Le Soleil Royal by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100

[Bill97]

So out they all will be!

[Bill97]

OK Henry I am solidly into your build comments from almost 10 years ago (comment #20 is dated August 2013). The whole section on making your hooks, rings for ring bolts, eyebolts, and carriage bolts is where I am engrossed.  Now that I have decided on my cannon position I can begin the process of making all the needed hardware. I think I am confident in how the 3 tackles are rigged. I have 2.5 mm blocks for the tackles. A tiny bit bigger than the 2 mm you used. Should be fun trying to tie tiny hooks to the tiny blocks as you did in your build. Tell me if I am correct in my understanding of your pictures.
 

It appears your breaching rope (which is heavier than the haul tackles) is connected to the eyebolts on each side of the hatch without using hooks. 

 

You have 3 eyebolts in each carriage, one each side and one on the back. 
 

You used a basic tackle having a single and a double sheeve block with hooks at all 3 locations (2 out-hall and one in-hall). All 3 tackles use hooks at both ends that hook into the various eyebolts either on the cannon carriages, the deck, or the inside of the hull?
 

You used an optional ring boat in the deck for connecting the in-haul tackle. Just using an eyebolt in the deck would work as well for the in-haul tackle. 

 

Henry I know this is a lot of analysis but please take this as a compliment to your work that I want to reflect it in my work. 
 

Bill

[popeye2sea]

Your analysis is 100% spot on.

 

The breeching is not usually removed from the carriage or bulkhead so it is semi-permanently attached with a hitch and seizing.

The tackles are frequently removed and/or shifted so they have hooks in the eye of the strop.

2.5mm blocks should work as long as you are careful with the attachment of the tackle fall to the single block and the length of your hooks.  You may find that there is insufficient drift between the two blocks to look good.

The ring bolt on the deck can be substituted with a plain eyebolt.

 

Regards,

Henry

[Bill97]

Thanks Henry for your confirmation of my thought. For my clarification could you explain  “attachment of the tackle fall to the single block” in your comment?  Getting close to understanding mist nautical terms?  I could probably guess and/or figure out what you mean. But, I am sure to be correct if you don’t mind explaining. 
 

Got the 12 cannons for this next task assembled and painted. Also add the 3 eyebolts to each for hooking the hauls to the carriage. Used a bunch of the brass eyebolts I made and blackened. Also cut lengths of appropriate weight rigging thread for the breeching ropes and ran the ropes through the holes I drilled in the carriages. 
 

Now to set these little guys aside and start working on all the other hardware I am going to need to rig the cannons to include tiny hooks and ring bolts. 
 

Henry you can see the 2.5 mm blocks against the carriage. Will have to wait to see how much distance I have between the two blocks in the tackle to determine how far I want to run the cannon out. May need to haul them in just a bit to get a pleasing look to the out-haulers. Don’t want the two blocks right up together. Once I get that figured out I can put the eyebolt in the deck at a distance to get a pleasing in hailer length. 

[Ian_Grant]

Hi Bill, your modified show guns with new wheel and trunnion positions look great!  Nice job.

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. 

[Hubac's Historian]

This problem of carriage block sizing, at this scale, is one that I’ve been considering for a while.  I think the max that one can get away with is 2mm.  For my part, I will probably play around with simulating blocks with knotting and paint.

[popeye2sea]

Regarding your question about the fall of the tackle.

The fall is the rope that gets rove through the blocks.  There are two ends to every piece of running rigging; the standing end which is fixed to an object, and the working end which is the end that gets hauled upon.

In the case of the tackle fall, the standing end gets hitched to the loop (the becket) at the bottom of the single block. At the other end of the block an eye in the strop takes the hook. The fall is then rove through one hole in the double block, back through the hole in the single block and thence through the second hole of the double block. The working end (hauling part) of the rope is then coiled (flaked) on the deck.

 

What I was referring to in my previous post is that if you make that hitch overly large you will not be able to get your blocks close enough together. The hitch takes up some of that space being part of that first leg of the tackle from the single to the double block. The other place that will eat up your available space is if you make your hooks too long. You will then not have enough room for the tackle between.

When I was making my hooks I modified a pair of I think they are called ring nose pliers. I ground down one tip to about a half millimeter round. That is the tool I make all my hooks and eyes with.  The hooks end up being about 1.5mm or there about long. So if you are using 2.5mm blocks with the hooks, just the hardware without the strops and fall is already 8mm long.  You may quickly run out of room for your tackles.

