How to prep lines....

[CPDDET]

Will start doing rigging soon on my Bluenose. I understand that the lines should first be coated with a 50 -50 solution of water and white glue .

I also read the lines should be pre stretched. Wondered what is the best way to accomplish this.

I'm building the MS model #2130 which comes with several different diameter size lines. Not sure what material these lines are made from.

Any help would much appreciated. 

Dave

[Dave_E]

Hi Dave, might be asking the never ending, forever opinionated answers question. I have used absolute crap rope that came with a kit and some of the best aftermarket scale rope you can get. The good stuff needs nothing. That’s all I can say from my experience rigging my first ship. If you have quality scale rope, it is virtually ready to go to work. I’ve learned a lot from reading build logs and asking questions. I feel safe saying there is no one rule for preparing rope for rigging.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Dave_E

[Oldsalt1950]

Dave, MS calls their supplied lines as a cotton /poly mix. I would take their line and hang it over a shower rod with the ends weighted to remove the kinks that may be present. Be sure and label the size. When you get ready to actually use the line for rigging, cot the end at a slight angle and apply a little ca to it so it is stiff and won't unravel as you are working with it. 

[Ed Ku20]

Dave, the MS line in my kit was identified as nylon.  I did not do anything special to my line before using it.  But, I applied a generous coating of beeswax to every piece I used.  Make sure to run it through your fingers several times to press it into the line and remove the excess.  This is supposed to help protect the lines and also keeps the knots more secure.  Dilute white glue is for treating the knots so they do not come apart.  This is supposed to be better because it does not turn stiff like CA does.  I would not recommend coating the lines with it.  I think it would make a mess!!  Well, I tried using the dilute PVA on knots initially, but had zero success.  These knots kept untying on me.  Plus it takes forever to dry!  I switched to thin CA early on.  I made myself an applicator from one of those long thin straight pins.  I bent a tiny hook at the end to hold a dab of CA, snipped off the head and inserted it into a dowel.  This works great for me!

 

Sometimes I used Old Salt's method of applying a touch of ca on the ends to keep them from unraveling.  But, if you are trying to thread a block, it makes it more difficult.  You either have to cut it on the angle or roll it in your fingers to make it thin enough for the larger line sizes.  I hate getting that glue on my fingers!  I used one of those needle threaders for sewing to thread most of my rigging.

[CPDDET]

Thanks for all the tips and clues!

I still have some metal work and painting to finish up before rigging the bowsprit. I'll do some trial methods of prepping the line and keep you all posted.

[CPDDET]

Just some base information. The kit I'm building is the Model Shipways Bluenose, kit #MS2130.

It comes with 6 different size lines. Just found out these are a cotton / poly blend.

 

[CPDDET]

Email I sent to Model Expo/ Model Shipways:

"I'm in the process of building Bluenose, a kit I purchased from you some time ago.
I have a question about the various size lines that came with the kit. Can you tell me what material these lines are made from? Do I need to treat these lines or pre stretch them before using them? I want to avoid any future sagging in the rigging."

 

Answer received:

 

Hello, Dave.

 

The rigging line provided in your Bluenose kit is made in Germany by Griffin.de.  They specialize in what they call Jewelry Nylon. This is the premiere line used for stringing pearls and beads. It is almost un-stretchable and knots easily and securely. There is no better thread for rigging model ships. It is unlikely that you'll see any sagging of the line in the future.

 

 

Marc Mosko, President

Model Shipways Inc. dba Model Expo

1155 NW 159th Drive, Miami Gardens, Florida 33169

www.modelexpo-online.com

954-261-7054

 

[CPDDET]

Email sent to Ropes of Scale:

Sirs,

I'm fast approaching the rigging stage of my Bluenose and had some questions. The kit supplies 6 sizes of rigging lines / rope. All of these are cotton poly material.

 

After spending the better part of the day trying to research the most appropriate material for my rigging, I'm more confused than ever. Some say lines should be pre stretched, some say a 50 / 50 mixture of white glue and water should be applied first; some say both. Others claim to use bees wax or even matt finish nail polish.

 

I see you offer both cotton and poly lines. Perhaps you could explain the pros and cons of each material. 

 

Of importance to me is avoiding line sag over time, gluing ability, ability to hold knots, UV protection.

 

Since this is my first build I would like to get solid information from an experienced source.

 

Any technical information you could pass along would be much appreciated.

 

Answer received:

 

Hello Dave,

 

I think I read your post on MSW. I can understand the confusion about the whole topic. Everyone has their own approach to rigging and how it should be done. Every type of cordage has its quirks.

 

If you want to avoid sagging lines you should stay away from cotton. My poly rope is really strong, easy to use, and has no fuzz. I've tried PVA and thin CA for gluing knots/seizings and they both work. PVA is the weaker option and it takes the longest since it needs drying. Thin CA is really easy and it penetrates the rope to make a strong bond. For UV protection I would recommend Vallejo Matt Acrylic Varnish diluted 50/50, only use it after you have glued all the knots. If you varnished the rope before using it the glue won't penetrate. 

