Recommended approach for staining the weather deck planking on US Frigates

[Rodedwards]

I am in the midst of building a 1990's Mamoli kit for the Constitution and would like advice on how to make the weather (Spar) Deck look authentic. I am using the planking supplied with the kit. I have seen in build logs such suggestions as "Danish Oil"???, and pecan stain and others recommending a final coat of a polyurethane sealer which I thought would result in an unrealistic gloss.

[allanyed]

If you look at the USS Constitution museum  site you will get a detailed description of the deck planking.  https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2016/07/14/decks/      To quote them

Holystoning

In the 18th and 19th centuries, Constitution‘s sailors began their day by cleaning the ship with the unwelcome task of holystoning the decks. A hand pump wet the deck with seawater, and men with buckets cast sand over the planks. The watch then scoured away the previous day’s dirt and grime with soft white stones and stiff brushes. Some believe “holystoning” got its name because scrubbing sailors looked as if they were kneeling in prayer. Smaller stones were called “prayer books” and bigger stones were called “bibles.” This was the “most disagreeable duty in the ship,” wrote Samuel Leech, a sailor aboard during the War of 1812, especially “on cold, frosty mornings.”

Once finished, the men rinsed the decks and left them to dry in the sun, or flogged them dry using bits of rope or a “squilgee,” a T-shaped implement with a leather-edged crosspiece. This constant abrasion of the wooden decks left them a pale cream color and “so clean that a handkerchief might be swept over them without soiling the whiteness.”

 

If the wood is light in color, use it as is.   If it is too dark,  and as you want to look authentic forget using the wood that they provided in the kit and get some holly planking materials or some stock and cut your own planks.  This will be the closest in color to what the decks looked like without need to stain the wood.  The weather decks were a combination of mostly white oak but a few  strakes of pitch pine around the hatches. 

 

Photos of pitch pine and holly are below.

Allan

[Jaager]

The following is speculation - I have no specific references, just years of reading:

 

The decking  - the probability is high that it was a southern yellow Pine.  

Working ships tended to have their decks subject to frequent sanding -  actual sand under a moving heavy flat rock.

No clear finish of any kind.  Bare feet react poorly to splinters.  These same feet tended to track tar, as well as it dripping from the rigging,  so a captain who wished to keep his command and or wished for promotion would keep the decks clean.

A varnished deck - more often wet than not - would be too slippery - they did not have TopSiders.

 

Consider a dose of 50% diluted clear shellac - and when dry, wait a few days and rub the surface with a ScotchBrite pad.

 

 

The wood Hard Maple, Birch, Beech -  To my eye the premium snow white Holly tends to be too white and I don't think any species of wood that gets large enough to build anything with is near that white.   But - I chanced upon some #1 common Holly at Advantage Lumber that was only $6.00.BF.  It is not white, the yield of usable product would likely be 50% at best.  But it what could be isolated would have the same wonderful Holly working characteristics.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Jaager

[allanyed]

Hi Jaager

Do you think the different types of wood the museum names for each deck  might be from past times and southern yellow pine that you mention would be the wood they used when she was rebuilt in modern times?    The reason I ask is that the use of two different species on the same deck that they describe had not occurred to me even though this was not uncommon on British warships.  I studied the John Lord cross section drawing which anyone building a model of Connie should reference but it does not appear to show the species of the deck planking, only the ceiling, hull planking, treenails above and below the water line and the deck beams.  The verbal description of the decking given on the museum site is below but might they have it wrong?   RMG is not without errors on their site, so the Connie Museum description might be in error.  Thanks

Allan

 

USS Constitution has four complete decks–spar, gun, berth, and orlop–that combine to make her about the height of a four-story building. The spar deck, or top deck, was originally made from a combination of white oak planking (to support the heavy weight of the carronades) with Carolina pitch pine flanking the hatches. The gun deck just below was similarly made of a combination of white oak and pitch pine. The berth and orlop decks, however, were made exclusively of the strong yet light-weight pitch pine. 

 

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I get the need to stone the deck, but didn't know that it was a daily task.  The effect would have removed small splinters that might have been forming - to the benefit of barefoot sailors.  Yet the process does involve abrasion, and the topmost wood fibers are worn off - reducing the thickness of the plank by a few thousandths.  I'm not sure of the starting plank thickness (a good question ... 1 1/2" ?  2"?), but repeated abrasion would inevitably wear them thin enough to compromise their function.  So my question is, how often did the decking need to be replaced?

[barkeater]

I would suggest Testors Dulcote as a finish. It is a matte finish and as such will not be shiny. It coats evenly and is simple to use right out of the bottle. Also, it is sold in small bottles, so you don't wind up with a lot of unused product.

