HMS Greyhound by Srenner - Corel - 1:100

[Srenner]

I'm done... I've learned alot but there gets a point where you've done alot of detail and need to move on. I'm getting onto the forecastle area now.

 

I've ordered some 8k resin for the final prints and these prints I can practice some painting.

[Srenner]

I've been working on the forecast cabin which will be tucked under the forecastle deck.  Again the blender skills make it a long process but this time I made a dense mesh and cut out the windows using a boolean modifier... it seems to make better stl files back to chitubox ready for print.

 

The design is based on the 1710 design in the Goodwin book plus a few decorative elements added because I can...

 

The final one will be the captains cabin facade on the main deck at the stern. Im hoping that one will be quicker.

[Srenner]

The quarterdeck cabin facade is 90% complete, I just need to size it a bit better before I go to paint on that. And the foredeck cabin facade is better but I need to round it a little bit so that it fits the deck properly. 

 

I worked out I can print them together on the same build plate at the same time which saves some time in the printing.

 

To be honest I want to get back to doing some wood now.. i have had enough with the plastic at the moment.

[Srenner]

Wow I stepped up to the expensive resin phrozen aqua 8k grey and the print quality is amazing! Also bumped the temperature upto 40 degrees as it's pretty viscous. Normal layer exposure time 1.4 seconds and bottom layer 15 seconds.

 

It's straight onto painting now for these. I am going to fill the windows with the micro Kristal clear.

 

im working on some vertical volutes for the railing in blender with wood pattern as a detail plus the stern will be printed in the fancy resin.

 

And I can progress with the second planking in 1x4mm walnut.

 

[Srenner]

Wet and cold weekend here in Auckland perfect modelling weather. After all the printing and working on blender its been nice to get back to some wood and just using my hands to craft. And made a lot of progress.

 

Firstly painted the cabins at both ends with blue, white and gold. Filled in the glass with micro Kristal and gave it some weathering with black wash to bring out the details.

 

Then moved into the rails on the quarterdeck and the foredeck. Included is the tricky bend of six pieces of 3x1mm walnut around a half circle but in the end the wet paint brush and hot iron did a superb job of bending that wood around. A next have to edge bend a 5x1mm rail... not sure if that will work or I will have to cut it into peices. 

 

The quarter deck rail will be three pieces that cover the stern piece of printing I did. Waiting for paint on that before getting it in there.

 

Finally the second planking is well underway... the extreme cold today around 10 degrees was not setting the pva very fast so I was giving it a blast with the heat gun to get it to go off. Switched to CA for the last plank before bed tonight.

 

All in all a good days work in the model

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Srenner

[Srenner]

Finished the second planking on one side... moving to the other side. 

 

Question: what is the normal  whiteish color for under the waterline for royal navy 1700's . Acrylic paint number

[allanyed]

Assuming  your vessel is from before the use of copper sheathing and  it would have a bottom coated with white stuff this has been discussed here at MSW and may be a little help for you.  One such thread is at

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/2798-hull-white-stuff-on-17th-century-ship/ 

 

I doubt that there is one exact "right white" color but unbleached titanium dioxide mixed with a little yellow ochre and/or burnt umber should work.  Other members may have more details for you.  In the end, the paints were not made in a factory like PPG or Sherwin Williams with color standards to be met for every batch for every ship so the color could have varied a little from ship to ship.   Hopefully someone has more details for you.

Allan

[Srenner]

On the subject of quarter galleries... are they supposed to be keyed into the side of the hull or can it have some decoration on the front panel like some cherubs, scrollwork etc?

Edited June 17, 2023 by Srenner

[allanyed]

Depends on the nation, era, size, yard &c.   There are hundreds of photos of contemporary models on the RMG Collections web site that you can see and get some ideas.  The first photo below is  a contemporary model of a 5th rate at Preble Hall & shows a bit of detail.  Couple others from Preble follow as well.  If you do a search at RMG you can see the Lowestoft, 20, (1723)  It appears to have some sort of simple deco.  Other contemporary models have no decoration in that location.

Allan

 

[Srenner]

Thanks that's perfect... I just realized I will need to start again as the windows are not recessed but seem to be more stuck on the surface of the curve from the stern and that embossed stars pattern I can replicated between some decorative beading plus potential to put some wooden slats on the top as well.

[Srenner]

Been making progress on quarter galleries part 2... much happier with the overall solid and shape plus the details. 

3/4 finished now

[allanyed]

Srenner

The only thing that looks a little different for a quarter gallery in 1720 is the area at the level of the lights (what you call windows) as it curves back towards hull .   The curve back would start at the level of the bottom of the lights, not above it at the time of Greyhound.  Hard to describe in words so the pics posted above should help and maybe the one below.   Actually would a 20 gun of 1720 have badges rather than quarter galleries??  Just curious.

Allan

Edited June 25, 2023 by allanyed

[Srenner]

So the lights slope backwards and the pillars as well taking the same line as the stern...  but not sure about the curve back comment.

It could be more pronounced on my model... mine is quite tapered.

 

I am thinking I will finish this mark two version and print it off and see how it looks otherwise it's quite a bit of rework to modify the curves again. It's a very complicated compound shape- partially a sector from a cylinder inclined and rotated but to add further curvature will be interesting to do in blender. And getting the trims to modify onto the shape also problem.

 

Also will keep it as a quarter gallery as the kit piece is one not a badge so while it may or may not be historically accurate im just doing some kit bashing to selected parts of it.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Srenner

[Gregory]

13 hours ago, allanyed said:

 Actually would a 20 gun of 1720 have badges rather than quarter galleries?? 

