HMS Victory by Twahl - Heller - 1/100 - PLASTIC

[Ian_Grant]

Further on Hackney's diagram, I didn't annotate everything at the time so here is more info:

 

31 = eyebolt for use by Fore royal backstay

32 = eyebolt for use by main royal backstay

33 = eyebolt for use by mizzen royal backstay

 

34 =  eyebolt for strop to single block on fore topsail yard halyard

72 =      "       "          "        "             "        main     "        "       " 

80 =      "       "          "        "             "      mizzen    "        "       "  (starboard only)

 

Longridge has full text descriptions of all these, of course.

[Twahl]

So i did a stupid.  I mounted the bowsprit and did all of the associated rigging.  I have seen YouTube videos of people using a cigarette lighter to burn off the fuzz of the strings.  I tried it and I guess I held it a fraction of a second too long and caught all of the rigging on fire. I didn't notice it was on fire at first until it turned into a flash and smoke.  So now I get to re-rig everything again. I don't think I'll be using flames again.  

 

So what does everyone use for all of the open and closed hearts for the rigging? Do you just make your own? 

[Mexspur]

I purchased some from Cornwall model boats. I think most hobby shops would have a selection.

[Twahl]

I need to rig E13 and E12. It looks like it's supposed to tie into the gammoning. Is this correct? I've looked in longridge and can't find the answer.  From looking in McKay it is the jib stay but he doesn't show how to attach it.  Ideas? 

[Twahl]

E12 is listed in McKay as #32 and is just called stay. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Twahl
Replaced post

[Ian_Grant]

Confusing diagrams, not very well drawn at vertices of the rope lines.

 

Lines that go to the end of the jib boom are the fore topgallant stay and the fore topgallant bowlines. They pass through thimbles in one of several spans tied round the tip of the jib boom; see Longridge Fig 165 pg 235.

 

The bowlines, part of the running rigging, simply tie off to pins on the "topsail sheet bitts" (the bitts in front of the foremast; see Longridge pg 269). You can see the bowlines running down from the fore topgallant yard in Plan #7, the foldout running rigging diagram, but they are not our concern here.

 

I think E13 is your fore topgallant stay. The fore topgallant stay ends in a tackle arrangement (Longridge pg 223) connected to an eyebolt on the front face of the port knighthead (see top of Plan # 10 on pg 266), not the gammoning. The end of the purchase is frapped around itself as the fore topgallant stay is only rarely re-tightened. Possibly the gammoning was used in an earlier era as I have seen such on 17th century ship models.

 

Note that you will need to add three eyebolts on the front face of each knighthead, for the tackles listed in Plan 10.

 

I think E12 is your jib stay, although badly drawn in your bowsprit Figure. It attaches to a "traveller" which slides along the jib boom (see Longridge Fig 165 again, pg 235).  The jib stay is described on pp 224-225. From the traveller it passes up and through a sheave on the side of the fore topmast just below the cap (see Plan #9 just before pg 229) and ends in a tackle to one of the trestle trees as Longridge states. You can see E12 in your drawing running up to below the topmast cap. The purchase of this tackle runs down the foremast to a belaying pin on the "main top bowline bitts" (just behind the foremast; see pg 269). This is because if they want to shift the traveller position to ease the helmsman's task (shifting the jib back and forth alters the tendency of the ship to yaw into or away from the wind at a given trim and course), they must be able to adjust the total length of the jib stay.

 

Both these stays are seen in Plan #6, the foldout standing rigging diagram. You can just make out an indication of the traveller near the tip of the jib boom if you squint at it.

 

Fabricating the jib traveller is challenging, depending on what level of detail you want, but is a great addition to the model. Forewarning - there is also a flying jib traveller for the flying jib stay, which slides along the even smaller flying jib boom. It's even more challenging to make.

 

Longridge always has the information, but it is a challenging book to sort through. Really for the plastic modeller it all boils down to pg 204 to the end; everything before that (except for some diagrams) is only of concern to those making a wooden hull. I read through the rigging chapters many many times while waiting for my son to change at hockey practices and games years ago, and many times again more recently to help answer questions from Bill. 😄

 

Happy modelling!