 

One other thing to note. I see you are using blocks with only one hole.  A common mistake is how you orient the blocks when rigging. The hole represents the throat of the block that is at the top of the round sheave that the rope rides around in the block. This hole will always be at the eye end of the block.  In other words you want the holes of the two tackle blocks to be furthest away from each other.  Visually the rope will have the appearance of laying along both sides of the block. If your rope appears to go through the hole and then immediately away from the block with the bulk of the block hanging out beyond then you have your blocks rove and stropped upside down.

 

Regards,

Henry

Edited April 2, 2023 by popeye2sea

[Bill97]

Thanks Henry. Very informative. I am working to create a complete prototype tackle off the ship. At this size I am studying what rigging parts I can eliminate or modify so as to get the most room between the blocks. Possibly eliminate the becket and strop if I can figure out a way to tie the hook and fall directly to the ends of the block. Don’t know how this will look yet. But at 2.5mm and sewing thread I wondered if it will be noticeable. I measured the distance from the eyebolt next to the hatch and the eyebolt in the carriage where I will connect the tackle.  Placing the cannon where it looks OK in a run-out position I have 1” of space between the eyebolts. So I need a tackle 1” long from tip of hook to to tip of hook. 
 

I was not planning to use all single sheave blocks. I have tons of various size boxwood blocks but no 2.5mm double sheave. As far as I can discover on line there is no such thing. I can move up to a much more expensive block to get a 2.5 mm double sheave but I am hoping I can somehow make a single sheave work for both ends of the tackle. Maybe drill the hole a bit bigger and just run the fall through the same hole twice to finish the tackle. Again it is so small not sure it will be noticeable. 
 

Marc I am hopeful I can make these 2.5 work. 

[Bill97]

Roamed around in the Maritime Ship Museum in Savannah today. Some absolutely beautiful ships on display there. My wife, more of a history buff, enjoyed reading all the ship biographies. While she read the biography at each case I looked at the construction and rigging, and took photos for my reference use later. Picked up some great tips.  Highly recommend this museum if you find yourself sometime in Savanah, GA. 

 

One thing I did notice is that all the ship models are wood. I have only built plastic but have wondered if someday I might want to try a wooden model. My concern would how much of my work room tools and supplies would have to be refitted for wood instead of plastic. 

[Hubac's Historian]

Awesome pics, Bill!  The plastic to wood dilemma is one that I think about a lot.  I’m building this particular model because I had a very particular idea about what to do with the kit, and my living situation - extremely limited space, often shared with high-school homework - precludes any real shop set-up.

 

I hope, while I’ve still “got it” to set-up an actual shop space for wooden modeling.  As far as I can figure, there are a few essentials:

 

micro table-saw

thickness sander/planer

small bandsaw/fret-saw

small combo disc/belt sander

dust collection; portable or permanent

 

Luxuries would include a mill (especially if you are doing full plank-on-frame models), and a spindle sander.

 

That’s all a little gold off the nest-egg, but if it  brings you joy, I know that Marie Kondo would endorse it 😀

 

To my mind, available space is the biggest blockade 🙃

Edited April 6, 2023 by Hubac's Historian

[Bill97]

Ok guys here is my first cannon tackle prototype. I am using 2.5mm blocks. I obviously made the hooks from 24 gauge wire and blackened them. I eliminated the becket on the block in an attempt to get as much space between the blocks as possible. If I go with this I think I will need to move the unseen cannons in just a bit to get the ends of the barrels uniform. 

[Bill97]

Thanks Marc. Your comments about plastic to wood leads me to believe you saw my topic on MSW about that. Eventhough I have a pretty complete wood working shop most of the tools/machinery is intended for much bigger work, not necessarily micro wood ship work. 
 

By the way in the museum photos above I looked at this one particular French ship and thought of you and your interest in French ships and design. The Languedoc. Interesting story. 
 

Bill

[Bill97]

Both prototype out-haul tackles and the breeching rope. Breaching rope not seized yet. Thoughts, recommendations, opinions. This is on just one cannon until I confirm my plan. 

[Hubac's Historian]

That’s an awesome model of a 74.  I like the planking cut-away to the framing.

[Bill97]

Question my friends. Would it look odd or inaccurate if I hauled in all the cannons on this deck uniform to where the end of the barrel just protruded out the hatch. All the cannons on the lower decks are hauled all the way out. Would all of the cannons on all the decks been uniformly hauled?  I want to haul the visible cannons I am rigging in some to give more distance between the blocks. I will need to break loose and haul-in all the cannons I already have glued. Or if they are going to be particularly hauled in should they be all the way hauled in.?