 

Bob Smith Industries has the best CA glues from my experience. The Insta cure super thin is good. The Insta flex thin is also great if you don't want rock-solid joints that stick out at odd angles, it also has less odor than most.

 

You can always try your own experiments and see what you like. 

 

I hope I haven't made things more confusing for you.

 

Best regards,

 

Ben

[CPDDET]

So I will probably order some line from Ropes of Scale and do some side by side comparisons with the line that came with the kit. 

[CPDDET]

From the Griffin website:

 

 

Product information "Jewelry Nylon"

GRIFFIN Jewelry Nylon is a Nylon bead cord that is twisted once and made from premium nylon with a polished finish, long-lasting highly brilliant colour and supple softness combined with extremely robust thread properties. It is durable and easy to knot as it contracts back to its original length after it has been stretched, making it possible to create precise permanent knots.

[CPDDET]

The information that the kit lines were a cotton -poly blend came from the parts list that was included with the model.

Guess that was wrong.

[Ed Ku20]

Dave,  the parts list in both of my MS kits (Bluenose & Rattlesnake) does say "Jewelry Nylon".

[CPDDET]

That's a bit odd, since we both have the same kit. 

But at least now I know for sure.

[Dave_E]

You will NOT be disappointed with any purchase from Ben at Ropes of Scale, or Chuck at Syren. Promise! 👍

Edited July 6, 2022 by Dave_E

[Peanut6]

Yes, Ben at Ropes of Scale produces an exceptional product.  I haven't had the chance to sample Chuck's product but I've heard it is excellent as well.  I run my line a few times over some bee's wax.  In addition to protecting the line long term, taking the fuzzies out of cotton line, it also helps to make the line run/lay in a more natural fashion which takes the "mind of it's own" attitude out of the line.  The poor quality line supplied with my Jolly Boat kit was tough to work with in all aspects and I actually had to abandon some rigging features I really wanted to incorporate.  Now using Ben's line has been like night and day.  I've been able to incorporate the rigging features I couldn't before, experience zero stretch, knots easily and securely, and a touch of bee's wax eliminates the already reduced "mind of it's own" attitude.

[CPDDET]

Thanks for sharing. I do plan on ordering some samples to work with.

 

I see Ben sells both cotton and polyester lines. Since the cotton will sag over time, I'm assuming that the cotton is used for running rigging and the polyester for standing rigging. But will try and confirm this with Ben 

Edited July 6, 2022 by CPDDET
change

[CPDDET]

Email to Ben at Ropes of Scale:

 

Morning Ben,

 

After reading your comments I assume that your cotton line is to be used for running rigging and the polyester for standing rigging.

 

Is this assumption correct?

 

Dave

 

 

Reply from Ben at Ropes of Scale:

 

Hello Dave,

 

I would just stick with the polyester for all of the rigging. The only reason I keep the cotton line in stock is that I have a few customers that refuse to use polyester for some reason. They begged me to keep selling the cotton rope. 

 

Cotton rope is fuzzy and has less texture, the more you work with it on the model the more fuzz comes out. The polyester doesn't do that even if you try. The thread I use for the polyester rope is Gutermann E. It is the strongest and most abrasion-resistant thread I've ever seen. I've used it to replace the slacked rope on some of my old models, It holds the same tension all year round. The cotton sags and tightens with the seasons.

 

I hope this clears things up for you.

Regards,

Ben

 

 

 

[CPDDET]

At least for me, that about sums things up. Always nice to learn new things!

[dvm27]

With all due respect I believe that natural rope does have a bit of a catenary or sag to it which I find quite natural and graceful. It is one of the lovely features of the Navy Board models and is quite difficult to emulate on a model. 

[BenD]

8 minutes ago, dvm27 said:

With all due respect I believe that natural rope does have a bit of a catenary or sag to it which I find quite natural and graceful. It is one of the lovely features of the Navy Board models and is quite difficult to emulate on a model. 

This is probably the reason why I have some people only buying my cotton rope. 

 

I'm looking into some options for linen thread. I ordered some from a company in US, we will see if it can handle rope making or not. Really well combed and processed linen thread is king, just finding it in quantities for ropemaking is the problem. Linen is what you will find on most old models. It can last for ages.

[Peanut6]

CPDDET, I've found Ben to be a fountain of rope information.  He has a thread regarding rope making history where he's attached videos that I find very educational. informative, interesting and just enjoyable to watch.  He obviously has a passion for rope and this truly shows in his knowledge and the quality of his product. 

[BenD]

13 minutes ago, Peanut6 said:

CPDDET, I've found Ben to be a fountain of rope information.  He has a thread regarding rope making history where he's attached videos that I find very educational. informative, interesting and just enjoyable to watch.  He obviously has a passion for rope and this truly shows in his knowledge and the quality of his product. 

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/31240-ropewalk-a-cordage-engineers-journey-through-history/ for those interested in 1/1 scale ropemaking 😁

 

To say I'm obsessed would be an understatement.