Here is a contemporary model of a 20 gun ship of 1730.   https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66398

Another from 1715..  https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66367

 

There seems to be enough variation to not rule out quarter galleries.

[allanyed]

9 hours ago, Gregory said:

There seems to be enough variation to not rule out quarter galleries.

I found a few others as well and the quarter galleries seem to be more prevalent than the badges going back as far as 1715. 

9 hours ago, Srenner said:

So the lights slope backwards and the pillars as well taking the same line as the stern...  but not sure about the curve back comment.

It could be more pronounced on my model... mine is quite tapered.

Stern view and side view of a 24 gun that hopefully describes a little better.    In addition, you are lucky as Greyhound was built to the 1719 Establishment and all the scantlings are readily available to help you on your project.

 

[Srenner]

Double planking finished on the Greyhound with the walnut 4x1mm strips. And sanding well underway

 

One question those little holes between the strips what's the best way to fill them for paint finish? I've been collecting the sanding dust and can mix with pva for filler or just use small pieces of plaster potentially or small pieces of walnut? What's the best tried and true method of fixing up these?

[Gregory]

9 hours ago, Srenner said:

What's the best tried and true method of fixing up these?

I would use sanding dust and satin varnish.  White PVA and sanding dust would be a 2nd choice.

[Srenner]

Finally the double planking is finished and I had some problems with the stern. Next model I will twist the double planking up at the stern like real modellers do.... i was following the drawings in the kit but in this case don't. 

 

 

I really like the shellac finish on the walnut so can't decide if this should be painted or not... might just keep going for a while and make a decision before rigging.

 

I'm moving onto the rest of the rails and I'm going to make 3d printed knights heads as the ones in the kit are rubbish. 

And still need to do the quarter galleries.

 

Also photoing your model is really quite hard... need to learn more zbout getting good photos

[allanyed]

6 hours ago, Srenner said:

i was following the drawings in the kit

It is always good to cross reference contemporary based information with any modern instructions.  

 

If this is Greyhound 1720 the guns at the time she was launched would be Borgard pattern with the George I cypher but I am curious to know which pattern they included in the kit.  With your 3D printing skills, making your own of the appropriate pattern should be doable as the STL drawings are readily available. 

 

Allan

 

[Srenner]

While I have been procrastinating about jumping back on blender and doing a heap of different designs like the knights heads, the quarter galleries, a ships bell housing etc I have been having fun with the hatch covers.

 

But word of warning, the kit only provides just enough precut pieces for the grid and I has reduced to piecing last grid by using all the off cuts and sticking them in to the pattern. 

 

The forecastle rail is cut from a flat sheet of mahogany as edge bending 5mm x 1mm walnut into a semi circle was too much. I used black wash to darken the red colour back to more like walnut. All surfaces have had 4 coats of denatured shellac so it looks pretty waxy.

 

The aft deck rails I edge bent some walnut 5x1 by using the clamp, wet with brush and iron technique. It took 3 times before there was enough bend but they are flat and not cracked which is good.

 

I am going to go back to blender now and do those knights heads... 1750 style. The thumb and finger top which is correct at 1720 I think will look dumb in 1/100 scale and also difficult to print.

 

I'm going to add some vertical volutes at the end of the rails printed 3d plastic and painted black.

[Srenner]

I don't get the scale of this model. 1/100 probably means that some things are very small. But that means they look dumb at this level and the detailing is too small to see. As example the 2mm x2mm knights heads. The instructions look bigger more like 3mm x3mm . Do I go with the scale feature or what looks good on the model?

[Quimp Slattery]

22 minutes ago, Srenner said:

Do I go with the scale feature or what looks good on the model?

Surely a question that only you can answer. 
 

Here’s an observation though. The grain of the rail’s wood, magnified by 100 times in length and width, or 10,000 times in area, is definitely not to scale. 🤯

[Srenner]

No your absolutely right... 

[allanyed]

Many kit makers supply walnut-like wood that is very open grained and looks out of scale even at 1:48.    There are more, but these come to mind: Castello box, Swiss pear, bass, and Alaskan cedar are all good choices as they have a tighter grain. 

Allan

[Srenner]

Just a question... gun deck length being 32m on the Greyhound 1720.. is that the distance from the cabins under the forecastle deck to the stern cabins door? To scale that should be 320mm or am I missing something?

[allanyed]

Based on the 1719 Establishment the length on the gun deck was measured from the rabbet of the stem to the rabbet of the stern post.

The Ship builder's Repository of 1788 goes further in describing this as from the aft side of the rabbet of the stem to the forward side of the rabbet of the stern post.   The 1719 Establishment length of the gun deck for a 20 gun ship was 105 feet so pretty much the same as your metric figure.  At scale that is 12.6 inches.  Cabins were never not part of figuring ship measurements.  

Allan

Edited September 13, 2023 by allanyed

[Srenner]

God this is confusing... its the red arrow distance below right? 

[allanyed]

Hard to tell from that resolution, but it looks right Mr. Srenner

Allan

[Srenner]

To be honest... the 3d printing is taking a long time and lots of failures. 

 

However when you get it right it produces amazing results eleven in1/100 scale. There is no way you could carve these volutes in the accuracy you get from a 3d print.

 

The knightsheads are okay but a bit rounded on one edge... I can probably fix that by printing them flat on to the forming table. I will try that next print. 

 

Does anyone know can you get glass encrusted thread or some sort of file approx 0.6mm that you can thread through and clean out the cleats?

[Srenner]

Proud face.. the pintle and brace I made in 1/100 scale very tiny print.  came out in two pieces... I will paint them black and that will bring out the nut details on the flat. The only problem with it each brace will have to be blended separately to fit the hull. Each pintle is the same so just need to print 5 good ones.