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[Twahl]

Ian thank you for your help.  I can see and track what I need to do now.  I added some rings to the knightheads already, I didn't know why I needed them originally.  I saw them on Dafi's site so I figured they'd be needed at some point.  

[Twahl]

Dafi sent me his newest version of the figurehead. It's amazing.  The detail at this level is awesome.  Here it is primed and rough painted. Thank you again Dafi.

[Twahl]

Btw... does anyone else get "sea sick" when you're wearing magnifying glasses? I can only wear them for about an hour then I start to feel motion sick.  It's weird.  I wonder if I have them adjusted wrong or something.  

[ccoyle]

8 hours ago, Twahl said:

Btw... does anyone else get "sea sick" when you're wearing magnifying glasses?

 

I have two headband magnifiers. One is the type that has the lens mounted in a hood, the other does not. The one without the hood makes me sick after awhile, probably because it allows for a large, unmagnified peripheral field of vision while using it. The magnifier with the hood is the cheap kind from Harbor Freight -- I can use that one for hours without any problems.

[RossR]

What power are the lenses?   I haven’t had good luck with wearing magnifying glasses. I use a work light with a magnify glass in the middle.   Purchased from Menards and it comes with a 3x and 5x magnifying glass.   I have really good luck using it.  I think the ability to easily look away without the magnification helps a lot.  Only problem is the end of my paintbrushes will sometime hit the magnifying glass. 

 

The light has three brightness settings and can be switched from warm light to cool light also.  I find that if my eyes get tired switching the color of the light helps.  
 

https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/lamps/desk-lamps/patriot-lighting-reg-apollo-integrated-led-magnifier-desk-lamp/tt0034/p-1539153039752-c-1531402259058.htm?tid=6239696710344362952&ipos=7&exp=true 

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

First off, that new version of the figurehead is stellar. Even though I'm more or less capable of doing quite a lot in 3D modelling myself, it won't surprise me if I head over to Daniel's shop for things like this when I go back to my Victory.

 

Headband magnifiers - I only use mine in extremis because I find it so difficult to work with this on my head. It's when you need to look away that's the problem, i.e. to pick something up or whatever. I also have a lamp like Ross, but it only magnifies to about X2. Every now and then I look on the web for something 'perfect', which would be like this: it must be glass, not acrylic (the latter scratches too easily); it needs to go up to X4; it needs to be BIG! At least 5" or 6". I'm not sure such a thing exists or, if it does, is affordable. Even at X2 I'm hitting the lens with my brushes, but one day I'll probably cut down a set to suit.

[Twahl]

Got the Dafi's etched chains installed and sprayed the boat with Alclad aqua clear in preparation for weathering.  The chains were a lot of work but they look incredible.  

[Ian_Grant]

Yes, they do add a lot to the model. I remember being thrilled too. Good job taping the bee lines! Nice model!

[dafi]

Wonderfully done! Thanx for showing.

 

All the ebst, DAniel

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Very tidy paintwork, you’re making me itchy to get back to the Victory. Yours is the first time I’ve really noticed the front two gunports left closed, I like that. I don’t think I’ve yet opened them on my second hull, might keep it that way. And those chains do look good, don’t they.

[Twahl]

I did some light weathering with some salt stains and a few rust streaks. I tried to follow some pictures from the real ship to replicate it.  After weathering I coated with Alclad matte lacquer. Doing the weathering I realized I should have sanded off the wood grain as others have recommended.  The salt stains highlighted the grain more than i would have liked so i had to really thin it down.

 

It was a snowy day here so I was also able to get the hammock cranes and netting finished. Now on to the masts. 

[Twahl]

So I wasn't quite satisfied with the rigging I previously did on the bowsprit after I burned it all up so I decided to redo it again. Third time is the charm. 

 

I'm now rigging the rest of the bowsprit and I have a question that I can't find the answer to in Longridge or my other resources.  The stays that go through the dolphin striker, where do they tie off? From what I can tell it looks like they just tie off behind the wing looking things on the main bowsprit (I'm sure they have an official name). Do they just wrap around and tie off to themselves or is it one continual wrap that goes to the jibboom and back? I appreciate any help.  

