about 1/32nd & 1/2". Rob is going to use little green dots to at least show their existence. We'll see if he actually goes through with it. A more useful fact, which might actually be repetitious, are the long lubber holes on the solid tops. Contrary to plans, lubber holes extend all the way from front to rear, and we have many photos to prove that. 

[Rick310]

Finished the lower main and fore masts.

The mast bands are .05 brass, approximately .055 inches in width.  The futtock band and the lower yard truss band are .02 inches thick copper, approximately 1/16 inch wide.  These were made with the hounds clamped in place, then when the hounds were glued and shaped, the bands were  pushed the into place.  The jackstay eyebolts are28 gauge copper, formed around the .02 inch diameter brass rod used for the jackstay.  
All eyebolts and block straps will be made with 26 gauge copper wire from now on.  I’ve had a devil of a time with the 28 gauge copper wire breaking when blocks are put in place.  I know this is out of scale, but it’s not that noticeable and the 26 gauge copper wire seems to be significantly stronger.

The lizard and the bullseye for the mizzen stay are 2.5 mm ( approximately 3/32 or 9 scale inches).  These are the smallest ones I could find that are commercially available 

.  The upper bullseyes are smaller and I will try to make them.

now, onto the tops and top masts.

[gak1965]

Looking great! Fabulous brass work there.

 

George 

[Rick310]

Thanks George,  really anxious to start rigging.

Rick

[rwiederrich]

Rick....she's looking amazing....love your mast work.  Everything so clean and sharp.  So nice.

 

Rob

[Rick310]

Thanks Rob,  I take inspiration from your work!

Rick

[ClipperFan]

On 8/20/2024 at 6:08 PM, Rick310 said:

Finished the lower main and fore masts.

The mast bands are .05 brass, approximately .055 inches in width.  The futtock band and the lower yard truss band are .02 inches thick copper, approximately 1/16 inch wide.  These were made with the hounds clamped in place, then when the hounds were glued and shaped, the bands were  pushed the into place.  The jackstay eyebolts are28 gauge copper, formed around the .02 inch diameter brass rod used for the jackstay.  
All eyebolts and block straps will be made with 26 gauge copper wire from now on.  I’ve had a devil of a time with the 28 gauge copper wire breaking when blocks are put in place.  I know this is out of scale, but it’s not that noticeable and the 26 gauge copper wire seems to be significantly stronger.

The lizard and the bullseye for the mizzen stay are 2.5 mm ( approximately 3/32 or 9 scale inches).  These are the smallest ones I could find that are commercially available 

.  The upper bullseyes are smaller and I will try to make them.

now, onto the tops and top masts.

@Rick310

beautiful work on your built lower masts. I particulary appreciate your specific, detailed rendition of each material you used and how you crafted them for your modeling needs. I love the look of your hull. Your's is the closest profile to the gorgeous work of JE Buttersworth, specially commissioned by her owners to celebrate her remarkable firat place win in the Great Atlantic-Pacific Deep Sea Derby of 1852-53. Combined with her lofty rig, your Flying Fish is shaping up to be the finest ever seen!

[rwiederrich]

Buttersworth  got her bow all wrong.   How is that even possible?

 

Rob