popeye2sea Posted December 20, 2023 Share #1351 Posted December 20, 2023 4 hours ago, Bill97 said: Thanks Henry. I am not going to add the staysails. My attempt at using glue on the sheets was much minimally effective. My next idea is to use a piece of small gauge wire of some sort that has very little flex to it. See if I can maybe place it serve it the sheet. That may make the sheet look to our of scale and be a bad idea. Another option would be to work small wire into the leach rope of the sprit sail and then use that to change the drape of the sail. Could work. I've never tried it though I did stiffen up my foot rope horses by worming the rope with wire. The wire needs to be color matched to the rope if you don't to want to put a service on. That worked out pretty well. Regards, Henry Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirill4 Posted December 22, 2023 Share #1352 Posted December 22, 2023 (edited) Good day Bill, This picture by J.Budriot could be usefull in your SR rigging https://cloud.mail.ru/public/GFhj/r5sWcuzJ4 on the last pages of his book he gives very good details of rigging https://cloud.mail.ru/public/6ptu/hGjgw2XzZ Edited December 22, 2023 by kirill4 Bill Morrison 1 Quote Current Build: Spanish Galleon, Lee, 1:100 https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6262-spanish-galleon-1607-by-kirill4-lee-plastic-1100/& https://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic10341/ Dutch 16-17 Arts Sailing Vessels in details https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/rijksstudio/1845326--kirill-shabanov/collections/arts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share #1353 Posted December 22, 2023 Ok here is what I ultimately did. I selected the smallest gauge wire that was still strong enough to remain somewhat stiff. I ran it along side the spritsail sheet from the corner of the sail to the eyebolt in the hull that the sheet reeves through. A touch of CA glue at each end and some thread color paint satisfactorily hid the wire. Then from the eyebolt to the block for the sheet and the sheet tackle that passes through the hole in the hull I increased the size of the thread I used for the sheet to match the combined diameter of the wire and smaller thread that runs along the wire (if any of that makes since). The overall effect appears as a thread running from the sail through the eyebolt and making the tackle. I also finished rigging all three foremast sails. As you can see in the photo I did pull up the fore sail and rigged all the lines that would have been rigged if it was set. Eventually I will go back and add coils to all the belay points. Hubac's Historian, Ian_Grant, kirill4 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted December 22, 2023 Share #1354 Posted December 22, 2023 She's looking great, Bill. You'll be done by Christmas day! What's next in 2024? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted December 23, 2023 Author Share #1355 Posted December 23, 2023 Thanks Ian. Probably not by Christmas but maybe by the early part of 2024. Still a good bit of sail rigging to do and then a few odd and end things on the ship like the lanterns and such. Still have not done anything with the boats yet. Got something completely new planned after my SR for 2024! Ferrus Manus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted December 23, 2023 Author Share #1356 Posted December 23, 2023 Two steps forward one step back. Looking closely at the photo you will notice I installed and rigged my spritsail backward. The hem I sewed all around the sides show to the front. Have to take it down, turn it around, rehang and rerig again. Ian_Grant, popeye2sea and kirill4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted December 24, 2023 Author Share #1357 Posted December 24, 2023 MERRY CHRISTMAS to all my MSW friends I have developed over my modeling years. Hope you have a beautiful season! Bill Ferrus Manus, Hubac's Historian and Ian_Grant 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted December 26, 2023 Author Share #1358 Posted December 26, 2023 My friends I have a general rigging question I have not given a lot of thought to. In running rigging if there is a line that comes down from the top sail or topgallant sail and through blocks tied to the lower shrouds and on to wherever they belay, should all those lines be routed through the opening in the mast top and belay inside the shrouds? Or are there times when it is perfectly acceptable to have lines on the outside of the lower shrouds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted December 26, 2023 Share #1359 Posted December 26, 2023 (edited) Bill, The lead of the line will depend on how far out on the yard it's innermost leading block is fastened. In general, you want a fair lead down to the deck. Meaning, no bends in the rope passing over areas or objects where it can chafe. For instance, sheets, where the innermost block may be at some distance out in the quarters, may not have to be lead through the lubbers hole. Similarly, clew lines where the garnet block is at a distance out along the yard. On the other hand, bunt, leech, and lift lines, where there is a lead block up under the cap or in the trestle trees, will have their lead down through the lubbers hole. Regards, Henry Edited December 27, 2023 by popeye2sea Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted December 26, 2023 Author Share #1360 Posted December 26, 2023 Perfect Henry. Thanks. That is what I have. In a few instances there are lines that reeve through blocks on the outside of the shrouds in route to belay point. I was just curious if that was the proper case for crewman climbing the shrouds to occasionally encounter a rigging line or block? Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted December 27, 2023 Share #1361 Posted December 27, 2023 Yes, it does happen. Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus Manus Posted December 27, 2023 Share #1362 Posted December 27, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 9:57 AM, popeye2sea said: Maybe a piece of uranium would do? 