[Ian_Grant]

The stays through the dolphin striker are, from top down, the inner martingale (Longridge pg 227),  outer martingale (pg227), flying martingale (pg 227), and fore royal stay (pg 224).

 

The martingales all belay with purchases to the port or starboard knighthead, each of which has three eyebolts on its front face. See Plan 10 on pg 266 for notes.

 

Plan 10 shows that in addition to the martingales, the fore topmast stay, fore topmast preventer stay, and fore topgallant stay also belay on the knightheads.

 

Longridge states that the fore royal stay can belay to the forestay collar, or a knighthead; but as he already has three lines to each knighthead he apparently decided it must belay to the collar.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[Twahl]

Thank you for your quick response. So if I'm reading it correctly then, and comparing it with the drawings from McGowan's book, the stays would go through the blocks that are shown in front of the bobstays correct? And the inner martingale would wrap around the bottom thimble of the jib traveler? 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Twahl

[Twahl]

This is how heller shows it on the new plans.  

[Twahl]

I knocked out a jib traveler.  I managed to make a reasonable copy on my second attempt after I remembered the importance of Flux when soldering.  

[Ian_Grant]

On 3/25/2023 at 9:39 PM, Twahl said:

Thank you for your quick response. So if I'm reading it correctly then, and comparing it with the drawings from McGowan's book, the stays would go through the blocks that are shown in front of the bobstays correct? And the inner martingale would wrap around the bottom thimble of the jib traveler?

Yes that's correct.  I would ignore the Heller rigging notes judging by that new diagram. I know I ignored their notes in my old Heller Victory instruction sheets. Longridge is your bible for Victory.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[Twahl]

I got the carronades finally installed.  I don't know why I was putting them off but for some reason I was not excited to do them.  

 

The work on the jib and jibboom continues.  I've got a question.  Where do the jib guys belay to above the round houses?  I was thinking on the front of the fore castle but longridge doesn't back that up.  Do they just frap around the block and tackle?

 

I've got to get a bit more delicate working around all of the lines.  Sometimes I feel like I'm wearing boxing gloves and I'm sick of having to fix stuff I keep snagging and breaking off.  

[Ian_Grant]

On my model, I frapped the guy pendant and flying jibboom guy tackles around themselves since they are rarely adjusted.

 

I belayed the traveling guy to a timberhead on the front rail since it would need to be adjusted every time they moved the jib traveler.

 

Made sense to me. 🤔

 

Note Longridge calls it the "traveling guy" in the text describing the guys (pp 227-228) but it is labelled as the "jibboom guy" on pg266.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[Ian_Grant]

Errata on my last post - see correction in red. Sorry for the confusion!

[Twahl]

I have an opinion question.  I just finished installing my masts and am getting ready to do the main stays. I served up the ropes that I got from Syren and I don't think I like them served.  The rope looks so good and then it gets covered by the serving.  If I didn't serve them would all of the other kids laugh at me? I'm still planning on serving the lines for the stays as they're just string that I got from Amati. They don't look nearly as good as the Syren ones.  Opinions would be appreciated.  

[Twahl]

I decided I'd better do it right and serve the whole main or I'd regret it later.  So I served it up and the fore mast stays as well.  Then I decided to double check Longridge and found on pg 221 that the stays are only served to a point 2 feet below the mouse, and from that part down it is wormed only.  I really need to start double checking before I do stuff so I don't have to redo it multiple times.  I wasted 4 hours serving up all those lines.  Good practice I guess though.  

[dafi]

Here some pictures from the Invincible Wreck Site on Facebook.

The only original stay and preventer with their mouses that I know, only 50 years before Big V.

 

Interesting is, that they are completely served only in the area of the mouse, the rest of the mainstay is only wormed, the preventer apparently not ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

XXXDAn

 

source: https://www.facebook.com/InvincibleWreckSite

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by dafi

[Twahl]

Those pictures are awesome! The clarity is incredible.