Gunnery tools - ramrods, sponges - how were they stored on the spar deck?

[Jose Gonzales]

Hello all! 

I'm building the Revell Constitution, with components kitbashed from the BlueJacket Constitution. My build log is at Finescale.com (https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/170904.aspx).  

 

I want to add the ramrods, sponges, crowbars, and other gunnery tools to my spar deck, but don't know how to do it. Before the recent refits, in which the spar deck bulwarks were lowered, Old Ironsides in Boston had small racks to hold these tools, located on the elevated bulwarks.

 

Since the refits which removed her waist and lowered her bulwarks to the proper level, the racks are gone.

Does anyone know how these tools were stored during her glory years? were there racks underneath the pinrails, or storage bins somewhere on deck?

[popeye2sea]

Most of this gear would just be in the way when not at battle stations and so would probably be stowed below in chests or lockers to be issued out when the ship beat to quarters. Each crew member was listed on the watch, quarter and station bill and knew what position on the gun crew he had. I'm guessing that the correct implement for that position would be issued out to him on his way to the gun.

 

Regards,

Henry

[jud]

Kept ours here, handy and out of the way. Bassac River Vietnam 1967, fire support, bunker in there bothering the PBR's, they quit.

[jud]

[mtaylor]

23 hours ago, popeye2sea said:

Most of this gear would just be in the way when not at battle stations and so would probably be stowed below in chests or lockers to be issued out when the ship beat to quarters. Each crew member was listed on the watch, quarter and station bill and knew what position on the gun crew he had. I'm guessing that the correct implement for that position would be issued out to him on his way to the gun.

 

Regards,

Henry

I'll muse on this also...  wouldn't they have sent just one or two of the gun crew to gather the implements of destruction for their gun?   That way the rest of a given gun crew could be making ready the gun. It would also keep the ladders more clear that way.

[jud]

Keep the tools to work the gun, on the gun, not a problem for those with the ability to hang such things up, secure and out of the way using hooks, straps, line, knots and hitches daily. In the days of sail, space below decks, then, as it is today on the ships that I rode was at a premium, ladders few and space was used for stores needed to sail and maintain the ship and crew for months at a time, Those sailors were the same type of human we have today, so they were capable of storing their tools safely and out of the way on or near their guns out of the way of hundreds of men in a confined space getting to their battle stations. You wonder about the weeks and months with no contact being idle times so be a neat nick and stow such tools below during those times, you forget about the drills and gun exercises that keep men busy and the ship capable of fighting and surviving if needed, those tools were there for training and combat. Keep them on or handy to the gun where they were used. A model depicting ordnance without the tools to operate that ordnance is not finished in the mind of this Old Gunner. 

[mtaylor]

Still thinking about this and in light of what Jud mentioned.   I did see a description of a French vessel where all the tools were rigged to the side of the gun.   How prevalent this was, I can not say.   It is an interesting question though.....  

[jud]

In my second photo, notice the rag tied to the rail behind Hughes.' first loader', There to wipe the sweat out of his eyes and the oil and sweat off his hands, a kind of a tool that most never think about, but curses on anyone who wanted to removed it, there was another for the other loader. Flack jackets became tools when the steam and scalding water came bouncing up off the top of  the water cooler tanks, throw a flack jacket over it and keep on shooting, someone will drag a water hose up and take care of it. If a short boil, could be toped off using another tool, the steel pot had a good water spout built in. Right gun is being cooled off, it's loader is assisting the loading of the left gun, position of the clip and operating lever give it away. Keep what you need on the gun to keep it going.

 

[Lieste]

The specific reference I have for both late C18th French and Mid C19th English practice had the implements for weatherdeck ordnance stowed in chests under cover on the upper deck fore/aft under the castles. Along with similar provision for the boarding weapons where boarders would be mustered. For a spar deck, either a covered chest on the deck, or on the upper deck alongside a hatch would be my expectation.

On beating to action the 6 'numbers' (Captain, No2, Loader, Rammer, Assistant Loader, Assistant Rammer) of the British gun crew would prepare the gun & collect the implements. The static powder boy (1 per pair) and divisional powder man (roughly 1 for each 4 pairs) would collect two cartridges in boxes each from the magazine to be hung in rear of each gun, and kept on hand for distribution, each cartridge loaded to a gun freeing up an empty box to pass down to the magazine for filling and return via the scuttles (later a powder whip). The French procedure was similar with a main crew (divided into halves if fighting both sides) and an auxiliary group for hauling and pointing which served the piece, moving between the two if fighting both sides. Both examples divide the crew to 'the gun and that adjacent' on alternating sides, rather than 'same number on both sides'.

The remainder of the men from the gun crews would aid clearing for action and join with their guns once their assigned task was complete. On the covered decks, where the implements were protected from the elements the major tools were stowed on the carriage or hull side between the guns (competing for space with shot and canister and wads), but smaller pieces such as gun locks, hausses and priming tools and supplies needed to come from the gunnery stores on coming to action anyway.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Lieste

[BANYAN]

A lot of British and European ships in the 19th century had much of the larger bits and bobs such as rammers, sponges, worms, ladles etc stowed in racks attached to the bulwarks; not sure what was done earlier.  However, I have seen some images of these stowed in the overhead for the lower gundecks.

 

Powder cases, slow fuse, lanyards etc were collected from the magazine by the designated number (sometimes a powder monkey' while the gun was being readied by the rest of the crew.  Ready use shot was usually stowed in 'shot garlands' around hatches etc, or on the bulwark.  When action was likely (and the weather permitted), sometimes guns were readied well before action, which then just required them to be 'primed'.  I cannot comment on the practises used in 'Constitution' as I am not familiar with US vessels.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited January 16, 2023 by BANYAN

[Oldsalt1950]

Racks would have still been used, just mounted lower on the bulwark. Storage bins would have been out of the question for a variety of reasons, mostly because there really wasn't any real estate on the deck that was not being used for other ships evolutions besides gunnery. You can see what i mean if you look at the deck from overhead with all the ordinance fully rigged. There isn't much space to put a locker to hold the loading and elevating tools near the ships cannon that would work, add to this the room required to handle lines for the sails, ships boats, anchor , etc. and the bulwark rack makes the most sense. Remember that the guns were manner, loaded and run out long before the first shot was fired then things got real interesting real quick. 

 

Jim

 

[Ian B]

I just laid mine out next to each gun...