[Hubac's Historian]

My impulse would be to use smaller blocks - 2mm.  Or, perhaps, to even simulate the blocks with knots, a little gesso, and paint.

[Bill97]

I will have to say 2.5mm blocks is about as small as my old eyes and fingers can manipulate!  I even had to use a micro drill bit to increase the size of the pre drilled sheave hole so I could push a needle threader through. I am just going to use this size and attempt to position the cannons to where I have a bit of space between the two blocks and have a small portion of the cannon barrel extending out if the hatch. I think this will look alright fully knowing the block scale is just a little off but still somewhat accurately depicts the working of the cannon rigging. 

[Hubac's Historian]

I agree that this is a reasonable work-around, Bill.  The fact that you are even going to the trouble to rig the visible guns is a tremendous upgrade and you can’t fail to achieve a nice result.

 

First day in Paris:

Not at all surprisingly, Dad is completely jet-lagged and now taking a late-afternoon nap.  He did much better on the flight than we expected, though, so that’s a huuuuge plus!

 

If I manage to see any cool ship stuff, I’ll post those pics later.

 

All the best,

 

M

[Bill97]

Fantastic Marc. Is this your first Paris trip?

[Bill97]

Getting the cannons on my he starboard side rigged. Knowing that the 2.5mm blocks are just a slight bit to large, but living with them anyway, I set up the in-hauler and two out-haulers. I sort of divided the difference to get a bit of cannon barrel extended out the hatch and a small bit between the blocks on the haulers. I know it is not to scale but it does reflect the concept and operation. I have also added the breeching rope. I decided to go with the falls of the tackles rolled in coils and laying on the deck instead of draped across the rear of the barrel. Five on starboard side still need their in-hauler. Then move to the port side. 

[Hubac's Historian]

Well done on the coils, Bill!

[Bill97]

Thanks Marc.  Just going to have to live with the out of scale blocks.  How is it going in Paris?

[popeye2sea]

Just a quick note on my draping of the rope coils across the barrels. I do not know if that was actually done. It was a bit of artistic license to highlight the difference from the cannons on the other side that are run out and in -battery ready to fire. The coils draped over the barrels are intended to show cannons that are readied on the un-engaged side of a battle.

 

Regards,

Henry

[Hubac's Historian]

13 hours ago, Bill97 said:

How is it going in Paris?

So far, the trip has been a great success and our Dad has been very happy to visit so many familiar places.

 

This morning, I am sitting in the grand oval reading room of the INHA, which is a part of the National Library of France.  I am continuing my quest for the “Gilded Ghost” portrait.

 

I’ve made a request to see the 2 volume set of Les Chevaliers de Tourville monograph, which I have never seen, in person, before.

 

It’s a bit of a dreary day, so I’m not sure what the afternoon has in-store for us.  Tonight is our fancy dinner at Lasserre!

Edited April 12, 2023 by Hubac's Historian

[Bill97]

Henry I like your coils draped over the cannons. I first attempted that but mine came no where close to looking like your’s. I know one of the problems was that I was trying to do it with the extra length of the falls I had already threaded through the forward block. You were wise enough to make them off the ship. 
 

Marc I am glad for you and your dad that he is enjoying the trip. Best of luck on your quest of the Gilded Ghost. 

[Bill97]

Completed rigging the he 6 show cannons n the starboard side. The 2.5mm blocks are a bit crowded but the display does show the working of the in and out hauls. Not perfect but I am satisfied. 

[Hubac's Historian]

Tres bien!

[Bill97]

Merci.  😊

[Bill97]

Marc I hope all is going well with your trip to Paris with your dad.  Will look forward to sharing bits with us on your return. 
 

I am interested in something you did during your build and wonderful you would mind to share a little of your thought process as to why you did it?  I am finishing up the installation and rigging of the show cannons. When I take a break from that I am looking ahead to my next task. That is going to be installing the forecastle deck and the corresponding deck (whatever it is called) at the aft end of the ship. I see in your build you added some pieces you made to this task. You have additional knees, beams, and what I think you called gussets?  Was this because you created a new decks for this application? Wondering if this is something you recommend?  I am of course using the deck sections included with the kit. They seem satisfactory as far as stiffness.