😜 As long as it's not critical mass, you should be fine. If it is, you're dead in a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share #1363 Posted December 31, 2023 Went back and modified my spritsail sheet after I removed the spritsail because I insulted it backwards. This time I used a piece of 18 gauge wire and ran it all the way from the clew of the spritsail through the eyebolt in the hull and back to a point where it met up with the spritsail sheet tackle. I drilled a hole in the end of the block and using CA glued it to the end of the wire. I then rigged the rest of the sheet as I normally would using the same size thread (4.5mm) as the 18 gauge wire. I painted the wire a color as close as I could match the thread. The spritsail now has a nice billow and the sheet is taut. With the fore yard sails rigged I am making and installing the main yard sails. Ian_Grant and popeye2sea 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted January 5 Author Share #1364 Posted January 5 This rigging is getting intense!!! Of all the things I did to change the kit one that I am really glad is the belay points on the top of the bulwarks. Way back in the beginning I cut off all the plastic molded nibs on the rails and replaced them with strong blackened wire. The number of times I have tied and untied a line, as well as the tension I have applied would have destroyed the plastic belay points. Running rigging with sails is a true labor of love. Almost ever time I finish a line I discover it crossed another line and I have to redo it and lace it perfectly down from high in the masts to the deck. I truly find this a beautiful piece of art seeing all these lines running throughout the ship, and now as I have gained nautical knowledge knowing they each serve a very important function. Ian_Grant, BLACK VIKING, Hubac's Historian and 2 others 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted January 5 Share #1365 Posted January 5 She's looking very sharp. Great job! Regards, Henry Hubac's Historian and BLACK VIKING 2 Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted January 5 Author Share #1366 Posted January 5 Thanks Marc and Henry for your comment and emoji. As you can see in the next to last photo above (the one that shows the area between the fore and main mast), the buntlines off the main topgallant sail and the topsail are giving me grief over how they bend the stays they tie too. I know we discussed this way back in my build. I have loosened and tied, loosened and tied. I am thinking the buntlines probably were not taut on an actual ship but just more controlled the sail. So I am thinking I will allow a little slack in them so as to not bend the stay. I have the topgallant buntlines about as good as I can get with the stay. Just a slight bend in the stay. Still some tuning to do on the top sail buntlines and the stay. A bit to much zig zag for my liking in the stay. BLACK VIKING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted January 5 Share #1367 Posted January 5 Bill, I am assuming you meant bow lines and not bunt lines? No need to get the bow lines very tight. In reality only the weather bow line would have any strain on it. When sailing before the wind, yards nearly square, there is no need to haul any bow lines. Bow lines are primarily used to give the right shape to the sail when close hauled. Regards, Henry Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted January 6 Author Share #1368 Posted January 6 You’re right Henry. I am still memorizing these rigging lines, especially the ones attached to the sails. I got the sheet, tack, bowline (now), bunt line, and reef tackle down pat. I still am a bit confused the difference between clew line and a clew garnet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted January 6 Share #1369 Posted January 6 They are the same thing. Just two different names. Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted January 6 Share #1370 Posted January 6 Bill; for some historical reason, clew lines on the lower sails (only) are called clew garnets. Ours not to reason why, and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted January 6 Author Share #1371 Posted January 6 Great. I got that now. How about leach lines and bunt lines? Leach lines attach to the leach (side) of a sail and buntlines attach to the bottom of the sail? Both have the same purpose to help haul in the sail? I found this helpful reference photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted January 6 Share #1372 Posted January 6 Yes, bunt and leech lines have the same function, but they are applied to different parts of the sail, so...different name. Henry Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted January 6 Author Share #1373 Posted January 6 Perfect Henry. I might pass this quiz yet! 😀 Thanks my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted January 8 Author Share #1374 Posted January 8 Gentlemen if a sail is partially pulled up, that would include tightening the bunt lines a bit, would the pulled up lower portion of the sail most often be to the fore side of the sail or would it sometimes be to the aft side of the sail? With the bunt line rigged on the fore side of the sail, pulling on it pulls the sail up on the fore side b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted January 9 Share #1375 Posted January 9 The mechanism of pulling up (or gathering up) the sail is via the bunt and leech lines so they would be taut. The sail is pulled straight up. Since the bunt line blocks are hanging before the sail the sail does get pulled up towards the fore side of the yard. This works out well as the crew has to hand the sail from the fore side of the yard. Henry Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted January 9 Author Share #1376 Posted January 9 (edited) But then Henry how does that work with the clew line pulling up the corners on the aft side of the sail? I have my fore and main course sail pulled up just a little but I have them curled up to the aft. This may be wrong. Edited January 9 by Bill97 GrandpaPhil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted January 9 Share #1377 Posted January 9 You’re not going to like what I’m about to say Bill, and of course this is a matter of opinion, but I think your model will be better served if you show your lower courses fully set. The topsails, t’gallants, etc all look very good, but the material you are using for the sails is too heavy, in my opinion, to show a sail in its middle stages of being either set or furled. Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted January 9 Author Share #1378 Posted January 9 (edited) Marc that is something I am for sure struggling with right now. Have to come up with an acceptable solution that will not require me to fully unrig those two sails, take them off the yards, and make new ones. After I put them up I saturated them diluted white glue to hold their shape. I may attempt to spritz them with water to soften the glue and attempt a better minimal pull up that is not so dramatic. I am still confused how the buntlines and clewlines work in random. The clewlines pull the sail up toward the mast on the aft side of the sail while the buntlines pull the sail up on the fore side. I can’t figure out how that is possible. I may try to shape something like this photo that Ian suggested. In this arrangement are the buntlines and leach lines just loose? Edited January 9 by Bill97 Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted January 9 Share #1379 Posted January 9 Yes that's from my copy of Geoff Hunt's print "England Expects" with the main course clew hauled up a little to provide more air for the fore course. The bunt and leech lines would be loose. Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted January 9 Author Share #1380 Posted January 9 Could I get by pulling up the fore course similarly? I am actually, as you probably expect, just trying to expose the deck area for viewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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