Richard

[allanyed]

Great point Johnny.   I believe the deck was 3" thick so it would likely take some time to get it down to a need for replacement.  Probably had more problems with replacing due to rot before thickness became an issue.

Allan

[Jaager]

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

Do you think the different types of wood the museum names for each deck  might be from past times and southern yellow pine that you mention would be the wood they used when she was rebuilt in modern times?

Allan,

I get my answer for this from the contract for the corvettes Warren and Falmouth  included in the appendix of HASN.

i.e.  heart Pine, max 10" width, 2.5" thick, 40' long.

 

American as a separate entity was late to the game.  Before 1783 the RN was us.  I have read about there being lots of trees in the North American colonies having a brand with the king's symbol - which I think meant  - you may own the the land, but this tree belongs to the RN.  The Baltic gets the press as the source for Pine and Pine tar in books published after 1783, but before this, I think Georgia and Carolinas were the main source for a while.

There was a species of Pine that was loved into near extinction in the early 20th century.  It was a large tree, very tall and straight.  The grain was distinct, yellow and red,  the red was as hard as a rock.  It could turn nails. I think it would depend on when a "repair" of Constitution was done for them to use it.  The later, the less likely that it was still available.   

 

[Rodedwards]

3 hours ago, barkeater said:

I would suggest Testors Dulcote as a finish. It is a matte finish and as such will not be shiny. It coats evenly and is simple to use right out of the bottle. Also, it is sold in small bottles, so you don't wind up with a lot of unused product.

Richard

 

[Rodedwards]

Thanks. This sounds like a straightforward approach.

[Rodedwards]

Thanks for direction to the Museum website. Very useful. White Oak sounds believable for its hardness and strength in standing up to the abuse of the gun carriages.  Since I have already completed the deck planking using the planks provided by Mamoli, I do not have the choice to employ new stock. However, the information on the deck material  is helpful.  I had already tested Minwax's "Weathered Oak Stain and it gave an unexciting dull grey look that while possibly authentic was underwhelming. Modelexpo's Natural Stain results in very little change to the planks intrinsic color. I'm off to try the Testor's Dulcote and the thinned shellac. Thanks to all for the suggestions.

I know that the deck ought not be glossy of course. Having spent a few hours with my backside in the air pushing a holystone as a Swab (fourth classman/freshman) on the 1957 transatlantic voyage of the USCGC Eagle ( three masted barque).

[Bill Hudson]

"Holystoning

In the 18th and 19th centuries, Constitution‘s sailors began their day by cleaning the ship with the unwelcome task of holystoning the decks. A hand pump wet the deck with seawater, and men with buckets cast sand over the planks. The watch then scoured away the previous day’s dirt and grime with soft white stones and stiff brushes."

 

The Holystone got its name from its design which was a circular ring of pumice. The handle of a broom was placed inside the ring and moved until the stone started swinging in circles around the handle. If done correctly the deck would have swirl marks in it. 

 

I will need to correct myself here. The original description above is correct, however there was also a donut like ring used as I described although I can no longer find a reference for it. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Bill Hudson

[allanyed]

Rod,     If you really want to fix this you would not be the first modeler to rip out the awful materials most kit makers provide and replace it with more appropriate material.  Whatever you are happy with is all that matters in the end.

 

Allan

[Rodedwards]

Thanks again for the various inputs. It looks like I was all wet in stating that white oak looked like what had been suggested on the Museum website. Digging deeper I found a quote from the designer Humphreys who apparently specified " the finest hart(?) pitch pine". So Allanyred had it right. In the end, I tried the "dullcote" which did not materially change the color of the planks but gives them a bare wood look I think is "OK".

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:36 AM, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  I get the need to stone the deck, but didn't know that it was a daily task.  The effect would have removed small splinters that might have been forming - to the benefit of barefoot sailors.  Yet the process does involve abrasion, and the topmost wood fibers are worn off - reducing the thickness of the plank by a few thousandths.  I'm not sure of the starting plank thickness (a good question ... 1 1/2" ?  2"?), but repeated abrasion would inevitably wear them thin enough to compromise their function.  So my question is, how often did the decking need to be replaced?

 

  An answer given me as to deck thickness was 3" ... and I can see that to start with.  Now if  only 2 thousandths (.002) is abraded with stoning, then 500 applications (500/365 is about 1 1/3 years) would remove about 1" of wood !  That much of a reduction might prompt the need to replace the decking - but they might 'push' it a little further.  Let's say that days tied up at harbor might not require deck grinding every single day ... so perhaps the decks were gone over about every other day.  Bad weather would preclude the activity in any setting, so let's make that every third day over the long haul.  1 1/3 x 3 is about 4 years by my estimate.  So given that some maintenance might be subject to delay, there might have been a 'range' of 3 to 6 years between re-decking ... just an estimate, mind you.                Johnny